DSC OFF

[Mueller944s2]

How many of you drive with that DSC garbage off on a regular basis? I had never realized that it was always on until last night, it's no wonder I couldn't fishtail the thing! It's staying off from now on! What do yall think about that? How often do you slide the car?

[Kgolf31]

DSC comes off when I'm autocrossing or track. No where else unless I'm driving back roads I know well.

Sorry, I don't risk it with DSC off on local roads. I'm not like other idiots who try to slide on public roads.

I don't ever slide the car intentionally either.

[3002 tii]

Leave off only on track, and that's only after I'm comfortable with the layout. Leave it on for public roads, may need it that one time the roads are too slick. And to be honest, to "benefit" from turning it off on public roads means I'm probably driving like a d*ck, which I try not to do.

[jophish17]

In before pics of your car in a guardrail

These things can slip out pretty easily depending on the tires, road surface, conditions etc

[DataStream18]

To and from work i keep it on and shift 1-3-5 just b/c its long stretches of road and very little stop and go. On the weekends its usually off.

[Mueller944s2]

Originally Posted by jophish17

In before pics of your car in a guardrail

These things can slip out pretty easily depending on the tires, road surface, conditions etc

I thought the system was just an extra handicap but it sounds like the car was designed around it, does that sound correct? I was hoping to drive it like I drive the Porsches, but if it doesn't like that then I guess I'll just drive it gentle

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by Mueller944s2

I thought the system was just an extra handicap but it sounds like the car was designed around it, does that sound correct? I was hoping to drive it like I drive the Porsches, but if it doesn't like that then I guess I'll just drive it gentle

It's traction control. Most of all cars have it now. I don't know what you mean by "design around it"?

BTW - Trying to slide a car with an open diff isn't going to work well.

Happy 1 wheel spins

[Mueller944s2]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

It's traction control. Most of all cars have it now. I don't know what you mean by "design around it"?

BTW - Trying to slide a car with an open diff isn't going to work well.

Happy 1 wheel spins

I meant like it was intended to stay on and not be turned off? All 3 Porsches have open diffs and no traction control and they handle it perfectly. Why wouldn't the BMW be able to??

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by Mueller944s2

I meant like it was intended to stay on and not be turned off? All 3 Porsches have open diffs and no traction control and they handle it perfectly. Why wouldn't the BMW be able to??

If it was intended to stay on, you wouldn't have a way to turn it off

Open diffs just suck. You can't properly power down in a turn.

[zubydafa]

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by Mueller944s2

I meant like it was intended to stay on and not be turned off? All 3 Porsches have open diffs and no traction control and they handle it perfectly. Why wouldn't the BMW be able to??

I don't think you're driving the ///M version of the Z4, correct?

I know less about the non-M version, but I believe "DSC" has three modes on the non-M, unlike the M which is simply on and off. One is on. The second is where traction control is off (which means the car won't cut power when the rear wheel spin) but stability control is still on (car will brake if it senses you're going to understeer into a tree for example). The third is everything off. Recommend consulting the manual for the various modes.

From my perspective, the car isn't designed around the electronic safety measures, these are simply modern safety devices and systems that customers (and now regulations) require. Recent MY Porsche cars have these systems as well; your MY90 Porsche does not as it's prior to the advent of these systems. The Z4 isn't designed around it, it's simply standard equipment.

You're going to get a reaction from most folks on this site about running with DSC off on the road, and kicking out the rear end. Lots of track and AutoX enthusiasts here. We'll happily power oversteer with DSC off when it helps our times or we want to have some fun in a controlled environment--but driving at 9 and 10 10ths on public roads is going to generally be frowned upon.

It's not my place to tell you how to drive. I can simply say that for me I find there are too many unpredictable variables (other cars, road conditions, people, animals) on the road for me to drive the car in a manner I'd do in an AutoX or on the track. YMMD.

[Mueller944s2]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

If it was intended to stay on, you wouldn't have a way to turn it off

Open diffs just suck. You can't properly power down in a turn.

Haha you raise a good point, there's a button for a reason! I tend to think open diffs are more fun, but these cars are 22, 26, and 37 years old so older technology, but they have so much weight over the rear wheels.

That pic is priceless!

[Huz-Z]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

I don't think you're driving the ///M version of the Z4, correct?

I know less about the non-M version, but I believe "DSC" has three modes on the non-M, unlike the M which is simply on and off. One is on. The second is where traction control is off (which means the car won't cut power when the rear wheel spin) but stability control is still on (car will brake if it senses you're going to understeer into a tree for example). The third is everything off. Recommend consulting the manual for the various modes.

