Z4M - Best Tire to Choose

[STIHLBOLTS]

Searching like crazy for replacement tire and reading all the posts, scatered all through out in here.

I want Conti's DW's. Not happening, not due until October. I really did not want to go with a all season type of tire.

Lots of you either have the Hankook V12s, and I was looking at the Hankook RS3's.

But also the Dunlop Star Specs.

245-40-18 Fronts
275-35-18 Rear
Is the planned set up.

Throw me some opinions.

Thanks.

[Tonybest]

What type of driving do you do?

I love the Star Specs as street tires.

[ZeD4Mr]

Michelin PSS? Don't know about the availability though.

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by Tonybest

What type of driving do you do?

I love the Star Specs as street tires.

Star Specs are great tires, I really like them. PSS outperforms them in in wet conditions (significantly), so if you're doing a lot of wet weather driving, that's a consideration. Not sure about PSS on track (most say they're really good), I just know the Star Specs are great there.

+2 on type of driving. Also, how cold does it get where you are, and are winters really wet?

If you're getting a lot of under 40 temps winter, or 30 or below (doubt it, but just in case), an Extreme Performance Summer Tire isn't the best choice. Conti DWS would be better then.

Conti DWs are good tires, really good in mixed conditions, but not in the same league for performance driving as the Star Spec or PSS.

[nekky]

All the AutoX guys around here use Star Specs or RS3s. They said my NT-05s are good but don't have the bite on quick turns like Star Specs do. NT-05s look better and are cheap, though. I run that exact sizing, btw.

[Pheonix]

Originally Posted by Tonybest

What type of driving do you do?

I love the Star Specs as street tires.

WHS + 1. I am running PS2 and really like it. I will probably move to the Pilot Super Sport next.

[AUTOX08MC]

Star Specs are a great choice. Extremely good in the rain, fantastic dry grip.....not good in cold weather

[STIHLBOLTS]

I bought a set of the DW's 2 years ago, still have pently of tread for the rear set. Ran great in the N Ga moutains when we went to 6 Gap. Did fantastic in the rain.

My typical driving is evening runs to dinner with the wife and some spirted driving on our south Georgia country roads. I have yet to run a Autox so I don't have to have a tire specificly for that, I know the Hankooks are getting good reviews in that arena.

Michelin PSS? Don't know about the availability though

I don't want to spend a fortune on tires. Michilins way to pricey, I am looking to stay under a grand for the set. I know the PS2's have got to be good, lots of people have them, but over priced.

If you're getting a lot of under 40 temps winter, or 30 or below (doubt it, but just in case), an Extreme Performance Summer Tire isn't the best choice. Conti DWS would be better then.

- It dont get that cold down here and I wont go out with the car in that kind of weather. A summer rain, yea ok, winter icey stuff, I stay home.

Thanks Guys for the input.

[antennahead]

I just replaced my OEM wheels and Contis with some Advant Garde M-359s, 18x8.5 and 18x9.5 with 235/40 and 265/35 Michelin PSS for $970 at Tirerack. They still have the $70 Michelin rebate on a set of 4. I love the PSS, best street tire I've owned. The dry handling is great, but even after reading all the accolades on the wet handling and expecting that, I was still amazed at how good they are in the wet. Just my 2 cents

John

[schwank]

v12 for the street, star spec's for the track for me...

[MFGJR]

I can contrast the Contis and the Star Specs.

I've the Conti DWs (245/275) on the street for about a year and have been happily surprised with their dry grip and especially impressed with their wet performance and comfort, but note that my reference point is the OE Conti Sport Contact.

I bought Star Specs (235/265) for track tires. I haven't had them on the track yet (that happens this weekend!), but I've been driving them some on the street to break them in a little, get rid of the mold release, etc. The Star Spec's dry grip is WAAAAYYYY better than the Conti DW. However, after driving in a few decent thunder storms, they're noticably spookier than are the Contis.

Also, the Conti DW is a much more compliant, comfortable tire than the Dunlop, which feels a good bit harsher. Can't comment on wear as I haven't put many miles on either set.

I'd say for limited, dry use and spirited driving, go with the Dunlop, hands down. For a daily driver in all conditions (in the South, at least), or for comfort with decent performance, the Conti DW. My $0.02.

[STIHLBOLTS]

Originally Posted by MFGJR

I can contrast the Contis and the Star Specs.

I've the Conti DWs (245/275) on the street for about a year and have been happily surprised with their dry grip and especially impressed with their wet performance and comfort, but note that my reference point is the OE Conti Sport Contact.

I bought Star Specs (235/265) for track tires. I haven't had them on the track yet (that happens this weekend!), but I've been driving them some on the street to break them in a little, get rid of the mold release, etc. The Star Spec's dry grip is WAAAAYYYY better than the Conti DW. However, after driving in a few decent thunder storms, the'ye noticably spookier than are the Contis.

