Why did the M disappear?

[strokeoluck]

Sorry for if this is a rookie question, but after driving my M roadster in a "lively" fashion this morning, a question popped into my head. Why did they stop making this car?!

Let me add a few qualifiers: 1) as some of you may have read, I thought I had issues with valve adjustment, but turns out two shops confirmed it's the standard Vanos sound; and 2) I took a hard look at a brand new 3.5 (???), the one the dealer said was supposed to replicate the M car. I found it to be quite quick, but "soul-less."

While driving my car in a spirited fashion this morning (God I love this car, I should have purchased it 20 years ago), I started wondering...why would BMW ever stop making this car? I recall hearing that BMW only made ~2,000 of the M roadsters (total?!; or in one year?). In the latest iteration of their sports car it seems they went solely to the paddle shifter. Don't get me wrong, I love convenience, but a paddle shifter...on a sports car? Can't they at least offer it as an option?

So...Why did they stop making the M car?

[Kgolf31]

They stopped production of the Z4M because it failed on initial market release. No one wanted it.

Roadsters had a higher production number from the coupes, but I know for the coupes there are 1815 cars made from 2006-2008, which most being in 2007.

DCT is a hell of a technology. If you are going pure track car, DCT will own a manual all day. Imagine...going to a curve, clutch in, blip throttle, heel-toe to downshift, get back on the gas. The DCT...one press of the paddle it does it automatically. I was able to drive the E92 M3 fitted with DCT and it's really addicting. It's a manual car w/out a clutch, the best way to describe it.

[RSPINAJR]

I would really love to see an actual production number of the coupes. There were 1815 coupes made for the north american market. The world total is somewhere around 4000 units but have have not been able to confirm the actual number. The roadster was produced in much higher numbers.

As for why they stopped making it, it was the last car to receive the s54 which, while one of the best engines ever produced, was getting old and inefficient. The environment killed our cars, forced out by small displacement turbos and the need for better gas mileage - there will probably never be another naturally aspirated M Car again the current M3 is the last one.

There was a time when an M car meant manual only, no turbos or superchargers were allowed. Our cars are future classics for sure. whoever has one should keep it...for as long as you can.

[RADRACR]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

DCT is a hell of a technology.

Sorry in advance for hijacking. So if you try to downshift when revs are too high, does it just deny you until it's in safe range? I've always wanted to try it. Shifting in video games comes to life. I heard a GT-R upshift recently and it was straight out of Gran Turismo... instantaneous. Wonder how much it costs to fix one of those things Flying experts in or shipping it out seems realistic.

[mfanatic325]

Yes, sequential manual gearboxes are tied to smart ECUs typically to prevent money-shifts from happening. If a downshift would potentially over-rev the motor, then it will just deny your shift. You would then have to flip the paddle or shift lever again when some time as elapsed and the revs are down at a safer point in the rev range where the gearbox can then make a safe downshift.

I would personally love to have a DCT in my car
Too bad the E9X M3's probably won't fit. Otherwise a motor + tranny swap would be killer. Then we could have plenty more power without having to deal with any potential heat issues caused by forced induction. And not to mention a gearbox that'll actually hold power over the long run.

[GammaZeta]

In 2008 they stopped making the E85 Z4's so they could refresh to the E89 Z4's.

That was the last year for the old generation Z4.

[nekky]

I think there's almost NO ONE that bought this car who wasn't a "car guy" ie. enthusiast. If they wanted a fast, nice car to drive daily, they bought an M3. The guy who looked at my car the day before I bought it at the dealership, chose a Boxster instead because the Z4M was too loud and "racy" inside. Pfft.

Anyway, yeah, it's a very focused, impractical machine. The S54 really is a wonderful engine. Look up the Petronas Z4M GT3 car on youtube and you'll hear it's pretty much the best sounding car on the racetrack.

I don't think prices are really falling much, and I'll be surprised the first time you can buy a nice Z4M without a rebuilt title for anything close to $20k. They're all $25k and above right now, and clean examples will fetch over $30k with low mileage.

I'm gonna keep driving mine though.. E46Ms are all over the place with very high mileage, so nothing to worry about hugely there!

[antennahead]

Originally Posted by RSPINAJR

I would really love to see an actual production number of the coupes. There were 1815 coupes made for the north american market. The world total is somewhere around 4000 units but have have not been able to confirm the actual number. The roadster was produced in much higher numbers.

As for why they stopped making it, it was the last car to receive the s54 which, while one of the best engines ever produced, was getting old and inefficient. The environment killed our cars, forced out by small displacement turbos and the need for better gas mileage - there will probably never be another naturally aspirated M Car again the current M3 is the last one.

There was a time when an M car meant manual only, no turbos or superchargers were allowed. Our cars are future classics for sure. whoever has one should keep it...for as long as you can.

"The roadster was produced in much higher numbers"

This is actually a misconception, unless you consider 806 worldwide "much higher numbers". In the scope of things, both versions, compared to regular production numbers, are rare.


Production Data

How many versions of the E85 M Roadster were produced?
BMW M offered three distinct versions of the E85 M Roadster: European-spec models in both left-hand drive and right-hand drive configurations, plus a single North American-spec version.

How many of each version were produced?
ECE (LHD): 1,425 produced from 1/06 through 7/08
ECE (RHD): 921 produced 1/06 through 7/08
NA (LHD): 3,041 produced 2/06 through 8/08

Total = 5387

How many versions of the E86 M Coupe were produced?
BMW M offered three distinct versions of the E86 M Coupe: European-spec models in both left-hand drive and right-hand drive configurations, plus a single North American-spec version.

