Anyone familiar with this black 2007 Z4MC?

[CryoEng]

I'm calling on the collective knowledge of the Z4 forum members to find out more information on a specific 2007 black Z4MC (premium package, black and aluminum interior, nav) that I put a deposit on.

It was leased in NJ (0-24000 miles), then owned in NJ (35000 miles), and Mississippi (42000 miles). The car was then sold from Mobile BMW and exported to Alberta, Canada (where it is now). In spite of the multiple owners I've been able to piece together most of the service history, but I've got a couple of concerns from the CarProof. There was an accident involving a right rear impact in Dec 2010, and a insurance estimate from June 2010 for "undercarriage" for ~$9700. Both of these events are from the 2nd owners time of possession.

The seller (the 2nd Canadian owner) has only had the car for a short time and doesn't know that much about it. I spoke to the shop that did his pre-purchase inspection (Viteks; an independent BMW specialty shop in Calgary) and although he didn't remember the specific car he claimed that any undercarriage damage would have been noted in the inspection.

So now I'm deciding about whether to walk away from my deposit. Anyone know anything more about this car? HELP!

[chickdr]

I wouldn't touch it with a $9,700 estimate for "undercarriage damage". There are too many cars with no stories to take a chance.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by chickdr

I wouldn't touch it with a $9,700 estimate for "undercarriage damage". There are too many cars with no stories to take a chance.

Agreed.

[CryoEng]

Thanks for the advice. I got the CarProof information about the insurance estimate after I left the deposit (the seller's CarFax did not include it).

So now that I've walked away from that deal I'll keep looking for the right Z4MC.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by Z4 Chaser

Thanks for the advice. I got the CarProof information about the insurance estimate after I left the deposit (the seller's CarFax did not include it).

So now that I've walked away from that deal I'll keep looking for the right Z4MC.

Nice, I think you made a great decision.

[inTgr8r]

agreed.
Did you not make your deposit conditional?

[CryoEng]

Not really. He had it mechanically inspected a few months before and I only decided to get the CarProof for the lien search and to ensure there were no leftover issues from the importing of the car into Canada. Finding the insurance estimate was almost an accident. The deposit was mostly so he wouldn't sell it before I could return to Calgary (I live near Edmonton) and purchase the car. The week before I had another Z4MC I was looking at sold on me while I was waiting for the seller to get me some information before I gave him a deposit, so I was a in a little to big a hurry. And sometimes shiny things impair good judgement (Judging by some of the things I see in this forum this may be a common affliction.).

Anyone have a good template for a deposit condition form?

[donoman]

How much was he asking?

[CryoEng]

Asking $30000, agreed on $28000 at the time of deposit (car has 52000 miles). For me it's not low enough to take the chance, and even if it is, the aggravation of problems down the road isn't worth it.

[KevinC]

Wow, if a car with this history can command $28k, my 1-owner, unmolested example must be worth a mint.

Good luck with your search. I presume you're familiar with this site?

http://www.z4mcoupebuyersguide.com/listings

[jophish17]

Man, that site is so out of date. It had promise too

[whatcubed]

Originally Posted by KevinC

Wow, if a car with this history can command $28k, my 1-owner, unmolested example must be worth a mint.

Good luck with your search. I presume you're familiar with this site?

http://www.z4mcoupebuyersguide.com/listings

28,000 canadian is roughly 25,000 usd. That doesn't seem like too bad a price for an '07 with 52k miles. However, when you factor in 2 incidents including one for nearly $10k in undercarriage repairs, I definitely think you made the wise decision to walk away from the car. It is a car built in low numbers, but there's plenty of them out there. Keep looking and you'll find a good one

[donoman]

Probably better that you walked away. These cars can get expensive real fast if something is messed up. When I got my car, I checked that there were no accidents and no paint work. It's usually the only way I'll buy a used car because I don't want to inherit someone else's basketcase.

[jdoublehcubed]

Originally Posted by donoman

Probably better that you walked away. These cars can get expensive real fast if something is messed up. When I got my car, I checked that there were no accidents and no paint work. It's usually the only way I'll buy a used car because I don't want to inherit someone else's basketcase.

I've had my car painted, and having worked with an ultra-high end paint shop, I can tell you 100% that they do better paint work than BMW. Usually they paint Ferraris, Lambos, etc. There are also paint shops that do work that looks like it came from a spray can. If you can find out who did paint work and look into their reputation, it doesn't half to be something to stay away from.

Frame damage, on the other hand, I agree, stay waaayyyyyyyy away from that. There's no way a body shop can take measurements of the precision needed to get back to 100% factory specs.

