Help with coilover choice

PrinceMiro · 06-17-2012, 07:30 PM

I need to change my suspension system and have decided to get coilovers. I'm torn between 2 options:

(1) Megan Racing coilovers which are about $900; OR
(2) KW V2's which are about $1,600.

I won't consider the H&R coilovers because they cost $1,200 and I'd rather spend an extra $400 for something with superior quality.

The difference in price between the options is $700. My question is: is it really worth it? I'll probably track the car once in my life, but I drive aggressively on a daily basis. Will the MR's do the job or are the V2's noticeably better?

pokeybritches · 06-17-2012, 11:13 PM

Hack made a post about the quality of components being the ultimate factor in cost, and there's no cheap way around it. You might find some info on other forums about long-term durability on some of the other MR models (I couldn't tell you either way). FWIW someone on here was selling a set in the classifieds for a while.

A few questions:

1. Do you have the OEM sport suspension?

2. Why are you set on changing the springs as well as the shocks?

3. What has swayed you to coilovers versus a spring/shock combo?

For the most part, linear springs are better on the track and progressive springs are better on the street, but this isn't always true and many would argue the opposite. I don't know what the MR utilize, but the KW's are progressive rate springs and may be considered too soft on the track. Given the choice, I would go with the KW V2's. Have you looked at the KW V1's?

johanness · 06-18-2012, 04:00 AM

Maybe place this question in the "suspension" sub-forum for more responses

PrinceMiro · 06-18-2012, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokeybritches

Hack made a post about the quality of components being the ultimate factor in cost, and there's no cheap way around it. You might find some info on other forums about long-term durability on some of the other MR models (I couldn't tell you either way). FWIW someone on here was selling a set in the classifieds for a while.

A few questions:

1. Do you have the OEM sport suspension?

2. Why are you set on changing the springs as well as the shocks?

3. What has swayed you to coilovers versus a spring/shock combo?

For the most part, linear springs are better on the track and progressive springs are better on the street, but this isn't always true and many would argue the opposite. I don't know what the MR utilize, but the KW's are progressive rate springs and may be considered too soft on the track. Given the choice, I would go with the KW V2's. Have you looked at the KW V1's?

I want to be able to control damping. Something I can't do with konis+eibachs or V1s. I don't have sports suspension. Just the base roadster suspension.

3002 tii · 06-18-2012, 07:37 AM

I would stay away from MR at all costs. I mean if MR gets a bad rep among the Honda guys, then...

pokeybritches · 06-18-2012, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrinceMiro

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokeybritches

Hack made a post about the quality of components being the ultimate factor in cost, and there's no cheap way around it. You might find some info on other forums about long-term durability on some of the other MR models (I couldn't tell you either way). FWIW someone on here was selling a set in the classifieds for a while.

A few questions:

1. Do you have the OEM sport suspension?

2. Why are you set on changing the springs as well as the shocks?

3. What has swayed you to coilovers versus a spring/shock combo?

For the most part, linear springs are better on the track and progressive springs are better on the street, but this isn't always true and many would argue the opposite. I don't know what the MR utilize, but the KW's are progressive rate springs and may be considered too soft on the track. Given the choice, I would go with the KW V2's. Have you looked at the KW V1's?

I want to be able to control damping. Something I can't do with konis+eibachs or V1s. I don't have sports suspension. Just the base roadster suspension.

You can control damping with the Koni externally adjustable shocks from TC Kline. I have them on my 3.0i with the OEM sport springs.

PrinceMiro · 06-18-2012, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokeybritches

You can control damping with the Koni externally adjustable shocks from TC Kline. I have them on my 3.0i with the OEM sport springs.

The yellow Konis???

cervasa · 06-18-2012, 06:52 PM

MR's are junk....i wouldnt even put them on a car i hated

PrinceMiro · 06-18-2012, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cervasa

MR's are junk....i wouldnt even put them on a car i hated

Lol ok. So MRs are out of the picture. But now I'm considering Konis+Eibach pro. Half the price of KW V2's and suits my needs.

pokeybritches · 06-18-2012, 11:22 PM

The Konis from TC Kline are externally adjustable... which is a huge plus. To my knowledge, the standard Koni yellows are not externally adjustable front and rear. You have to purchase them from TC Kline. If you do go with Konis, TC Kline also has a coilover conversion kit.

IMHO, a spring is a mechanical device that should be dialed in for its intended use. It's a sliding scale- if you're increasing something, you're giving up something else. Once it's optimized, there's nowhere to go. Other than component quality, a more expensive system just adds further means of optimization.

