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      07-16-2016, 08:25 PM   #1
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Custom One off z4m specific turbo kit?

Had a friend send me this.

Very odd as i didn't think any successfully turbo'd a z4m because of tuning the ecu. I love how it refers to the car as e88.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/2006-2008-BM...dWTokg&vxp=mtr
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      07-16-2016, 09:02 PM   #2
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He calls it in the title 'ProEFI'.
Thats an ecu manufacturer.

And he says:
"Items needed to make this kit function properly on your car:

1. ECM and tuning"

If he really has run this kit with the factory ecu or if thats just his speculation that it'll work I dont know.
Tuning the factory ecu is always a problem when going for high boost.
In theory tuning for a supercharger is more or less the same as tuning for a turbo. But maybe you get all kinds of error messages with the z4m's ecu when it sees the power and bang at low rpm (boost at low rpm). All supercharger kits for the s54 are centrifugal so they do very little at low rpm.
It's not the problem that it's not tuneable, the problem (probably) is that so many mappings are in the ecu that only a small percentage is know what it does. And 1 unknown mapping can cause a ton of error messages.
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      07-17-2016, 11:48 AM   #3
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what a mess of kit and car... looking at the build up in the scuttle area... this isn't moving alot, lol!
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Last edited by Beedub; 07-17-2016 at 02:08 PM..
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      07-17-2016, 03:10 PM   #4
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It's been for sale for a long time. The price has come down over time, but the the fatal blow is that no one has been able to get the ecu to work.
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      07-17-2016, 05:35 PM   #5
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+1
I don't see this ever working.
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      07-17-2016, 07:24 PM   #6
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I also dont see how anyone could ever pay 6k for this.
If it isnt working out of the box, its just a used turbo (maybe 1k worth) some piping, and intercooler and a BOV. Maybe 1,5k worth. tops.
No ECU and no bigger injectors. I dont know how he pulls off running 8psi without bigger injectors, unless he never goes above 6,5krpm (where it cuts power), but then you dont make the 600hp, but probably less than 350hp, so around stock again....
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      07-18-2016, 08:05 AM   #7
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So many red flags -

Quote:
This was removed from a 2008 z4M coupe and has roughly 500 miles on the kit.
Quote:
Using the factory reflashed ECM the car would run without issue until 6500rpm at which time it would cut power.
Quote:
Items needed to make this kit function properly on your car:

1. ECM and tuning

This kit does not come with an installation manual. If you have experience working on cars you will have no problem installing this kit.
He never made it function correctly on his car and no reason to believe your experience will be any different.
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      07-19-2016, 08:30 AM   #8
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imo the turbo placement is silly too....
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      07-19-2016, 08:37 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beedub View Post
imo the turbo placement is silly too....
+1
And that abortion of an air box.
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      07-19-2016, 04:35 PM   #10
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absolute mess.
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      07-21-2016, 12:36 AM   #11
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That intake is such a hack job, this is how a turbo intake should look like:

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      07-21-2016, 07:06 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westersund View Post
That intake is such a hack job, this is how a turbo intake should look like:
Now that, is a thing of beauty!!!!!
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      07-21-2016, 07:48 AM   #13
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I dont know if the intake on the kit in that ad is bad.
The plenum certainly has a factor 1.5 and that is one of the most important things when going FI.
The one in the latter pic (not for an s54 i presume, no itb's!) I doubt the plenum has factor 1.5

Also the wedge shape is not positive, because of the function of the plenum. It is radically different than an NA intake.
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Last edited by GuidoK; 07-21-2016 at 07:55 AM..
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      07-21-2016, 08:12 AM   #14
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Yes that intake has been tried by the E46 turbo crowd with mixed results.
Seems to me there would be differing levels of mixture to each cylinder.
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      07-21-2016, 11:45 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
I dont know if the intake on the kit in that ad is bad.
The plenum certainly has a factor 1.5 and that is one of the most important things when going FI.
The one in the latter pic (not for an s54 i presume, no itb's!) I doubt the plenum has factor 1.5

Also the wedge shape is not positive, because of the function of the plenum. It is radically different than an NA intake.
I think it's from a M50. I wanted to illustrated what a well made intake looks like, it might be a bit narrow at the end but nothing wrong with the structure. Most high HP BMW turbo builds in Sweden run an intake like that.

Here a better one:
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      07-21-2016, 12:01 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westersund View Post
I think it's from a M50. I wanted to illustrated what a well made intake looks like,
No you showed neatly made. You dont know if it's either stronger or better performing. You only know its more pleasant to the eye.

But basically the cylinders get fed from the plenum, not from the intake point. So that is thermodynamically your starting point. The narrow end in your example doesnt point to that in its design basics. Also a wedge shape isnt necessary, maybe usefull to maximize use of space under the hood but for example on a modern turbo F1 car the intake is more of a box.

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      07-21-2016, 12:12 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
No you showed neatly made. You dont know if it's either stronger or better performing. You only know its more pleasant to the eye.

