More lead than a fishing weight. (updated with break in results)

[SaltyNC]

Originally Posted by elerner61

For a 3K mile duration, what levels of lead would be acceptable?

I'm no expert on this, so guys and gals, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds good when I talk to myself.

I had similar high lead readings. So, I did another shorter oil change cycle, and my lead dropped from the 40's to the teens. That probably just indicates the lead is wearing away on a bearing or multiple bearings and while some of the reduction in ppm of lead could be attributed to a shorter change interval, it is probably just as likely that the wear point on the bearing has had the lead removed and now it's into the copper, so lead levels may continue to drop or remain low after a certain point. A trend over time is more important than a particular reading. If we have lead at something like: 3, 5, 5, 40, 14, 5, 5. I would say we had an event where a bearing made metal on metal contact sometime before oil change #4 was performed, we had continued wear before oil change #5, and now all lead has been worn in the spot that was making contact. Now in oil changes #6 and #7, we may have good numbers, but it doesn't mean all is well. It may just mean the top layer of the bearing(s) is completely removed where it was wearing.

I will be doing another oil change at 3K mile interval, and I will be looking for 3-5 on lead, but more importantly, I'll be looking for rising copper. I think we're taking a risk by even driving the car after the 40+ lead reading. I'm driving mine below 4500 RPM until I get everything in for the bearing job which is happening soon.

All that to say, I don't think a low lead reading after a high lead reading is necessarily a good thing.

And to really get the wheels turning in the ol' noggin', what would cause a sudden spike in lead? Why would the first 4, 5, 10 oil readings be normal, then a sudden huge spike. Why the wear all of a sudden if driving style and oil change interval remained constant? Hmmm. I've asked myself this. The only explanation I can think of is that the Techron did play a role. My explanation is that the bearings have been wearing away lead over the life of the engine from time to time (cold start, high RPM, whatever), and the Techron flushed it all from the engine. I just have a hard time imagining that first oil change was rod riding on oil, second oil change was rod riding on oil, third oil change was rod riding on oil, fourth oil change metal on metal contact on rod bearing and scrapes off lead layer nearly down to the copper. What would cause such an event? Because I knew I had vanos issues, I never exceeded 6000 RPM. I usually am below 4500. I always warm up completely before any spirited driving and even then, it isn't that spirited, no hard launches, yet my lead spiked recently. What changed? What caused the spike? It makes no sense to me, unless it was the Techron flushing lead that had been wearing for many thousands of miles.

I've talked too much.

Salty

[StickMon]

I've wondered the same thing. Mine suddenly jumped from 5-8 up to 14 with no change in driving habit, gas, or oil.

[elerner61]

Salty, thanks for the in-depth post. That sounds like it took about....two beers to write.

If your theory on "wearing through the lead and into the copper now" holds true, then if I see my lead numbers drop after 3k Miles I would see a corresponding rise in my Copper, which is still rock solid at 3ppm.

"Tune in next time folks...." see you in 3K

[steffenme1]

Last update:

Just got the results from my 1,200 mile break in period. Things look significantly better than before, thanks for all for the DIY's, advice, and general knowledge this forum shares so freely.

[XMetal]

Salty,
Your logic makes perfect sense. The only thing is that copper never went up at all on the strings of Blackstone reports that I got on mine even when a few of the bearings are already into copper - I don't know how to explain that and neither could Blackstone.

I don't see how Techron could have flush anything into your engine oil as it should all stayed in the combustion chamber. The only thing that I see Techron can contribute to elevated lead readings is if Techron itself contain some lead and some of it got into the engine oil (blowby)?

Originally Posted by SaltyNC

I'm no expert on this, so guys and gals, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds good when I talk to myself.

I had similar high lead readings. So, I did another shorter oil change cycle, and my lead dropped from the 40's to the teens. That probably just indicates the lead is wearing away on a bearing or multiple bearings and while some of the reduction in ppm of lead could be attributed to a shorter change interval, it is probably just as likely that the wear point on the bearing has had the lead removed and now it's into the copper, so lead levels may continue to drop or remain low after a certain point. A trend over time is more important than a particular reading. If we have lead at something like: 3, 5, 5, 40, 14, 5, 5. I would say we had an event where a bearing made metal on metal contact sometime before oil change #4 was performed, we had continued wear before oil change #5, and now all lead has been worn in the spot that was making contact. Now in oil changes #6 and #7, we may have good numbers, but it doesn't mean all is well. It may just mean the top layer of the bearing(s) is completely removed where it was wearing.

I will be doing another oil change at 3K mile interval, and I will be looking for 3-5 on lead, but more importantly, I'll be looking for rising copper. I think we're taking a risk by even driving the car after the 40+ lead reading. I'm driving mine below 4500 RPM until I get everything in for the bearing job which is happening soon.

All that to say, I don't think a low lead reading after a high lead reading is necessarily a good thing.

And to really get the wheels turning in the ol' noggin', what would cause a sudden spike in lead? Why would the first 4, 5, 10 oil readings be normal, then a sudden huge spike. Why the wear all of a sudden if driving style and oil change interval remained constant? Hmmm. I've asked myself this. The only explanation I can think of is that the Techron did play a role. My explanation is that the bearings have been wearing away lead over the life of the engine from time to time (cold start, high RPM, whatever), and the Techron flushed it all from the engine. I just have a hard time imagining that first oil change was rod riding on oil, second oil change was rod riding on oil, third oil change was rod riding on oil, fourth oil change metal on metal contact on rod bearing and scrapes off lead layer nearly down to the copper. What would cause such an event? Because I knew I had vanos issues, I never exceeded 6000 RPM. I usually am below 4500. I always warm up completely before any spirited driving and even then, it isn't that spirited, no hard launches, yet my lead spiked recently. What changed? What caused the spike? It makes no sense to me, unless it was the Techron flushing lead that had been wearing for many thousands of miles.

I've talked too much.

Salty