EML Limp mode

[Steeler]

I anticipate responses like "search is you friend", "this subject has been discussed many times" etc, etc, but I am at a loss as far as where to start with an issue I have had for some time now and would like a definitive answer to where to start.

I will be storing the car for winter next weekend and wanted to take take the car out for one last run today. Temperature is around 9 degrees Celsius.

I have had. an ongoing issue when the car is cold if I accelerate from idle quickly the EML kicks in and the engine goes into limp mode.

I decided this morning to let it warm up on the driveway for a while before leaving to see if it would warm up sufficiently to eliminate the EML issue.

I went outside after 10 minutes and oil temps were around 160f.
I revved the engine quickly to 4000rpm and the EML came on.

It took 4 restarts for the EML not to stay on.
All comments are welcomed as to what I should look at.

Thankyou

Dave

[Shipkiller]

The cars diagnostic routines are telling you that it has a problem.
Have you pulled the error codes? If so, what are they? What areas do they point to?

It could be anything. Not enough information in the post is given for anyone to even speculate.

I do not know about Canada, but the big auto parts stores in the US (AutoZone, AdvanceAuto etc.) will put an ODB-II reader on the car and pull the codes for free. If there are no ODB codes (not likely but possible) then the issue is in one of the other modules and you will need to take the car to an independent shop with the proper equipment or the dealer to diagnose the issue.

[Steeler]

Originally Posted by Shipkiller

The cars diagnostic routines are telling you that it has a problem.
Have you pulled the error codes? If so, what are they? What areas do they point to?

It could be anything. Not enough information in the post is given for anyone to even speculate.

I do not know about Canada, but the big auto parts stores in the US (AutoZone, AdvanceAuto etc.) will put an ODB-II reader on the car and pull the codes for free. If there are no ODB codes (not likely but possible) then the issue is in one of the other modules and you will need to take the car to an independent shop with the proper equipment or the dealer to diagnose the issue.

Thanks Ship

I have a reader on the way

BTW
I took the car out this morning and the EML came on at least 5 times, turn ign off and on while coasting and resets itself,apply gas too quickly and EML comes on.
Parked at the gym for hour and a half and no problem getting back home
Ambient temp was 3 degrees warmer on way home.

What does the ambient temp sensor do that is situated at the left front corner of the car under the bumper fascia?

[Shipkiller]

Most likely you have a engine sensor going out. You could look under the hood for any and all electrical connections and make sure they are seated properly and or pull the connectors and make sure they are clean and reseat them. That's all you can do until you pull the codes to point you in the right direction.

[beta]

Have you had a low battery condition? If so, your throttle position sensor at the front of the engine (really easy repair) might have gone out. Me and gferil had a similar issue when our battery died, and was fixed by replacing this part.

It could also be your accelerator pedal. If it isn't either of these, then it's the sensor inside the engine which is a complete PITA.

EML stands for Elektronische Motorleistungsregelung, which is the throttle by wire system.

[the dink]

The ambient temp sensor tells the engine computer how cold or hot it is outside, Helps the computer with fuel ratio and timing. Colder air can allow for more timing and less fuel, stuff like that!

[pokeybritches]

Dave,

I have this issue too. I think it has to do with the cold and VF tune. Last night ambient temps were around 48 degrees, and the car stalled about 4-5 times. I was just about to send you a PM and ask you about it.

What's your AFR reading when it stalls?

[Steeler]

Originally Posted by pokeybritches

Dave,

I have this issue too. I think it has to do with the cold and VF tune. Last night ambient temps were around 48 degrees, and the car stalled about 4-5 times. I was just about to send you a PM and ask you about it.

What's your AFR reading when it stalls?

Josh,
I was beginning to think this also
Haven't thought to look at the AFR at the time have you?

If the ratios do drop to an unsafe level (lean) would that cause the limp mode?
The first time it happened to me was in the summer heat about 90 degrees I filled up and when I restarted it went immediately in to limp mode.

[Steeler]

Originally Posted by pokeybritches

Dave,

I have this issue too. I think it has to do with the cold and VF tune. Last night ambient temps were around 48 degrees, and the car stalled about 4-5 times. I was just about to send you a PM and ask you about it.

What's your AFR reading when it stalls?

Josh can you pull a code and see what VF has to say

My code reader is on the way.

[pokeybritches]

I'm in the middle of a move, and my code reader is packed away. My suspicion is that it goes into limp mode due to the mixture being too rich. VF is known for rich (safe) mixtures, and in cooler weather it probably adds a little too much fuel. That's a guess though... can't really say anything until I see the AFR.

[Steeler]

Originally Posted by Shipkiller

Most likely you have a engine sensor going out. You could look under the hood for any and all electrical connections and make sure they are seated properly and or pull the connectors and make sure they are clean and reseat them. That's all you can do until you pull the codes to point you in the right direction.