On my 3.0i, I went with the externally adjustable Koni shocks to replace my worn OEM shocks. I kept the OEM sport springs. I didn't want to reduce suspension travel via lowering, and I feel like I have just the right amount of ground clearance with the OEM sport package. I avoided going with firmer springs since my car is solely street-driven, and I don't want it skipping over mid-corner bumps. Springs that are too firm will beat up the car, and parts of the interior will start to rattle that you never knew could rattle.

Firmer springs are less forgiving. You'll experience less body roll and give up a bit of the progressiveness of a softer setup. Ultimate grip on smooth roads will be higher with firmer springs, but hit a bump and you'll lose more traction (and maybe even have a wheel go airborne which nets 0 traction). A higher speed with more grip but less forgiveness necessitates caution. On an autocross course, the soft OEM springs may be considered sloppy, but on public roads with potholes and variations in pavement that can throw a car off... I'd say stick with the softest setup possible that gets the job done.

pokeybritches · 06-18-2012, 11:25 PM

One more thing- I don't think the OEM springs are perfectly optimized for the car. I think there are better options out there, but I'm satisfied enough to spend my money elsewhere. Maybe one day...

PrinceMiro · 06-19-2012, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokeybritches

One more thing- I don't think the OEM springs are perfectly optimized for the car. I think there are better options out there, but I'm satisfied enough to spend my money elsewhere. Maybe one day...

You forget that I don't have sport springs.

PrinceMiro · 06-19-2012, 09:10 AM

Ok I did some research and found out that the only difference between the Koni yellows and the TC Kline Konis is the external adjustability for the rear shocks.

Koni Yellows: Externally adjustable front struts. Rear shocks are adjustable but you have to uninstall them first.
TC Kline Konis: Everything is externally adjustable.

pokeybritches · 06-19-2012, 10:46 AM

Sounds right. I glossed over where you mentioned you have the standard suspension. AFAIK H&R, Eibach, Dinan, and Bavauto all make progressive rate springs for the Z4. Bavauto are on sale, but I don't know anything about them.

indohan · 06-23-2012, 12:20 PM

What are the coils for?
H&R coils are great too, just not meant for tracks.

l4zy · 06-23-2012, 02:10 PM

your research sounds pretty dead on as far as shock adjustability.

here is a question to consider, do you want ride height adjustments? i swapped springs 3 times on my e46 trying to get the right ride height. if you think you will want to dial in ride height i suggest doing yourself a favor and getting the kw v2's or some other coilover rather than going with spring and strut/shock combos.

oh and as you have already gathered dont bother with megan racing. the owner of megan doesnt even use megan products...lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by indohan

What are the coils for?
H&R coils are great too, just not meant for tracks.

im kinda confused, how can you ask a question like that and then give advice on it?

indohan · 06-23-2012, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by l4zy

im kinda confused, how can you ask a question like that and then give advice on it?

OP says he wouldn't get H&R because of its alleged less than "superior quality" for $400 less.
Just explaining that H&R has excellent quality.
As the question, it was asked so we can give him a better advise.

PrinceMiro · 06-25-2012, 08:53 AM

I want the springs so I can lower the car (lower CoG). Not too low though because I live in the armpit of America (NJ) and the roads SUCK here. The H&R's drop the car lower than the Eibach Pros. I honest'y doubt I'll be tracking the car more than once EVER. So, I think the most cost-effective choice is the Koni Yellow + Eibach Pro setup. I don't need external adjustability for the rear shocks. I mean, how often will I be changing the damping? By cost-effective, I mean $800 less than KW V2s

jrainlay · 06-26-2012, 05:01 AM

H&R coil overs have adjustable ride height and just about everything I've read about them on various forums has been favorable.

3002 tii · 07-06-2012, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrinceMiro

I want the springs so I can lower the car (lower CoG). Not too low though because I live in the armpit of America (NJ) and the roads SUCK here. The H&R's drop the car lower than the Eibach Pros. I honest'y doubt I'll be tracking the car more than once EVER. So, I think the most cost-effective choice is the Koni Yellow + Eibach Pro setup. I don't need external adjustability for the rear shocks. I mean, how often will I be changing the damping? By cost-effective, I mean $800 less than KW V2s

You're probably right about not seeing track time since no local places allow verts without a roll bar. Only track near you that allows verts is Summit and even then some clubs won't let you run (ie NJ CCA). You should just get H&R's, has all features you want at a good price point.