Also, the Conti DW is a much more compliant, comfortable tire than the Dunlop, which feels a good bit harsher. Can't comment on wear as I haven't put many miles on either set.

I'd say for limited, dry use and spirited driving, go with the Dunlop, hands down. For a daily driver in all conditions (in the South, at least), or for comfort with decent performance, the Conti DW. My $0.02.

Well just having come from Tally in a rain storm and no issues in the water I agree with you about the DW's. Problem is no one has them any where. The extreame tires are too spooky for me on wet roads so I guess I am going to default to the DWS. I don't see much else of a choice.

Thanks folks.

[STIHLBOLTS]

I found that 1010 Tires has the DW's. I have found the PSS's close bye too, they are about 200 more then the DW's, but when you factor in the freight cost they balance out. Plus the tread pattern is pretty close to each other. Almost like one was copied off the other. Who knows. I have Michelin on my trucks with great service life, I guess it's time to give them a try.

Thanks guys.

[Racer20]

Let's see, I have the PSS on my ZHP, the Conti DW's on my Mini, and a set of Star-Specs for track tires on my Mini. My Z4M has a pretty new set of the OE Sport Contacts. Here's my take on all 3:

Michelin PSS:
Probably the best all around tire I've ever driven. My ZHP will never see the track, but this tire has tons of grip for the street and is very linear and predictable. The ride quality and noise is also very very good. The on-center steering response isn't as sharp as I remember when my 2nd set of OE pilot sports were new, but this could be due to bushing wear too. I've had it on the car for ~12,000 miles, and it's still quiet, grippy, and has plenty of life left. Wet handing is fine, never had anything close to an issue. With these tires on it, my ZHP feels more capable than my Z4M.

Conti DW:
A very good tire in all respects, especially considering the price. Definitely not as grippy as the PSS or StarSpec . . . I would not take this tire to the track. This tire is very good all everything, but not quite as good as the PSS in anything. After 20K miles, it still seems to have 40% tread life left, and is still quiet with no vibrations. A great tire, especially for the price. I haven't had any issues with wet handling on my FWD Mini.

Star-Specs:
I had a set of these on my GTI as well, so I'm on set #2. They are awesome at the track. Steering response is sharp, and they have tons of grip. After 4 track days and about 6000 street miles, they have about 40-50% treadlife left. They aren't bad for the street when new, but after about 30% usage, they get pretty harsh and very noisy. I really don't like driving the mini on the street with them at this stage in their life. Again, I've never had any issues in the wet with them on either my Mini or my old GTI.

Summary:

Michelin PSS: Awesome tire, no real compromises. Great street/track combo tire, but expensive.

Conti DW: Great value tire that does everything well on the street. This will probably be my go-to tire for my daily drivers. Not optimal for the track.

Star-Specs: Great track tire, but compromised for the street. If you have a 2nd set of wheels for the track, get these.

I've heard good things about the RS3 as well. We used the RS2 on our lemons car, and we were consistently one of the fastest cars at every race. A very different context than what we're talking about though, so tough to compare. I might try the RS3's once my star specs wear out.

[STIHLBOLTS]

Antenna - why did you go down in size? 235/265? Daily driver? I know they fit and the look is good. I am going with the 245/275 to stay pretty close to stock fit. Are you planning on lowering your car?

I just about let myself get talked out of the PSS's. My tire guy said his Michlin Rep also does Contis and just said price wise the DWS would be better value so I said ok yesterday, I spent a lot more time reading last night and change his mind back to the PSS's this morning. I know I would regret it with the all season tire over the summer tire. I don't plan on driving up in the moutains during any winter months that might have "Light" snow. But there are enough curvey roads down here where I want the added confidence that the PSS's should give me. And when I wear these out I can always go with the DW's later.

Thank you all for your help!

[antennahead]

Originally Posted by STIHLBOLTS

Antenna - why did you go down in size? 235/265? Daily driver? I know they fit and the look is good. I am going with the 245/275 to stay pretty close to stock fit. Are you planning on lowering your car?

I just about let myself get talked out of the PSS's. My tire guy said his Michlin Rep also does Contis and just said price wise the DWS would be better value so I said ok yesterday, I spent a lot more time reading last night and change his mind back to the PSS's this morning. I know I would regret it with the all season tire over the summer tire. I don't plan on driving up in the moutains during any winter months that might have "Light" snow. But there are enough curvey roads down here where I want the added confidence that the PSS's should give me. And when I wear these out I can always go with the DW's later.

Thank you all for your help!