OK so the code reader shot out the following

28AE torque limitation
2965 Lambda Sensor
2760 Secondary Air System
2882 Rich Condition
2883 Rich Condition
271F Lambda Sensor
28AC Internal DME RAM
2725 Lambda Sensor


I have contacted VF regarding the rich mixture condition and they will be providing an update for their tune
The others I will need to research more and hope someone can shed light.
Possibly my O2 sensors are shot(how many are there)

Thanks for all and any replies
Dave

[Shipkiller]

Originally Posted by dbarton62

OK so the code reader shot out the following

28AE torque limitation
2965 Lambda Sensor
2760 Secondary Air System
2882 Rich Condition
2883 Rich Condition
271F Lambda Sensor
28AC Internal DME RAM
2725 Lambda Sensor


I have contacted VF regarding the rich mixture condition and they will be providing an update for their tune
The others I will need to research more and hope someone can shed light.
Possibly my O2 sensors are shot(how many are there)

Thanks for all and any replies
Dave

In your original post, I did not know that you have a supercharger. This makes things very complicated.

The Lambda Sensor errors are your O2 sensors. Bank 1 and Bank 2 sensors (B1S1, B2S1). If these are faulty they could also be causing the Rich condition errors.

The error that is the most serious (read costly) is the DME error. If your DME is faulty, all the rest of the errors are suspect. eg. they may be ghost errors cause by the faulty DME. Since you have a aftermarket tune I would do as you already said. Talk to VF. Maybe you can reflash the DME and it will clear the 28AC code.

To absolutely know if the O2 sensors are bad will require an laptop ODB-II scanner (does not have to be BMW specific) so you can see the O2 sensor waveform and see if they are cycling between .2 and .9V.

see: http://www.shipkiller.com:8080/O2-Se...eshooting.html

I personally not do any more troubleshooting until the DME issue is resolved, then go from there.

[Steeler]

Thanks Ship
The voice of reason as always
VF is sending an update to the tune already installed by them
I will see what I get once it is installed

[brock5ga]

Like Shipkiller said, go after the DME code first. There are not a lot of things that will cause the engine to go to limp. The most common is the Electronic Throttle Body. I have replaced several of these across the BMW lines. They will usually code, but not always. Pull the boot off, turn the key on with engine off, and have someone work the throttle through full motion as a slow to moderate pace. Look at the throttle plate for smooth operation and listen for any grinding or rough noise during operation. If either exist, replace the throttle assembly. I believe your lambda and rich codes are going to be a result of the problem, not the cause. Is it truly going into limp and not accelerating at all?

The code I am interested in is the 28AE - Torque Limitation. I have had this on my 03 Z4 since purchase and cannot find any information on it through any of my information systems, Mitchell, Alldata, or online searches. If anyone has any info on this one, please enlighten me.

[Steeler]

Originally Posted by brock5ga

Like Shipkiller said, go after the DME code first. There are not a lot of things that will cause the engine to go to limp. The most common is the Electronic Throttle Body. I have replaced several of these across the BMW lines. They will usually code, but not always. Pull the boot off, turn the key on with engine off, and have someone work the throttle through full motion as a slow to moderate pace. Look at the throttle plate for smooth operation and listen for any grinding or rough noise during operation. If either exist, replace the throttle assembly. I believe your lambda and rich codes are going to be a result of the problem, not the cause. Is it truly going into limp and not accelerating at all?

The code I am interested in is the 28AE - Torque Limitation. I have had this on my 03 Z4 since purchase and cannot find any information on it through any of my information systems, Mitchell, Alldata, or online searches. If anyone has any info on this one, please enlighten me.

I am calling the point where the EML comes on as "limp mode".
There is a beep from the dash and the engine revs drop to 1200 or so RPM.The engine will not accept input from the gas pedal at that point.
Turning the key off and on usually resets the EML but sometimes takes multiple times.
The engine runs flawlessly except for this EML issue so I have high hopes that the VF update to their tune will fix the problem.

[brock5ga]

Originally Posted by dbarton62

I am calling the point where the EML comes on as "limp mode".
There is a beep from the dash and the engine revs drop to 1200 or so RPM.The engine will not accept input from the gas pedal at that point.
Turning the key off and on usually resets the EML but sometimes takes multiple times.
The engine runs flawlessly except for this EML issue so I have high hopes that the VF update to their tune will fix the problem.

This is limp mode when the engine will no longer rev. Just wanted to make sure we were on the same page. I have flashed a few domestic PCM's successfully without replacing them. Sometimes programming gets scattered. Being an aftermarket tune, that is definitely the first option. The only things I have seen put an engine in limp mode are the throttle body and the pedal position sensor. Though my European experience is limited, I have replaced several throttle bodies on BMW and have never replaced a pedal position sensor on one, though it is always possible. I know the intake is changed with the supercharger setup, but is the throttle body re-used or is a new one supplied with the kit? I have tossed around the idea of installing a supercharger on mine. Just haven't come across a deal good enough to make me commit yet. I have read of them going on sale for some good discounts, but haven't seen any on sale at all personally yet. Definitely interested in hearing the outcome in case I do go the supercharger route. Hopefully the flash will take care of it.