But basically the cylinders get fed from the plenum, not from the intake point. So that is thermodynamically your starting point. The narrow end in your example doesnt point to that in its design basics. Also a wedge shape isnt necessary, maybe usefull to maximize use of space under the hood but for example on a modern turbo F1 car the intake is more of a box.

No sharp edges in the ones I've showed which should equal better flow and welded in pins so the plenum won't expand with high boost, the 2 pins on the plenum in the ad are close to the edge instead of in the middle of the large flat surface.
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      07-21-2016, 12:28 PM   #18
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Still you dont know anything. material? thicknes? etc etc.
All you know and see is some dodgy pic and apparantly you can create a dynamic force model and flow model from that.
What do the sharp edges do in this case?
I also see sharp edges in the transition from the box to the itb runners in your example.

Having a sharp edge somewhere in the corner doesnt automatically mean lesser flow. For that we have CFD.

All you can conclude is that the volume of the plenum in the ebay box is bigger, and thats a good thing as it ensures less pressure drop when a cylinder opens. Thats the primary function of the plenum. Rule of thump the ratio has to be 1,5 or bigger. The ebay box probably has that with ease, your first example... not so sure. Do you know what plenum ratio that has?
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      07-21-2016, 05:42 PM   #19
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i wish mine was carbon..... its alittle heavier than I'm happy with, I've often considering getting it re-done in the same dimensions from light weight materials.... it does however seem to be a very good design and is a excellent quality, but sadly i guess isn't very blingy or impressive to behold, if it didn't have the ess logo could easily pass as an oempiece.

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      07-22-2016, 01:15 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
Still you dont know anything. material? thicknes? etc etc.
All you know and see is some dodgy pic and apparantly you can create a dynamic force model and flow model from that.
What do the sharp edges do in this case?
I also see sharp edges in the transition from the box to the itb runners in your example.

Having a sharp edge somewhere in the corner doesnt automatically mean lesser flow. For that we have CFD.

All you can conclude is that the volume of the plenum in the ebay box is bigger, and thats a good thing as it ensures less pressure drop when a cylinder opens. Thats the primary function of the plenum. Rule of thump the ratio has to be 1,5 or bigger. The ebay box probably has that with ease, your first example... not so sure. Do you know what plenum ratio that has?
Now you're just being a donkey for the sake of having an argument. The Ebay plenum looks like a hack job and the first plenum I posted a picture of was to show how a nice plenum looks like. Don't talk about material thickness or the volume as we can't possibly know judging from a picture. All we know is that the Ebay one looks like shit and has big flat surfaces which aren't ideal if you wanna run high boost, big enough? No doubt.

Similar design/size as the one I posted first, runs 750 hp on pump fuel:
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      07-22-2016, 07:51 AM   #21
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No I'm not being a donkey for the sake of an agrument.
You have no idea if that ebay manifold will expand with boost (expand isnt bad but crack is), and you have no idea what the flow is to the itb's. The boost on that ebay kit is low anyway.
As long as it doesnt cracks, its apparantly strong enough. Do you see cracks?

You depict properties on that thing on the basis of how it looks and that it's not neatly made (tbh I'd like to see you do a better job, are you familiar with aluminium tig welding? I am.) and is of a different shape than the ones you're used to, but that's an opinion not based on knowledge or research.
And then I'm being a donkey?
You think it has to be wedged shape, and I post a picture of an F1 car with a boxy shaped turbo inlet manifold. I think those guys thought it through too dont you think?
If its a different shape, it doesnt automatically HAVE to be wrong.

You dont even react to me discussing one of the most important aspects and that is the plenum ratio or the function of the plenum in general. Why is that? If you want to talk performance on turbo manifolds that's surely something to be discussed....
I can think of several points where that ebay intake can be improved upon (like maybe the relative small inlet piping diameter or that it takes a tight corner before entering) but the fact that it looks like a lepers face doesnt have to restrict performance imho.
Also the sharp edges you talk about are just as sharp in your examples if you look at the air path from plenum to cylinder. how the intake runners exit the manifold are 90deg corners, in both examples. How the air enters the plenum is of less importance than how it exits, because the air going into the cylinders isnt phased with the air going into the plenum. Thats the function of a plenum, a buffer (and its the size of that buffer that matters, and that might be on the small size in your first example as I wrote before, it sure is smaller than that ebay intake). On a NA intake thats completely different, that uses a resonated air ram effect when properly designed (helmholz resonater/spring mass system).
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Last edited by GuidoK; 07-22-2016 at 08:41 AM..
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      07-22-2016, 02:52 PM   #22
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It's the same as always with you, putting words into my mouth. I have never said it has to be a wedge shape, the picture I posted were merely to show how a nice plenum looks like. To me that is a plenum that doesn't have big flat surfaces (if they do there should be pins welded in) to avoid expansion which can result in cracks at high boost, avoid sharp edges to the best of your ability to promote air flow. I never said anything about performance or size, even though the one I posted first is big enough to run 750 hp despite looking smallish.

That F1 plenum is outrageous, in a good way. It may be boxy but it has no sharp edges, if sharp edges didn't matter...
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