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      07-05-2014, 11:15 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Exist View Post
The VMR V710 and PS-7 are not replicas of the CSL wheels. VMR VB3's are the replica of CSLs. This one looks way different than CSLs to me. But the PS-7 has an uncanny similarity to V710.
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      07-07-2014, 08:43 PM   #24
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Both PS-7 and V710 are reps of HRE P40...
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      07-07-2014, 09:50 PM   #25
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Again, you guys are missing the point...

Apex wheels are flow-formed, therefore they're significantly stronger and lighter than cast wheels, which VMR wheels are. And they're SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than HREs which are forged, while not nearly as strong, they're a great alternative for those who are looking for wheels that save weight and in a size that also save tire budget...Since most R-comps aren't commonly available in 19+ wheel sizes, and those that are available in 19+ wheel sizes, are prohibitively expensive (HRE do not make 18" wheels unless they're custom order, and custom HRE wheels are even more bank than what's readily available).

So while y'all freak out about how Apex PS-7s are copied from VMR or HRE, chances are pretty good you probably aren't the kind that would likely buy Apex wheels in the first place...And I still think the molds they're using are existing BBS designs that have long passed into public domain or bought out by competitors after their bankruptcy/restructure.
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      07-08-2014, 12:56 AM   #26
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Nobody is freaking out about anything. Good quality aside the styling is based on other people's design. I never made any assertion other than pointing that out.

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Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
chances are pretty good you probably aren't the kind that would likely buy Apex wheels in the first place...
Wrong. I own a set of EC-7 wheels in 18x10 and 18x11.

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Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
And I still think the molds they're using are existing BBS designs that have long passed into public domain or bought out by competitors after their bankruptcy/restructure.
You have proof of that? Drawing a lot of conclusion based on pure speculation?
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      07-08-2014, 09:58 AM   #27
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How about the company I used to work for contracted with HRE to make our wheels and I have a pretty good handle on the industry?

Most of these companies fight hard to protect their intellectual property. I know we did. If someone copied our design without our permission, IP lawyers would be all up their sses before it even hits the market.

The wheels we contracted HRE to design and produce for us, we ended up taking the same design to a different foundry for a cast wheel instead of the forged. Since we own the rights to the design there were zero protest from HRE eventhough it was based on an HRE design.

Eventhough my stint in the automotive aftermarket industry is relatively short, I did work for an industry giant and if I may be so modest, I know the inner workings better than your average joe.
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      07-08-2014, 11:21 AM   #28
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I like the design of these wheels understand there are many similar designs and don't care. With Apex you get relatively light, strong wheels, that have the correct offsets that will look good over time (some would argue not great). I bought the ARC-8 because of this. I didn't want to spend a lot more $$ to get a possibly better look but virtually no performance benefit and I didn't want a wheel that I may get tired of later. I also liked the way some of the VMR looked but the weights seemed much higher so if this looks like one of the VMR's it would probably solve that issue. If you don't like it, don't buy it, but to me it is a design that is hard to hate.

Some of the wheels that are posted here aren't to my tastes, partly because I don't see them still looking good a couple of years from now. I never post my negative opinion because if the owner is happy, great.
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      07-08-2014, 04:28 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
How about the company I used to work for contracted with HRE to make our wheels and I have a pretty good handle on the industry?

Most of these companies fight hard to protect their intellectual property. I know we did. If someone copied our design without our permission, IP lawyers would be all up their sses before it even hits the market.

The wheels we contracted HRE to design and produce for us, we ended up taking the same design to a different foundry for a cast wheel instead of the forged. Since we own the rights to the design there were zero protest from HRE eventhough it was based on an HRE design.

Eventhough my stint in the automotive aftermarket industry is relatively short, I did work for an industry giant and if I may be so modest, I know the inner workings better than your average joe.
Speculation on other company's dealings again... You worked for a different company and there is no evidence that other companies use the same procedure.

In fact this is not even the point. Who cares who copies whom. I'm simply pointing out this is all based on speculation. This can't be treated as proper logic even in an internet forum. I will no longer reply to this thread since this is leading to nowhere. I enjoy my EC7. I much appreciate more original designs.
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      07-11-2014, 12:21 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by MPowerZ32 View Post
Speculation on other company's dealings again... You worked for a different company and there is no evidence that other companies use the same procedure.

In fact this is not even the point. Who cares who copies whom. I'm simply pointing out this is all based on speculation. This can't be treated as proper logic even in an internet forum. I will no longer reply to this thread since this is leading to nowhere. I enjoy my EC7. I much appreciate more original designs.
LOL. "I can't win this argument because I can't provide tangible facts, so I'm taking my ball and going home."

Speculation? Yes. Unless you and I or anyone replying here represents APEX, everything we say is speculation. Is my speculation a lot more accurate than yours, because I have first hand knowledge of the industry? Heck yeah. In fact, I would probably say that my speculation is DEAD ON balls accurate, because I have dealt with the exact topic we're "discussing here."

