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      05-15-2013, 07:35 PM   #23
intoflatlines
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Not to hijack the thread, but I have a quick question that's kind of related. If I supposedly have a pinion seal that has a very slow leak, when I take it in to get the gasket or whatever replaced, would the labor involved for that job be such that it would make sense to just have them swap the ring and pinion out at the same time? Or would there be much more work involved?
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      05-15-2013, 07:36 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intoflatlines View Post
Not to hijack the thread, but I have a quick question that's kind of related. If I supposedly have a pinion seal that has a very slow leak, when I take it in to get the gasket or whatever replaced, would the labor involved for that job be such that it would make sense to just have them swap the ring and pinion out at the same time? Or would there be much more work involved?
definitely way more work.
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      05-15-2013, 07:39 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
definitely way more work.
OK, thanks.
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      05-16-2013, 02:35 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
I could have saved you all that trouble...

In the marketing literature for the MZ4 Roadster and coupe, it was mentioned that the viscous coupling in the LSD in the coupe has been redesigned and retuned to provide a rudimentary, beta version of torque vectoring. In any given turn, when both rear wheels are on the ground in full contact and traction, the ///M variable diff is tuned to send MORE POWER to the outside wheel.

An upgrade would be for someone with and E46 M3 to swap to the MZ4 Coupe's diff, not the other way around. The internals of the MZ4's LSD has some basic torque vectoring functions built in.
When you say Mcoupe, does that include the MRoadster diff as well?
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      05-16-2013, 02:37 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
the 1 1.5 2 way is exactly as you said. 1 way only locks on acceleration, 1.5 locks at a much different rate on engine decel, and 2 way generally locks at nearly the same right either way.

How quickly it will lock is called the ramp angle. Look at the center section of the below image, nelow where the yellow is you'll see a diamond shaped hole. That it's diamond shaped means its a 1.5 or 2 way. a 1 way would be a triangle. The angle of that hole determines the ramp angle, or how quickly the diff locks up. The post in that hole is literally transferring the load, and as it pushes on those center housings they are pushed outward. This in turns clamps down on the clutches and locks them together. Steeper the angle the faster that happens.

This action in our diffs is driven by a pump instead of this ramp. The higher the when differential, the more the pump spins, the more clamping force locking the axles. FYI it's very weak and easily overpowered.





So you would recommend an aftermarket LSD unit like OS giken or carbonetics or VAC unit or something like that ? Define easily overpowered.
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      05-16-2013, 08:38 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tikamak View Post
So you would recommend an aftermarket LSD unit like OS giken or carbonetics or VAC unit or something like that ? Define easily overpowered.
The clamping force on the clutches isn't very strong, a modified car will just blow up one wheel like an open diff. What you should get depends on what you're doing and what you're making. Some are good for cornering, some are good for drifting, some are good for dragging.
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      05-16-2013, 09:04 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
The clamping force on the clutches isn't very strong, a modified car will just blow up one wheel like an open diff. What you should get depends on what you're doing and what you're making. Some are good for cornering, some are good for drifting, some are good for dragging.
Isn't the E9x M3 LSD the exact same shear pump design? What kind of modifications on a Z4M would you expect to easily overpower it?
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      05-16-2013, 01:32 PM   #30
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Thanks chaps its all great information. I really like the Giken diagram.

I am still stuck though as to the differences between the e46 m3 and z4m diff...

I did find this which is from the manufactur that built the diff for the m3 not sure if they manufactured the one in the Z?

http://www.gkn.com/driveline/about-u...coLok-engl.pdf

Last edited by DonDP; 05-16-2013 at 01:37 PM..
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      05-16-2013, 04:36 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDP View Post
I am still stuck though as to the differences between the e46 m3 and z4m diff...
Only way you will find out is by dissembling it or talking to the engineer who actually designed it. If there is a difference it's not likely a difference in principle, only in application.

