Z4MC S54 VANOS Rebuilt

pal · 10-27-2016, 12:12 PM

It's been a while since I posted here. I moved to the west coast 3 years ago and left the Z4M Coupe at my place in NJ. She only got outings a few times a year when I revisited and most of the time that was on a track The car now has 90K miles on it so I figured some preventative maintenance was in order. Since I have done rod bearings (preventatively) twice on the car, the next was rebuild VANOS and replace the pump driver. All the M3 stories of broken tabs led me to RRT Racing in Sterling, VA. They did the work and put in their updated driver (see pic below). The one that came out of my car actually looked very good; just wear marks on the sides of the tab but no signs of failure.

While there, I also had them replace the crank pulley aka vibration damper for the motor. Again, M3 failures at the 80K-100K mark got me to do this. They were seeing rubber separating from the metal leading to engine failures over time. That looked almost brand new as well. But since my car is 9 years old now and rubber degrades over time as well, this is peace of mind as well.

inTgr8r · 10-27-2016, 12:32 PM

Thanks for posting, that's as interesting piece, is there any other info on it? (don't see it on their web site)
Any advantages over some of the other options out there?

StickMon · 10-27-2016, 12:33 PM

Interesting solution on the hub.
I think TurboToy had some trial and error on welding and material compatibility. This design eliminates that problem.
Did you also do the upper timing chain guide? Mine was toast at about 100 k miles.

XMetal · 10-27-2016, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StickMon

Interesting solution on the hub.
I think TurboToy had some trial and error on welding and material compatibility. This design eliminates that problem.
Did you also do the upper timing chain guide? Mine was toast at about 100 k miles.

Ditto on the upper chain guide. Mine were hanging on a thread at 45K miles

wss4 · 10-27-2016, 08:42 PM

Very interesting solution - looks like a high pressure aluminum die casting. Looks like they machine off the original tabs from a donor hub, is there any additional machining that they do? I presume they use different (longer, different head) bolts as well? Depending on the price, could be a much more cost effective solution for those with a broken tab

pal · 10-27-2016, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wss4

Very interesting solution - looks like a high pressure aluminum die casting. Looks like they machine off the original tabs from a donor hub, is there any additional machining that they do? I presume they use different (longer, different head) bolts as well? Depending on the price, could be a much more cost effective solution for those with a broken tab

All the the above except I don't know if its aluminum and the price is about the same as a new OEM one from what I recall. RRT does not advertise these on their website but when I asked them about rebuilding the VANOS with a new OEM hub, they offered this to me and it seemed like a good solution so I went for it. They have installed these on a few S54s now and yes they use longer bolts.

I don't believe they replaced the upper timing chain guide; I'll ask them if they even looked at its state.

Quote:

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

Any advantages over some of the other options out there?

I like the fact that the tabs are beefy and sized for the holes in the pump. I also like that the piece is a single machined unit.

Beedub · 10-28-2016, 01:58 AM

thats a much better solution imo than the turbo toys unit.... and much nicer looking piece too.....

you old HUB looks fantastic... really healthy s54 their. Really good to see some stories like this to balance the scaremongering

pal · 10-28-2016, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beedub

you old HUB looks fantastic... really healthy s54 their. Really good to see some stories like this to balance the scaremongering

I was surprised too. In theory, if everything is machined perfectly there should be no up-down load on the tabs at all. All the load should be on the sides which are super wide even on the stock tabs.

Beedub · 11-11-2016, 02:47 PM

PAL where can we purchase this hub from... ???

inTgr8r · 11-11-2016, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beedub

PAL where can we purchase this hub from... ???

I went looking for it already.
RRT racing.
http://www.rrtptm.com

They don't show it on the website, so you have to contact them.

pcube · 11-12-2016, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

I went looking for it already.
RRT racing.
http://www.rrtptm.com

They don't show it on the website, so you have to contact them.

Their website seems to be down, or am I the only one having problems with it?

Anyone else purchased the vanos hub yet?

inTgr8r · 11-12-2016, 07:54 AM

Im not having any problem with it.
Their email is sales@_________

pcube · 11-12-2016, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

Im not having any problem with it.
Their email is sales@_________

For some reason I'm being blocked from the website. I guess they don't like foreign visitors

Beedub · 11-14-2016, 02:02 AM

site works fine for me if alit slow..... madness to not have that really nice hub not showing on the website.... unless its not tried and tested and they dont wish to market it yet... considerable work must have gone into making it so not having it available;e to buy via the site speaks volumes to me.....

inTgr8r · 11-14-2016, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beedub

site works fine for me if alit slow..... madness to not have that really nice hub not showing on the website.... unless its not tried and tested and they dont wish to market it yet... considerable work must have gone into making it so not having it available;e to buy via the site speaks volumes to me.....

