Anyone move from a Z4M to 996 turbo?

[zerofighter]

Hi All


I currently have an 06 Z4M Coupe and am considering selling it and picking up a 996 turbo. Has anyone done a similar move?

I would like to get some comparisons on the two in regards to driving experience, DIY'able maintenance, etc (I have not yet driven a 996 turbo, only really BMW/Audis). The plan would to DD during the nicer months.


Thanks in advance!
-Pearson

[DrVolkl]

I've had two 997 Turbo's but there's really not much to compare.

[NickyC]

Get a 993 turbo instead!

[DR Z4]

You could have two 996TTs for the current prices 993TTs are going for. It's crazy.

[Mirko]

Punko did that. He loves the 996TT so much so that he keeps bugging myself and another member on here to trade in ours for it. lol

I'll message him to respond with his thoughts.

[dorifto88]

did you post on 6speed forums? i saw a similar post on there lol.

my friend has a 996tt (he posted on the thread on 6speed) and ive ridden in his car, and followed his car on the mountains.

driving experience is more subtle in the 996. quality of ride and materials is better obv in the 996. it just is (imho)

maintenance is comparable, but their oil isnt hard to find and the motors are bomb proof

other things... the level of mechanical grip in the 996 is amazing. and its damn fast (even stock). the issue for me is that it doesnt give me the driving thrill and sensation that the coupe gives me... in regards to me and my friend... he can leave me in a straight line easily.... in the mountains we can keep up with each other, but the best way i think of it is i can somewhat lose him in the corners, but long sweepers and straights there's no way so i just coast

[Punko]

Originally Posted by Mirko

Punko did that. He loves the 996TT so much so that he keeps bugging myself and another member on here to trade in ours for it. lol

I'll message him to respond with his thoughts.

I did it...love it.

The 911TT has so much power, point and shoot. Perhaps more of a German muscle car when compared to a stock Z4M.

In the corners I think they are similar....I suck just as bad in both cars.

AWD helps in rain or light snow.

Rear seats are great for small kids or cargo.

I think the Z4M suspension was more comfortable.

The 996 are getting older, you will hear more squeaks or rattles.

Dash may be a bit dated compared to the Z4M, get a 2003...comes with a CD instead of a tape deck.

Based on the parts I have purchased, costs are similar.

DIY, easier. Everything from below or just remove the bumper cover and mufflers.

If you take it to a dealer or indy I think they expect you to pay more...it is a 911.

997 and 993 are too expensive. The 996 are a great deal.

Get it chipped and add an exhaust.

Good luck, enjoy the hunt.

[NickyC]

Don't the 996s suffer from the rear main seal issue though?

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Don't the 996s suffer from the rear main seal issue though?

Can't lump the 996s into a single category. The turbo uses the Metzger engine (same as GT3, and basic design of which carried through the GT3 and Turbo into the 997.1 series). This is basically the air-cooled engine design converted to water cooled but with a proper dry sump and a "split" crankcase. This is a very different engine than used in other versions of the 996 and 997.1. IMO it's superior, until the 997.2 era and DFI, but for more on that there's a zillion threads.

By this point in time most of the RMS would have either been replaced under warranty or with a new one. It's not that big a deal anyway, just a few drops of oil here or there (got overblown and co-mingled with another issue, porous blocks, but those will be weeded out by now too).

The thing to look at is whether the IMS bearing has been upgraded with the LN Engineering unit. Often done with a clutch replacement, RMS can be done at the same time, but IMS, unlike RMS, if stock, can lead to total engine failure (think exhaust hub or camshaft bolts on VANOS, and/or bearing replacement on an S54 or S65). Should be considered maintenance in my book and done with a clutch or at whatever the current prescribed interval is in the Porsche community.

For the OP, I think you have the maintenance view pretty high level. The driving experience--well, that's something you'll need to try. It's a great platform, unreal power compared to the Z, and AWD to put it to the pavement. But, AWD does muddle the 911 steering a bit (and 911 steering is a very different experience to a Z anyway). Corners are something that have to be attacked differently in the 911 given the engine location (kind of fun though, since it's a challenge and different). If you DD the Z then DD in the 996T would be fine I'd think. All that is meaningless until you drive one. Does it inspire you? Does it itch that scratch you have? Would it work for the kind of driving you want to do? Try one. Let us know.

[heligarret]

I have come the other way. I sold my 2003 996T in July and bought 2007 Z4mr. For me I needed something cheaper. The first day with the Z4m I was pissed off due to lack of power. However the second day I took Z4 up Angeles Crest Hwy in LA and was just amazed how the Z4 handled. Since then I have grown to love and appreciate the Z4M.

Its really hard to compare a $120000 car (996T new) to z4m. 996T looks and drives amazing but the Z4M also does, just not quite as well!!!