From my perspective, the car isn't designed around the electronic safety measures, these are simply modern safety devices and systems that customers (and now regulations) require. Recent MY Porsche cars have these systems as well; your MY90 Porsche does not as it's prior to the advent of these systems. The Z4 isn't designed around it, it's simply standard equipment.

You're going to get a reaction from most folks on this site about running with DSC off on the road, and kicking out the rear end. Lots of track and AutoX enthusiasts here. We'll happily power oversteer with DSC off when it helps our times or we want to have some fun in a controlled environment--but driving at 9 and 10 10ths on public roads is going to generally be frowned upon.

It's not my place to tell you how to drive. I can simply say that for me I find there are too many unpredictable variables (other cars, road conditions, people, animals) on the road for me to drive the car in a manner I'd do in an AutoX or on the track. YMMD.

I kicked the back end of my Z4 out one day shortly after I got it, exiting a McDonalds parking lot in busy traffic with my kid aboard. And all the nannies were engaged, nothing turned off. I was terrified that I would hit something, for the reasons Finnegan rightly mentions. Although for weeks after, my son was urging me for a repeat performance.

If anyone has that hard cover book handy that talks about the initial design of the Z4, I think it mentions at one point about how the DSC and DTC functions were set up to enhance the car's handling under normal usage conditions. While safety of the car is a big factor, there is also handling optimization etc. But I could be wrong on that - I don't have a copy nearby to look at.

[txz4]

I found the z4 was FAR more squirrely than the M is with traction on. If weather is great, DSC off. If the weather is wet at all i keep it on. I find it drives a little nicer without it on, for my taste at least. In my z4 i kept it on all the time. The car just wanted to rotate too much, but not in a way i enjoy.

[Shipkiller]

Page 54 of 'BMW Z4: Design, Development And Production by David Lightfoot'

[zubydafa]

I wish we had an M track mode like in the ZCP

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by zubydafa

I wish we had an M track mode like in the ZCP

I've driven multiple ZCPs on track. The MZ4 Coupe's normal DSC ON mode is far closer to the ZCP's M Track Mode than any DSC equipped car built prior to 2006.

The DSC on the MZ4 Coupe will allow you up anywhere between 5-10º of additional slip angle before it tries to reign you in. It's far more advanced than the non competition E46 M3's DSC and it is certainly on-par with the ZCP's DSC if you ask me.

[strokeZ]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

I know less about the non-M version, but I believe "DSC" has three modes on the non-M, unlike the M which is simply on and off. One is on. The second is where traction control is off (which means the car won't cut power when the rear wheel spin) but stability control is still on (car will brake if it senses you're going to understeer into a tree for example). The third is everything off. Recommend consulting the manual for the various modes.
YMMD.

Right you are sir! Unlike an M car the full active electrics on a NON M (i.e. mode 1) is terribly annoying and intrusive. Then again I have had experience with zero electronics on a slick spot on the road (i.e. Mode 3) and that isn't fun either. I find running with traction off and stability on (i.e. Mode 2) is the best compromise between fun and safety.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by The HACK

I've driven multiple ZCPs on track. The MZ4 Coupe's normal DSC ON mode is far closer to the ZCP's M Track Mode than any DSC equipped car built prior to 2006.

The DSC on the MZ4 Coupe will allow you up anywhere between 5-10º of additional slip angle before it tries to reign you in. It's far more advanced than the non competition E46 M3's DSC and it is certainly on-par with the ZCP's DSC if you ask me.

I agree. Taking the E92 M3 and 1M with M Track Mode, it's exactly the same IMO.

It allows enough slip angle with PROPER driving before it kicks in and corrects. It will intervene with the gas and brake if you try to hammer it out of a turn too early (just like the M Track Mode).

[pokeybritches]

I keep the non-M in DTC mode for safety reasons. I told myself I would never be that person that pulled into traffic and didn't go anywhere... then one day the car cut torque for an eternity as I watched cars behind me swell in my rear view mirror. Never again. DTC mode allows a reasonable amount of wheel slip and a shorter duration of intrusion, though I wish there was a sport mode with even less intervention.

[johanness]

Sun = off
Rain = on

[Finnegan]

Sounds like the Z4 (2.5, 3.0) were, as the OP thought, and Huz and Ship noted, designed around the DSC and DTC functions. M seems to have been too, but with some differences (owning to suspension, differential, and power levels.)

It also sounds like "mode 2" (DTC) is the place to be with the non-M version of the car for both safety and fun reasons if road conditions warrant (as Pokey and strokeZ points out). Probably pros and cons there too. Seems like that mode is more equivalent to running DSC on in the M, since, like The Hack says, you've got quite a bit of slip angle to play with in the M even with DSC on.

Quite a good discussion here, and it clarified some differences in the electronics between Z4 models for me. Set-up (DSC on/off) between the two certainly are not equivalent.