KevinC · 07-06-2012, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indohan

OP says he wouldn't get H&R because of its alleged less than "superior quality" for $400 less.
Just explaining that H&R has excellent quality.

+1

H&R cup kits have H&R springs + Koni Yellows, painted metallic silver/blue, with an H&R sticker on them, but "Koni" and "made in Holland" still stamped on them, just like the ones Koni sells. External adjustment knob is normal Koni-logo'd knob too. Allegedly custom-valved for each application to H&R spec. Those kits are very inexpensive for what you get, and an overall great value.

Years ago a buddy who sells H&R products to the VW aftermarket told me that their coilover dampers are made by Bilstein. Again, not exactly low-quality stuff there either.

PrinceMiro · 07-06-2012, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubbedown

You're probably right about not seeing track time since no local places allow verts without a roll bar. Only track near you that allows verts is Summit and even then some clubs won't let you run (ie NJ CCA). You should just get H&R's, has all features you want at a good price point.

So do you think the H&R Coilover quality justifies spending an extra $400 above the price of the Koni Yellow+Eibach Pro setup?

06-17-2012, 07:30 PM	#1
PrinceMiro Lieutenant 42 Rep 407 Posts Drives: z4 3.0i Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: CNJ iTrader: (3)	Help with coilover choice I need to change my suspension system and have decided to get coilovers. I'm torn between 2 options: (1) Megan Racing coilovers which are about $900; OR (2) KW V2's which are about $1,600. I won't consider the H&R coilovers because they cost $1,200 and I'd rather spend an extra $400 for something with superior quality. The difference in price between the options is $700. My question is: is it really worth it? I'll probably track the car once in my life, but I drive aggressively on a daily basis. Will the MR's do the job or are the V2's noticeably better?
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06-17-2012, 11:13 PM	#2
pokeybritches Colonel 479 Rep 2,782 Posts Drives: ESS/G-Power Z4M, VF Z4, 996tt Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (12) Garage List 2006 BMW Z4M [10.00] 2006 BMW Z4M [8.50] 2003 BMW Z4 3.0i [9.00]	Hack made a post about the quality of components being the ultimate factor in cost, and there's no cheap way around it. You might find some info on other forums about long-term durability on some of the other MR models (I couldn't tell you either way). FWIW someone on here was selling a set in the classifieds for a while. A few questions: 1. Do you have the OEM sport suspension? 2. Why are you set on changing the springs as well as the shocks? 3. What has swayed you to coilovers versus a spring/shock combo? For the most part, linear springs are better on the track and progressive springs are better on the street, but this isn't always true and many would argue the opposite. I don't know what the MR utilize, but the KW's are progressive rate springs and may be considered too soft on the track. Given the choice, I would go with the KW V2's. Have you looked at the KW V1's? __________________ VF Engineering Z4 3.0i, ESS Z4M, G-Power Z4M, 996 Turbo
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06-18-2012, 04:00 AM	#3
johanness Banned 56 Rep 1,739 Posts Drives: 2008 Z4MC Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Seattle, Vancouver iTrader: (3) Garage List 2008 BMW Z4M COUPE [7.00] 2012 BMW X1 xDrive 28i [9.00]	Maybe place this question in the "suspension" sub-forum for more responses
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06-18-2012, 07:37 AM	#5
3002 tii Lieutenant General 2285 Rep 12,565 Posts Drives: Z4 M, X5, GX460 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: CT iTrader: (99) Garage List F15 X5 xDrive35i [8.75] E86 Z4 M [10.00] F10 550i (Retired) [9.17] F25 X3 xDrive35i (R ... [9.43] E82 135is (Retired) [9.50] E85 Z4 M (Retired) [9.41] E90 328i xDrive (Re ... [9.25] E86 Z4 3.0si (Retired) [9.24]	I would stay away from MR at all costs. I mean if MR gets a bad rep among the Honda guys, then... __________________ Follow for latest mods
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06-18-2012, 06:52 PM	#8
cervasa Private 3 Rep 58 Posts Drives: 04 Z4 3.0 6spd Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: delaware iTrader: (1)	MR's are junk....i wouldnt even put them on a car i hated
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06-18-2012, 11:22 PM	#10
