Check this out. Another Z4M bearing issue

[Rated M Roadster]

Originally Posted by kennyfrc

Any S54 with rod bearings over 60K is probably on borrowed time.

You're making this claim with zero evidence though.

[chickdr]

Does Blackstone recommend 4K intervals? Seems really short to me considering BMW has a ~15K interval.

[kennyfrc]

Originally Posted by Rated M Roadster

You're making this claim with zero evidence though.

Pal and others have posted quite a few UOA, do search and read them, then draw your own conclusion.

[kennyfrc]

Originally Posted by chickdr

Does Blackstone recommend 4K intervals? Seems really short to me considering BMW has a ~15K interval.

BMW's recomended intervals are to minimize their costs under warrnaty and in turn maximize profit. If memory serves me correctly Blackstone's universal averages are based on 4-4500 intervals.

[inTgr8r]

My last UOA with TWS at 4,250 interval and 27K on the car was:

Lead 3
Copper 2
Iron 8

[jophish17]

Does the oil have to be fresh out of the engine to test? I have a blackstone kit that I forgot to fill when I changed my oil about a month ago, but I still have the oil sealed up in a container as I have been in and out of town and unable to drop it off

[kennyfrc]

Originally Posted by jophish17

Does the oil have to be fresh out of the engine to test? I have a blackstone kit that I forgot to fill when I changed my oil about a month ago, but I still have the oil sealed up in a container as I have been in and out of town and unable to drop it off

Should not matter if it sat for a month or three.

[kennyfrc]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

My last UOA with TWS at 4,250 interval and 27K on the car was:

Lead 3
Copper 2
Iron 8

NICE!

2PPM of lead on a ~4K interval is the lowest I have ever seen anyone post!

[Rated M Roadster]

Originally Posted by kennyfrc

Pal and others have posted quite a few UOA, do search and read them, then draw your own conclusion.

You said "any S54"; two cases is not "any", not even close.

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by jophish17

Does the oil have to be fresh out of the engine to test? I have a blackstone kit that I forgot to fill when I changed my oil about a month ago, but I still have the oil sealed up in a container as I have been in and out of town and unable to drop it off

Yes it should be.
You should also drain after a full warm up cycle to drive any moisture out.
Then sample mid-stream & seal.

[mousitch]

Originally Posted by kennyfrc

NICE!

2PPM of lead on a ~4K interval is the lowest I have ever seen anyone post!

You look good. I had 23 lead on a 2500 Blackstone. But BS thinks the PO might have used leaded gas for a track visit. Ill know more after this winter when I change again. Of course I change after every winter storage so its impossible for me to get more than 2500 miles on a cycle.

[Beedub]

id love someone with an FI s54 to get a blackstone.... would be really interesting to see just how much wear its adding.... Fwiw i change oil every 4k miles.

Re the rod bearings?? fuck it, im not worried.....the s54 is overall an fantastic motor with imo very few pitfalls.... if it breaks or fails, perfect excuse to build it super strong.

[Finnegan]

^This.

Every motor out there has issues. Talk to a Porsche owner who really drives there car and ask them about IMS, scored RMS, oil starvation, cylinder walls, or porous blocks. Talk to Corvette owners about piston slap, and a whole host of other ills. The S54 has some weak points, but overall it's a pretty solid motor.

I'm going to set aside some money for this repair, no way I can track the car and not expect that. I think it's something to keep an eye on an manage.

I also think there may also be a case for using something other than TWS or a ZDDP additive. But that takes us right back to this thread. I could be reading the data wrong, but from the info in that thread it looks like TWS shears down to 40W pretty darn fast.

[Caddyshk]

Why should we believe a few track days here and there adds up to motor problems? I suspect short trips around town and infrequent starts coupled with BMW recommended oil service intervals does more damage?

[thekurgan]

Originally Posted by Caddyshk

Why should we believe a few track days here and there adds up to motor problems? I suspect short trips around town and infrequent starts coupled with BMW recommended oil service intervals does more damage?

I agree with this as well as environmental (temp/moisture/salt). It's the main reason I don't use anything but paper elements for filtration, this engine doesn't need ANY additional particles contaminating the oil as it seems more than important in the S54.

[kennyfrc]

Just got the report back from Blackstone on my friends E46 M3 with 72K miles. His had 9PPM of lead with 7K on the oil. Blackstone said if it doesn't come down on the next UOA the rod bearings need inspected/replaced.