And the more original designs? Did I mention the ARC-8 is an exact copy of BBS's RC wheels sans the center cap? EC-7 is an exact design of BBS's Motorsports wheels? Neither one of Apex's "original" designs are any more original than the PS-7. Don't get offended. I'm not saying that the EC-7 is a terrible wheel, nor am I saying the ARC-8 is crappy because it's an existing design. I am merely pointing out to those in this thread upset that the PS-7 "looks like" another wheel...the fact is...They ALL do.

And simple logic would dictate, since all the other Apex wheels look like other BBS designs, including the PS-7, it would/could only mean that their foundry has either purchased BBS's original mold, or have purchased BBS's designs due to the bankruptcy liquidation. So it's the best of all worlds. They're not treading on the grey areas of international copyright laws, and we get high quality pressure cast wheels that are light weight and strong for track use. So why are you getting all your panties in a wad over this?

I'd be happy to continue this discussion until someone from Apex want to step in and tell us otherwise. And I still contend that those of you arguing that this wheel is a copy of another wheel is completely missing the point.

THEY ALL ARE.

p.s.: Y'all want to know how much we paid HRE for the original design on the wheels we contracted and produced? Pretty darn close to 7 figures if I recall. I would guess, had APEX hired on staff a full time engineer with all the 3-D software and hardware to design unique wheel designs for them, we'd be looking at another $300-500 per wheel more easily to justify their relative low volume. So, you want ORIGINAL designs? Pay more.
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Last edited by The HACK; 07-11-2014 at 12:26 PM..
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      07-11-2014, 08:00 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
LOL. "I can't win this argument because I can't provide tangible facts, so I'm taking my ball and going home."

Speculation? Yes. Unless you and I or anyone replying here represents APEX, everything we say is speculation. Is my speculation a lot more accurate than yours, because I have first hand knowledge of the industry? Heck yeah. In fact, I would probably say that my speculation is DEAD ON balls accurate, because I have dealt with the exact topic we're "discussing here."

And the more original designs? Did I mention the ARC-8 is an exact copy of BBS's RC wheels sans the center cap? EC-7 is an exact design of BBS's Motorsports wheels? Neither one of Apex's "original" designs are any more original than the PS-7. Don't get offended. I'm not saying that the EC-7 is a terrible wheel, nor am I saying the ARC-8 is crappy because it's an existing design. I am merely pointing out to those in this thread upset that the PS-7 "looks like" another wheel...the fact is...They ALL do.

And simple logic would dictate, since all the other Apex wheels look like other BBS designs, including the PS-7, it would/could only mean that their foundry has either purchased BBS's original mold, or have purchased BBS's designs due to the bankruptcy liquidation. So it's the best of all worlds. They're not treading on the grey areas of international copyright laws, and we get high quality pressure cast wheels that are light weight and strong for track use. So why are you getting all your panties in a wad over this?

I'd be happy to continue this discussion until someone from Apex want to step in and tell us otherwise. And I still contend that those of you arguing that this wheel is a copy of another wheel is completely missing the point.

THEY ALL ARE.

p.s.: Y'all want to know how much we paid HRE for the original design on the wheels we contracted and produced? Pretty darn close to 7 figures if I recall. I would guess, had APEX hired on staff a full time engineer with all the 3-D software and hardware to design unique wheel designs for them, we'd be looking at another $300-500 per wheel more easily to justify their relative low volume. So, you want ORIGINAL designs? Pay more.
Not sure if I want to jump into this fray, but I have to disagree on EC-7 being an exact copy of the BBS Motorsport if you are referring to the CH. I've had both wheels, and the EC-7 is definitely different. There are lots of slight differences my architect's eye pick up. The EC-7 has deeper profile spokes, and has a lighter visual mass, smaller center. CH has a larger diameter center and generally flatter and more massive looking. Slightly different curvatures. They are generally a very similar type of wheel, but slightly different in almost every way, and very different personalities to my eye. The most obvious difference is if you look at the space between the lug hole and the inner curve of the web area - EC-7 has a very tight space there. CH has a large enough space for the "MOTORSPORT" lettering.
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      07-11-2014, 11:28 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
The EC-7 is a copy of BBS's motorsports wheels?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Did I mention the ARC-8 is an exact copy of BBS's RC wheels sans the center cap? EC-7 is an exact design of BBS's Motorsports wheels?
It's painful watching you try to guess the wheel the EC-7 is based off of.

It's the BBS GT4; not the CHR or an "exact design" of the entire category of "BBS's Motorsports wheels."
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      07-12-2014, 12:47 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rated M Roadster View Post
It's painful watching you try to guess the wheel the EC-7 is based off of.

It's the BBS GT4; not the CHR or an "exact design" of the entire category of "BBS's Motorsports wheels."
Now that my friend, I can believe.
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