How many of each version were produced?
ECE (LHD): 1,714 produced from 4/06 through 7/08
ECE (RHD): 1,052 produced from 4/06 through 6/08
NA (LHD): 1,815 produced from 4/06 through 8/08

Total = 4581

Difference between Roadster and Coupe = 806

John

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by aestheticstorm

Sorry in advance for hijacking. So if you try to downshift when revs are too high, does it just deny you until it's in safe range? I've always wanted to try it. Shifting in video games comes to life. I heard a GT-R upshift recently and it was straight out of Gran Turismo... instantaneous. Wonder how much it costs to fix one of those things Flying experts in or shipping it out seems realistic.

It will deny a downshift.

With the setting to full response, there is no lag at all on upshifts or downshifts. It's really cool...it literally just jerks the whole car when you upshift at WOT.

[XMetal]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

DCT is a hell of a technology. If you are going pure track car, DCT will own a manual all day. Imagine...going to a curve, clutch in, blip throttle, heel-toe to downshift, get back on the gas. The DCT...one press of the paddle it does it automatically. I was able to drive the E92 M3 fitted with DCT and it's really addicting. It's a manual car w/out a clutch, the best way to describe it.

OP...sorry for the thread jack.

Agreed that the DCT will own a manual all day, but it's also less fun and satisfying to drive in the process. If a car can shift for itself, 99% of the time, people will drive it in the "auto" mode.

BTW...this is a pretty funny video on DCT =>

[KevinM]

Well, to state the obvious, in terms of the E85/86, the M version went away when all the models ceased production...

In terms of the E89, it comes down to (at least perceived) market demand. As was pointed out, the E85/86 Ms (as was pointed out above) were not exactly hot sellers. As we all know, the things we love about our cars (snug fit, firm ride, manual only, few luxury amenities) did not exactly endear them to the general car-buying public. BMW felt/feels that the "sDrive35is" is sufficiently fast/sporty and an M version would be redundant. Having driven the car, it is certainly fast, but certainly doesn't feel like an M. And, unlike, it's lesser brethren, the "is" version is only available with DCT.

Which brings me to DCT. Having had a good amount of seat time in a DCT equipped E92 M3, it is a fantastic transmission. I can see that for serious track use, this is the way to go. Having said that, for non-competative enthusiast driving, I'll take a manual any day of the week. It saddens me that that will not be an available choice for many high-end cars in the near future.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by XMetal

OP...sorry for the thread jack.

Agreed that the DCT will own a manual all day, but it's also less fun and satisfying to drive in the process. If a car can shift for itself, 99% of the time, people will drive it in the "auto" mode.

Agreed. Whether we like it or not, DCT is here to stay and take over the high end performance cars (in other fancy names)(hello 458 Italia).

I forget what car, but it has a 2 stage transmission. You can pre-load the next gear early so it starts spinning and then once you shift, it's stupid fast.

For a pure track car, I'd get a DCT. As of now, I have no problem with manual. I find blipping the throttle so much fun

With the higher HP cars, manual just isn't realistic anymore. Manufactures are here for 0-60 times, and DCT will achieve it the best.

[txz4]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Agreed. Whether we like it or not, DCT is here to stay and take over the high end performance cars (in other fancy names)(hello 458 Italia).

I forget what car, but it has a 2 stage transmission. You can pre-load the next gear early so it starts spinning and then once you shift, it's stupid fast.

For a pure track car, I'd get a DCT. As of now, I have no problem with manual. I find blipping the throttle so much fun

With the higher HP cars, manual just isn't realistic anymore. Manufactures are here for 0-60 times, and DCT will achieve it the best.

I believe all DCT cars shift in this way (regardless of brand) that's where the Dual in dual clutch come in.

I echo what was said a few post up, the DCT is perfect for competition situations, but their is no substitute for rowing the gears i feel like.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by txz4

I believe all DCT cars shift in this way (regardless of brand) that's where the Dual in dual clutch come in.

I echo what was said a few post up, the DCT is perfect for competition situations, but their is no substitute for rowing the gears i feel like.

Hrm, you're correct on that statement.

It might of been the early DCTs where you had to manually pre-load....now it does it automatically.

Either way, it's a blast...everyone needs to drive one before giving an opinion on it.

[Sephiroth]

These cars tend to be ON all the time. If you push the throttle there is no middle ground its instant full ON. Its difficult to just cruise smoothly. The clutch is stiff. The steering is heavy. Cup holders are a joke. No automatic or DCT. Yeah i can see how a lot of people would pass. Heck i like to change it up myself with a DD.

But its great for people like us.

[Walkurie]

Not to nitpick, but there were a few differences in the Canadian cars (maybe Central American too, if there were M cars sold there, also). The Canadian cars had kph speedometers and also had these neat, powered flip-up outside mirrors. Great for getting the water out after washing and good for avoiding tight garages. We can do this with U.S. cars, but the mirrors are manual.

[Huz-Z]

Originally Posted by tbalutis

Not to nitpick, but there were a few differences in the Canadian cars (maybe Central American too, if there were M cars sold there, also). The Canadian cars had kph speedometers and also had these neat, powered flip-up outside mirrors. Great for getting the water out after washing and good for avoiding tight garages. We can do this with U.S. cars, but the mirrors are manual.

Re the speedometers, in the US you have kph too but mph is in a larger font than kph. In Canada, its the other way around. I know because I imported my car from the US to Canada. The fact that the US car has kph means that it can be imported into Canada without swapping out the instrument package.