That would be the thing I'm most interested in.
How many have been installed and for how long?
It looks the business, just would like to know if they've done proper R&D and QC

pcube · 11-16-2016, 04:57 AM

The website still doesn't work for me, but they did reply to my email.

Being priced the same as the Turbo Toy option, not sure how well this compares. RRT ones have tabs which are welded on, while the whole top half of TT ones are cnc machined. What are the pros and cons of each?

My non-expert view is that the TT ones are probably stronger by design... also they've been around for a while with no negative feedback.

DanFromTucson · 11-16-2016, 09:52 AM

I went with the re-machined pump disk from Beisan Systems. Has anyone heard any problems with this solution? It's a lot cheaper than replacing the whole exhaust hub.

inTgr8r · 11-16-2016, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcube

The website still doesn't work for me, but they did reply to my email.

Being priced the same as the Turbo Toy option, not sure how well this compares. RRT ones have tabs which are welded on, while the whole top half of TT ones are cnc machined. What are the pros and cons of each?

My non-expert view is that the TT ones are probably stronger by design... also they've been around for a while with no negative feedback.

Really!
That's a surprise, they don't look to be welded on.
That would be a concern for me.

Daemonblitz · 11-16-2016, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanFromTucson

I went with the re-machined pump disk from Beisan Systems. Has anyone heard any problems with this solution? It's a lot cheaper than replacing the whole exhaust hub.

Beisan redrilled disks are great, they work. I will be doing this repair on my M as well, there is significant play that has developed between the hub tabs and disk. I encourage everyone to take this very seriously and have it done before you have a tab break off. A lot of E46 M3 owners have run into this problem even at very low mileage.

I will be sending my disk and exhaust hub out locally to get machined in the Beisan style, the reason i am sending both is so that the holes in the disk are EXACT with absolute 0 play.

Based on how much your exhaust tabs have "worn down" when you get a beisan disk there may still be a very small amount of play and I want to avoid this.

Beedub · 11-16-2016, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

Really!
That's a surprise, they don't look to be welded on.
That would be a concern for me.

abolsutely no way is this hub now an option for me.... welded on tabs... what a shame such a good designed flawed by this choice, the top piece needs to be a one piece billet CNC.

inTgr8r · 11-16-2016, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daemonblitz

Beisan redrilled disks are great, they work. I will be doing this repair on my M as well, there is significant play that has developed between the hub tabs and disk. I encourage everyone to take this very seriously and have it done before you have a tab break off. A lot of E46 M3 owners have run into this problem even at very low mileage.

I will be sending my disk and exhaust hub out locally to get machined in the Beisan style, the reason i am sending both is so that the holes in the disk are EXACT with absolute 0 play.

Based on how much your exhaust tabs have "worn down" when you get a beisan disk there may still be a very small amount of play and I want to avoid this.

Interested in hearing how it goes.

yousefnjr · 11-16-2016, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daemonblitz

Beisan redrilled disks are great, they work. I will be doing this repair on my M as well, there is significant play that has developed between the hub tabs and disk. I encourage everyone to take this very seriously and have it done before you have a tab break off. A lot of E46 M3 owners have run into this problem even at very low mileage.

I will be sending my disk and exhaust hub out locally to get machined in the Beisan style, the reason i am sending both is so that the holes in the disk are EXACT with absolute 0 play.

Based on how much your exhaust tabs have "worn down" when you get a beisan disk there may still be a very small amount of play and I want to avoid this.

FWIW, my car was a bit under 70k miles when I installed the Beisan disk, and there was hardly any play at all. I think you actually do want a very small amount of play, because if it's totally slip-fit you might have a hard time installing it. 3k rpm vanos rattle completely gone btw

10-27-2016, 12:12 PM	#1
pal Captain 433 Rep 753 Posts Drives: Z4 M Coupe Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Seattle, WA iTrader: (2)	Z4MC S54 VANOS Rebuilt It's been a while since I posted here. I moved to the west coast 3 years ago and left the Z4M Coupe at my place in NJ. She only got outings a few times a year when I revisited and most of the time that was on a track The car now has 90K miles on it so I figured some preventative maintenance was in order. Since I have done rod bearings (preventatively) twice on the car, the next was rebuild VANOS and replace the pump driver. All the M3 stories of broken tabs led me to RRT Racing in Sterling, VA. They did the work and put in their updated driver (see pic below). The one that came out of my car actually looked very good; just wear marks on the sides of the tab but no signs of failure. While there, I also had them replace the crank pulley aka vibration damper for the motor. Again, M3 failures at the 80K-100K mark got me to do this. They were seeing rubber separating from the metal leading to engine failures over time. That looked almost brand new as well. But since my car is 9 years old now and rubber degrades over time as well, this is peace of mind as well.
	Appreciate 3 inTgr8r2425.50 StickMon636.00 KevinM2935.50 Tweet Quote