[The HACK]

I'm going to go "against the grain" and say $9,XXX worth of undercarriage damage isn't significant, depending on what was replaced and what wasn't. There's a ton of small plastic parts that can add up, especially with an insurance claim. If the damage involved either one of the side skirts, to repair it properly involves almost $800 each in parts, pain, and installation labor. If the front bumper is scratch in the process, or the front subframe support bent/dented, that's another $1,000 for the bumper and $500 for the support bracket. If the damage involves suspension? Tack on another $2,000.

It adds up quick, and it could be a relative minor incident involving a pothole. Believe you me, when I ran over a pothole with my E46 323Ci to the tune of $8,000 in damages, I was shocked. It didn't look THAT bad.

If it's a color you like, at a price you're happy with, and the car was properly repaired according to a pre-purchase inspection, I wouldn't hesitate...Because it could be another 6 months before you find another one (or it could be 2 days before you find a BETTER one, it depends with this car).

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by jdoublehcubed

I've had my car painted, and having worked with an ultra-high end paint shop, I can tell you 100% that they do better paint work than BMW. Usually they paint Ferraris, Lambos, etc. There are also paint shops that do work that looks like it came from a spray can. If you can find out who did paint work and look into their reputation, it doesn't half to be something to stay away from.

Frame damage, on the other hand, I agree, stay waaayyyyyyyy away from that. There's no way a body shop can take measurements of the precision needed to get back to 100% factory specs.

Fully concur. Although with frame damage, it'll cost a lot more than $9,xxx to fix. It cost $12,000 a week to rent a frame jig. When frame damage is involved, it will cost at least $15,000 just for the frame work, and that would most likely cause ANY insurance company to salvage the title.

[CryoEng]

Thanks for all of your points of view. The big issue for me is the unknowns. The CarProof reports the insurance estimate and an accident, but no insurance claims. So how was it repaired? Both incidents happened over 25000 miles ago, and none of the service records indicate any strange issues since then (although it did get a wheel alignment at ~42000 miles). If the repairs were relatively straightforward and done well there would be much less risk in purchasing this car. And I guess that’s why I posted in the first place, to find out if someone would recognize and know something more about it.
Out of curiosity I’m going to ask my insurance company if they can find more information than CarProof.

[The HACK]

So the report shows an accident happened, insurance estimated $9,800 worth of damage, and no claim was filed?

This would suggest to me that the damage was "relatively" minor, that the owner took care of the damage him/herself and decided not to involve insurance so their rates will not go up.

Which leads to a BIGGER problem IMO. That means what the insurance company deemed close to $10,000 worth of damage was fixed for a few hundred bucks out of pocket. Stuff like torn covers, dented braces, and others that would likely have been replaced by insurance company was either just pulled off (if it was a plastic cover) or simply left in place. Or say, it was a fender bender, the fender was either reused or non-OE fender used for the repair.

I would actually be far more comfortable buying a car with that report, had the insurance company actually ponied up the $9,800. Knowing that it was involved in an accident with what the insurance company deemed almost $10,000 worth of damage, but was taken care of out of pocket?

Walk away.

[donoman]

Originally Posted by jdoublehcubed

I've had my car painted, and having worked with an ultra-high end paint shop, I can tell you 100% that they do better paint work than BMW. Usually they paint Ferraris, Lambos, etc. There are also paint shops that do work that looks like it came from a spray can. If you can find out who did paint work and look into their reputation, it doesn't half to be something to stay away from.

Paintwork is an easy way to suspect a car has been in an accident. Professional car buyers walk around with paint meters for this purpose. Is it 100% certain that paintwork wasn't done at the exotic shop you worked at? No. For me, it's not worth the risk.

[CryoEng]

Originally Posted by The HACK

So the report shows an accident happened, insurance estimated $9,800 worth of damage, and no claim was filed?

This would suggest to me that the damage was "relatively" minor, that the owner took care of the damage him/herself and decided not to involve insurance so their rates will not go up.

Which leads to a BIGGER problem IMO. That means what the insurance company deemed close to $10,000 worth of damage was fixed for a few hundred bucks out of pocket. Stuff like torn covers, dented braces, and others that would likely have been replaced by insurance company was either just pulled off (if it was a plastic cover) or simply left in place. Or say, it was a fender bender, the fender was either reused or non-OE fender used for the repair.

I would actually be far more comfortable buying a car with that report, had the insurance company actually ponied up the $9,800. Knowing that it was involved in an accident with what the insurance company deemed almost $10,000 worth of damage, but was taken care of out of pocket?

Walk away.

You have done a good job of explaining my thought process when I questioned the unknowns. Without much more information there is too much risk.

[KevinC]

Have you seen this beauty?? You should jump ALL over this! Low miles, extended leather, ZCP wheels.. don't look at the price at the top of the thread, jump to the last post.....

http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1030088

[CryoEng]

I've seen that one and I am tempted (but it is a long way from Alberta). The crazy thing is that I just checked a few of the seller's posts and found this thread:
http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthre...2#post10552272
I'm pretty sure the car in question is the one I looked at in Calgary.