pokeybritches Colonel 479 Rep 2,782 Posts Drives: ESS/G-Power Z4M, VF Z4, 996tt Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (12) Garage List 2006 BMW Z4M [10.00] 2006 BMW Z4M [8.50] 2003 BMW Z4 3.0i [9.00]	The Konis from TC Kline are externally adjustable... which is a huge plus. To my knowledge, the standard Koni yellows are not externally adjustable front and rear. You have to purchase them from TC Kline. If you do go with Konis, TC Kline also has a coilover conversion kit. IMHO, a spring is a mechanical device that should be dialed in for its intended use. It's a sliding scale- if you're increasing something, you're giving up something else. Once it's optimized, there's nowhere to go. Other than component quality, a more expensive system just adds further means of optimization. On my 3.0i, I went with the externally adjustable Koni shocks to replace my worn OEM shocks. I kept the OEM sport springs. I didn't want to reduce suspension travel via lowering, and I feel like I have just the right amount of ground clearance with the OEM sport package. I avoided going with firmer springs since my car is solely street-driven, and I don't want it skipping over mid-corner bumps. Springs that are too firm will beat up the car, and parts of the interior will start to rattle that you never knew could rattle. Firmer springs are less forgiving. You'll experience less body roll and give up a bit of the progressiveness of a softer setup. Ultimate grip on smooth roads will be higher with firmer springs, but hit a bump and you'll lose more traction (and maybe even have a wheel go airborne which nets 0 traction). A higher speed with more grip but less forgiveness necessitates caution. On an autocross course, the soft OEM springs may be considered sloppy, but on public roads with potholes and variations in pavement that can throw a car off... I'd say stick with the softest setup possible that gets the job done. __________________ VF Engineering Z4 3.0i, ESS Z4M, G-Power Z4M, 996 Turbo
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06-18-2012, 11:25 PM	#11
pokeybritches Colonel 479 Rep 2,782 Posts Drives: ESS/G-Power Z4M, VF Z4, 996tt Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (12) Garage List 2006 BMW Z4M [10.00] 2006 BMW Z4M [8.50] 2003 BMW Z4 3.0i [9.00]	One more thing- I don't think the OEM springs are perfectly optimized for the car. I think there are better options out there, but I'm satisfied enough to spend my money elsewhere. Maybe one day... __________________ VF Engineering Z4 3.0i, ESS Z4M, G-Power Z4M, 996 Turbo
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06-19-2012, 09:10 AM	#13
PrinceMiro Lieutenant 42 Rep 407 Posts Drives: z4 3.0i Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: CNJ iTrader: (3)	Ok I did some research and found out that the only difference between the Koni yellows and the TC Kline Konis is the external adjustability for the rear shocks. Koni Yellows: Externally adjustable front struts. Rear shocks are adjustable but you have to uninstall them first. TC Kline Konis: Everything is externally adjustable.
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06-19-2012, 10:46 AM	#14
pokeybritches Colonel 479 Rep 2,782 Posts Drives: ESS/G-Power Z4M, VF Z4, 996tt Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (12) Garage List 2006 BMW Z4M [10.00] 2006 BMW Z4M [8.50] 2003 BMW Z4 3.0i [9.00]	Sounds right. I glossed over where you mentioned you have the standard suspension. AFAIK H&R, Eibach, Dinan, and Bavauto all make progressive rate springs for the Z4. Bavauto are on sale, but I don't know anything about them. __________________ VF Engineering Z4 3.0i, ESS Z4M, G-Power Z4M, 996 Turbo
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06-23-2012, 12:20 PM	#15
indohan ///MFEST DARK KNIGHT 2 Rep 178 Posts Drives: JDM Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Los Angeles, CA iTrader: (1)	What are the coils for? H&R coils are great too, just not meant for tracks. __________________
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06-25-2012, 08:53 AM	#18
PrinceMiro Lieutenant 42 Rep 407 Posts Drives: z4 3.0i Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: CNJ iTrader: (3)	I want the springs so I can lower the car (lower CoG). Not too low though because I live in the armpit of America (NJ) and the roads SUCK here. The H&R's drop the car lower than the Eibach Pros. I honest'y doubt I'll be tracking the car more than once EVER. So, I think the most cost-effective choice is the Koni Yellow + Eibach Pro setup. I don't need external adjustability for the rear shocks. I mean, how often will I be changing the damping? By cost-effective, I mean $800 less than KW V2s Last edited by PrinceMiro; 06-25-2012 at 09:06 AM..
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06-26-2012, 05:01 AM	#19
jrainlay Private First Class 5 Rep 154 Posts Drives: 07 Z4 M Coupe Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2007 BMW Z4 M Coupe [7.50]	H&R coil overs have adjustable ride height and just about everything I've read about them on various forums has been favorable.
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