10-27-2016, 12:32 PM	#2
inTgr8r Lieutenant General 2426 Rep 11,667 Posts Drives: M2 Comp Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Toronto iTrader: (10)	Thanks for posting, that's as interesting piece, is there any other info on it? (don't see it on their web site) Any advantages over some of the other options out there? __________________ '21 M2C Hockenheim Silver '18 718 Cayman S Lava Orange (sold) '13 E92 M3 Santorini Blue (sold) '07 Z4 M Coupe Alpine White (sold)
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10-27-2016, 12:33 PM	#3
StickMon My other car is on Mars 636 Rep 3,124 Posts Drives: 2006 MR Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Lo-Cal iTrader: (1)	Interesting solution on the hub. I think TurboToy had some trial and error on welding and material compatibility. This design eliminates that problem. Did you also do the upper timing chain guide? Mine was toast at about 100 k miles. __________________ Warning: May contain traces of nuts.
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10-27-2016, 08:42 PM	#5
wss4 Private First Class 35 Rep 159 Posts Drives: 2008 Z4 M Coupe Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: San Diego iTrader: (3)	Very interesting solution - looks like a high pressure aluminum die casting. Looks like they machine off the original tabs from a donor hub, is there any additional machining that they do? I presume they use different (longer, different head) bolts as well? Depending on the price, could be a much more cost effective solution for those with a broken tab
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10-28-2016, 01:58 AM	#7
Beedub Major General 423 Rep 5,327 Posts Drives: 2007 Z4 M roadster vt2-500 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	thats a much better solution imo than the turbo toys unit.... and much nicer looking piece too..... you old HUB looks fantastic... really healthy s54 their. Really good to see some stories like this to balance the scaremongering __________________ Z4MR VT2 - Clubsport build. Multi award winning Detailing \| Wrap \| PPF specialists UK based - www.topwrapz.com
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11-11-2016, 02:47 PM	#9
Beedub Major General 423 Rep 5,327 Posts Drives: 2007 Z4 M roadster vt2-500 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	PAL where can we purchase this hub from... ??? __________________ Z4MR VT2 - Clubsport build. Multi award winning Detailing \| Wrap \| PPF specialists UK based - www.topwrapz.com
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11-12-2016, 07:54 AM	#12
inTgr8r Lieutenant General 2426 Rep 11,667 Posts Drives: M2 Comp Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Toronto iTrader: (10)	Im not having any problem with it. Their email is sales@_________ __________________ '21 M2C Hockenheim Silver '18 718 Cayman S Lava Orange (sold) '13 E92 M3 Santorini Blue (sold) '07 Z4 M Coupe Alpine White (sold)
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11-14-2016, 02:02 AM	#14
Beedub Major General 423 Rep 5,327 Posts Drives: 2007 Z4 M roadster vt2-500 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	site works fine for me if alit slow..... madness to not have that really nice hub not showing on the website.... unless its not tried and tested and they dont wish to market it yet... considerable work must have gone into making it so not having it available;e to buy via the site speaks volumes to me..... __________________ Z4MR VT2 - Clubsport build. Multi award winning Detailing \| Wrap \| PPF specialists UK based - www.topwrapz.com
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11-16-2016, 04:57 AM	#16
pcube Private First Class 58 Rep 199 Posts Drives: Z4MC, G20 320i Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Singapore iTrader: (0)	The website still doesn't work for me, but they did reply to my email. Being priced the same as the Turbo Toy option, not sure how well this compares. RRT ones have tabs which are welded on, while the whole top half of TT ones are cnc machined. What are the pros and cons of each? My non-expert view is that the TT ones are probably stronger by design... also they've been around for a while with no negative feedback.
	Appreciate 1 inTgr8r2425.50 Quote

11-16-2016, 09:52 AM	#17
DanFromTucson Private First Class 10 Rep 195 Posts Drives: Z4 M Coupe Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Austin, TX iTrader: (0)	I went with the re-machined pump disk from Beisan Systems. Has anyone heard any problems with this solution? It's a lot cheaper than replacing the whole exhaust hub.
	Appreciate 0 Quote