I also lowered the car with the Eibach Pro Kit, and wanted to make sure I didn't rub. Additionally, I wanted to maintain close to the same steering response and wasn't sure if I'd notice a difference in response with a 245 up front. I used the Tire Racks detailed comparison of the various sizes, and the PSS footprint was almost the same for the 265 versus the 275.......another words I don't think it was a full 10mm difference. It's a daily driver, and I'm very happy with the handling during spirited driving on these sizes. I guess what started me down the 235/265 path was the steering response. YMMV

John

[kennyfrc]

I have the Michelin PSS and it took about 3K miles for them to really break in and now the grip is unreal! Hands down the best tire I have ever owned with very high limits whether it be the track, street, or rain. Little to no compromise on anything.

[Spreadsheet]

Hankook RS-3s

My original set with lower than normal tread depth made it 18K miles, newer sets with normal tread depth should last 24K+, which is better than factory rubber. So sticky, harder to spin the tires than factory rubber, so they last longer. Seems counter-intuitive, but results don't lie.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by STIHLBOLTS

Antenna - why did you go down in size? 235/265? Daily driver? I know they fit and the look is good. I am going with the 245/275 to stay pretty close to stock fit. Are you planning on lowering your car?

Thank you all for your help!

Here is my reasoning on 235/265.

You can fit 245/275 on OEM wheels, but you're extending the limit of the wheel at that point. When you get to that size, the tire can actually shimmy back and forth on the wheel, reducing feel and increasing slip angle (which is bad if you want max grip).

Originally Posted by Spreadsheet

Hankook RS-3s

My original set with lower than normal tread depth made it 18K miles, newer sets with normal tread depth should last 24K+, which is better than factory rubber. So sticky, harder to spin the tires than factory rubber, so they last longer. Seems counter-intuitive, but results don't lie.

Finally! A RS3 fan!!!

I run RS3s for auto-x and track. Would I use them for DD? Eh, probably not because I don't need that much performance for daily commutes.

I put around 8 autocrosses and 1 track day on these tires in 1 year. My outside shoulder is worn and will need to be flipped prior to next year. Amount of miles actually on these tires? Literally nothing...lol

The tires are mounted and dismounted prior to every event, so any actual miles are just highway miles to and from an event. If I wanted to put a quick calc, it would be around 600 miles + the additional track time and autocross.

The tires are rated to last 14k miles, so I have absolutely no clue how you made it 18K on worn tires.

And the tires spin...and squeal a lot when you push them.

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Here is my reasoning on 235/265.

You can fit 245/275 on OEM wheels, but you're extending the limit of the wheel at that point. When you get to that size, the tire can actually shimmy back and forth on the wheel, reducing feel and increasing slip angle (which is bad if you want max grip).

^This. I thought I really liked the PSS in 245/275 on the stock wheels. And they're great in this size for normal everyday driving. Stop well, comfortable, and seem to have lots of grip.

But then I went out for some spirited driving on some back roads. Wow, no confidence, shimmy, etc. I should have listened to Kgolf. I think The Hack mentioned "imagine how good they'd be on properly sized wheels?" regarding this at one point. And yes, the tires were well broken in and had about 1K miles on them.

This is why I have a new set of Apex 18 x 9s and 18 x 10s in my garage and the tires are going on them next week. 235/265 on stock wheels? Great! A bit lower profile, and the ride is therefore a harsher, but the handling is superior if you take the car to the track or canyon carve.

[Spreadsheet]

Previously, I had RS-3s 245s on 8" fronts and 265s on 9" rears, now with 245s on 9.5" all the way around. Sooooooooooo, much better this setup is on 18" APEX wheels.

Forget about how much better the setup looks on the car, it wanders less and is less influenced on the highway than before and hooks up traction-wise so far very well.

As I stated before, I got 18K out of a previous set of RS-3s, though they were bald at the end. Stock rear tires where showing cords at 24K. Latest sets of RS-3s have more tread, so I expect to to get 24K+ from them AND they are less expensive than stock tires.

Others are not as impressed by these tires, but I am a fan.

[antennahead]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Here is my reasoning on 235/265.

You can fit 245/275 on OEM wheels, but you're extending the limit of the wheel at that point. When you get to that size, the tire can actually shimmy back and forth on the wheel, reducing feel and increasing slip angle (which is bad if you want max grip).

My new wheels are 8.5" front and 9.5" rear, so I could have gone the 245/275route, but I agree with you about the shimmy.......... and the 235/265 is a good fit for the wheels. If you look at the spec section on the tire rack for the PSS, the 265 is listed with a measured rim width of 10.7" ........ and the 275 lists a measured rim width of 10.9" .......... only 2/10 of an inch.......... but the tread width is listed at 10.1" for the 265, and 10.0" for the 275 ....... they actually show the 265 as a slightly wider tread width than the 275. At the end of the day besides the above mentioned shimmy effect, I thought the 235 would give me a sharper turn in and a little less trammling. In reality, it's probably minimal.

John