Additionally, it's very likely all you are seeing is something as simple as a different location of machining for whatever reason. If you had many more pics it would be easier to tell, but like I said, dis-assembly is your best and really only bet if you truly must know.
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      05-16-2013, 04:55 PM   #32
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FWIW, Dan at Diffsonline told me that they were the same when I ordered my rebuilt unit with 4.10 gears.
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      05-16-2013, 06:11 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philjw View Post
FWIW, Dan at Diffsonline told me that they were the same when I ordered my rebuilt unit with 4.10 gears.

Well, what does not know?
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      05-17-2013, 02:52 AM   #34
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I have sent a friendly mail to GKN - I wonder if they will get back to me...
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      06-09-2016, 12:51 AM   #35
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Did anyone ever get to the bottom of this? What's the actual difference between our diff and regular E46 M3?

A friend with an M3 CSL recently removed his diff and saw that it's the same as the Z4M's, with the oval openings inside as the picture above. He searched around and he found this thread and was asking me about it.

Is the E9x M3 the same as ours?
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      06-09-2016, 07:56 AM   #36
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At least one difference is the cover. The E46 M3 diff can be made to fit, but it requires trimming of the fins.
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      06-09-2016, 08:02 AM   #37
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one thing mentioned in this thread is how easily it is to over power the diff... well thats not true....

numerous of us running big power, diff has never offered anything but excellent performance on the track and road.

really interesting thread btw....
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      06-09-2016, 08:18 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeybritches View Post
At least one difference is the cover. The E46 M3 diff can be made to fit, but it requires trimming of the fins.
That's obvious yes, I meant in the function of the thing. My CSL friend said something about us having more clutch plates or something...? I briefly tried to find some picks of the E92 M3's diff to compare but got nowhere...
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      07-04-2017, 10:24 AM   #39
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Back from the dead once more. I'm researching putting a LSD in my 3.0si coupe and ran across this. Looks like there are 'open' questions.
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      07-05-2017, 05:10 AM   #40
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I like the Quaife unit in my 3.0i better than the OEM LSD in my M's. I've driven other cars with clutch-type LSD's, and I still prefer the Quaife.

The thing I don't like about the OEM M diff is that it requires a bit of wheel slip to start to function, which makes the car momentarily unstable.
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      07-05-2017, 08:02 AM   #41
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I've been digging around for prices on Quaife. $3K seems like a lot of money. Maybe I'll keep an ear to the ground for some other alternative, maybe I'll bite the bullet. Not sure yet.
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      07-05-2017, 09:56 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
I've been digging around for prices on Quaife. $3K seems like a lot of money. Maybe I'll keep an ear to the ground for some other alternative, maybe I'll bite the bullet. Not sure yet.
Check out Schmeidmann over the pond.
https://old.schmiedmann.com/Z_series...e11.htm#paging
Shipping was surprisingly cheap for items I had imported to Canada
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      07-12-2017, 12:23 AM   #43
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I recently rebuilt an E46 M3 diff with new Bearings and Seals and then two weeks back i rebuilt my Z4 M Coupe diff with all new seals and Bearings.... I can confirm for sure that the M3 diff and Z4 M Diff are not the Same...

These are the things i noticed while doing the rebuilds:
> Both Diffs look the same but the Z4 one uses a slightly different case and back door...but has the same mounting points as the M3 diff (2 rear and 1 front) ( also saw this when i tried to use an M3 gasket on the Z4 Diff cover - there are slight changes on the two)
> The LS Units/Carriers are completely different with the Z4 showing a Meaty carrier with more clutch packs than the M3.
> Also looks like the inside of the Z4 case was machined on the sides to allow the Bigger thicker LS Unit to fit in the Z4 diff Case.
> The bearings that i ordered for the M3 was completely different part numbers to the Z4.
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      07-12-2017, 12:36 AM   #44
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Here is the M3 Diff with the cover off and the LS Unit out
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