[kennyfrc]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

^This.

Every motor out there has issues. Talk to a Porsche owner who really drives there car and ask them about IMS, scored RMS, oil starvation, cylinder walls, or porous blocks. Talk to Corvette owners about piston slap, and a whole host of other ills. The S54 has some weak points, but overall it's a pretty solid motor.

I'm going to set aside some money for this repair, no way I can track the car and not expect that. I think it's something to keep an eye on an manage.

I also think there may also be a case for using something other than TWS or a ZDDP additive. But that takes us right back to this thread. I could be reading the data wrong, but from the info in that thread it looks like TWS shears down to 40W pretty darn fast.

Are GT3 subject to the same issues that plague the cayman, boxster, and other 911 models?

If memory serves me correctly the GT3 doesn't use an IMS.

[bignosejim]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

Jim, I think your car is primarily street driven, but we don't know the use history prior, right?

Anyone else with UOA and a street driven car seeing elevated lead at 30/40/50K miles?

I think my car may have had a large interval without an oil change after it's 1200 mile service (with the original owner). The last owner treated the M Coupe nice.

I haven't had time to put any track days on my car yet. I drive mostly to work and back with it. The trip is about 45 miles of mostly state road (65 mph limit). My numbers from my two Blackstone analyses are:



My last sample at the end of August was halfway through my oil change interval. I'm on pace for about 10 ppm lead when I change it next. The first sample may have been tainted since I dropped the sample bottle while I was draining the oil and had to dip into my catch pan. Now I have the sample pump (so much easier!). Either way my lead levels are higher than most.

I bought the M Coupe for this particular engine and knew that this was a possibility (more like probability with use). It's just like with the Vanos, what makes this car great is also a weakness. I'm careful not to redline the car until oil temp is at 200F. But I do try get it there after normal operating temp is reached (until I get to the speed limit or slightly above maybe.

[Finnegan]

No IMS with the GT3 or Turbo versions. And, up to a certain point, these are based on the older air-cooled engine design and have a split crankcase design. At least that's what I remember. With the advent of the DFI engine, Cayman, Boxster, and others left IMS and the associated issues behind on "lesser" models. But seems like some continue to have issues with AOS (air oil separator) and ingestion.

The whole point here was that everything out there, more or less, has some issues.

Caddy, good point on questioning that assumption of mine, and that's a good point you and Kurgan raise. I guess I was thinking of Pal's use level, which was around 50 track days. I expect to be at 30+ in a couple year's time. No reason to **expect** that will cause a need for new bearings I guess.

On the other hand, having a reserve fund (self-funded extended warranty) with a high-performance car seems like a good idea. At least for me.

[mousitch]

Originally Posted by bignosejim

t.

I bought the M Coupe for this particular engine and knew that this was a possibility (more like probability with use). It's just like with the Vanos, what makes this car great is also a weakness. I'm careful not to redline the car until oil temp is at 200F. But I do try get it there after normal operating temp is reached (until I get to the speed limit or slightly above maybe.

That's why I bought mine too. Screw it. I'm gonna enjoy it and not freak out. If it blows to shit, Ill just park it and rebuild. Its a keeper either way. Its a car and not anything more. I need to put that into perspective. I lost sleep over it last night when I first saw the post but that's it. I'm gonna take it to the track in November and enjoy the wholly loving crap out of it. Just my two cents

[KevinM]

This is a fun topic on my other board, M5board.com. A relatively small number of spun bearings on a forum board can create quite a stir. With the S62, most failures can be traced to a combination of 1) following BMWs oil change interval based on the lights, usually 12-15K miles; 2) not warming the engine up properly before having fun (e.g., using the tach lights rather than the oil temp or ignoring both); 3) aftermarket software that raises the rev limiter to above the stock 7K. Track use can be involved, but usually in combination with one of the above. As the E39 M5 platform has been around for a while, it certainly becomes more complicated if you are the 3rd/4th/5th owner and don't know how the car has been treated before you.

As for the S54, I'm taking the same approach as for my M5 (which I have enjoyed as a DD for almost 8 years now): Oil changes every year or 5-7 K miles, which ever comes first (for me it is q yr), regular Blackstone analysis during oil changes, warming the car up properly, and keeping the stock rev limit (and really, the S54 does not need to go to 8K for peak performance...great marketing though).

[Ron Stygar]

Originally Posted by chickdr

Does Blackstone recommend 4K intervals?

4,500