You will love the 996T but you will miss the Z4M. Prices on both cars are reasonable right now so you might not get what you expect for your Z4M but you will make up on buying 996T as they have come down in price a lot in the last 2 years.

As regard maintenance if you are a diy'er you can work on both easily as there are so many threads and videos online on both cars. The price of Porsche parts are surprisingly reasonable. Also the 996T is pretty much bullet proof with a few known problems which are well documented and somewhat easy to fix like rear spoiler, first gear pop out (only early models).

Its was my dream to buy 996T, been there done that and loved it but had to sell because of financial reasons and I will buy a 997 some day. However you will miss Z4M that is for sure!!!

Take your time find a good one and get a ppi done preferably buy indi shop rather than dealer. Hope this helps and feel free to pm me. I don't think you will ever be happy till you buy one because if you are like me I couldn't get the 996T out of my head till I bought one!!!

[Huz-Z]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

........The thing to look at is whether the IMS bearing has been upgraded with the LN Engineering unit. Often done with a clutch replacement, RMS can be done at the same time, but IMS, unlike RMS, if stock, can lead to total engine failure (think exhaust hub or camshaft bolts on VANOS, and/or bearing replacement on an S54 or S65). Should be considered maintenance in my book and done with a clutch or at whatever the current prescribed interval is in the Porsche community.

.

Excellent guidance here. I believe this would also apply for anyone considering a Boxter / Cayman, up to around the 2009 model year. As I am a worry wart, If I had one of these cars, I'd probably get the IMS replaced as soon as I got the car and not wait.

Good luck!

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by Huz-Z

Excellent guidance here. I believe this would also apply for anyone considering a Boxter / Cayman, up to around the 2009 model year. As I am a worry wart, If I had one of these cars, I'd probably get the IMS replaced as soon as I got the car and not wait.

Good luck!

Thanks. I fall into the "creatively concerned" category too!

I'll add that the Cayman later Boxster and 997.1 IMS bearing replacement is more involved. The design Porsche used improved, but that means pulling the engine and more disassembly. Older designs allow removal and replacement without as extensive surgery as I understand it.

[Huz-Z]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

Thanks. I fall into the "creatively concerned" category too!

I'll add that the Cayman later Boxster and 997.1 IMS bearing replacement is more involved. The design Porsche used improved, but that means pulling the engine and more disassembly. Older designs allow removal and replacement without as extensive surgery as I understand it.

Now that's good to know. I see a lot of first generation Boxsters out there in good shape at low prices. Assuming one could satisfy himself that the car's engine was solid, it may be a good buy if one plans to replace the IMS quickly.

[F360C]

So although I dont have a 996tt I do have a 997tt so I will add my thoughts. I think first though it is important to list the big mods both cars have because they can make a huge difference in cars.

997TT- H&R springs, track alignment, Protomotive 65mm VTG turbos, Tubi exhaust, E85 tune. Approx 650-700 hp depending on if I am running pump, MS109 or E85.

M Coupe- ESS Tune, headers, pulleys, Ground Control coilovers, upgraded bushings, Recaros, etc. Pretty much all of the bolt on mods.

Engine: The 997 is the clear leader when it comes to BHP. With that much power on tap it makes you giggle ever time you dump the loud peddle but even though the VTG turbos do a nice job or reducing turbo lag it is still there. As much as I love the 997 you dont have that telepathic and instant on throttle response of the S54. I have autox'd the 997 a couple times and with the turbo lag it is boring car to autox because as soon as the turbos start spooling its time to brake again. The S54 in contrast is an awsome motor to autox because of its incredible throttle response. On the track its a different matter.

The 997 is a blast on the track because on strights there is not much you can't pass. I feel that the S54 sometimes lets me down on the track due to its lower power output. My car put down 310rwhp but with your regular 335i putting down 300hp the S54 isn't quite the power house it was when the E46 M3 came out. The M coupe makes up for its lower power in a bunch of different areas but if it came with 400-450hp I wouldn't have any complaints...I think an S65/S85 is in my cars future. I will say that with the m coupe it makes me concentrate alot more on my driving because I cant just make up lost ground on the straights becase of the power advantage. Corner entry, mid corner and exit matter alot more when you don't have as much power as the guy in front.

Handling: M coupe all the way! My 997 isn't as modded suspension wise compared to my M coupe but I think even with more suspesion on the 997 I would still prefer the M coupe. The 997 handles like a 911 which is hard to describe unless you have driven a pre 991 911. Pre 991 911 handling is something awesome albiet maybe no the fastest. The way the car moves it weight around on its axis is so unique and fun. On most tracks unless it has HUGE strights I can pass or at least keep up with the 997 in the M coupe just due to the handling advantage.

My m coupe (600lbs front springs/750lbs rear) is a scapel. I can slide that thing where ever I want and it seems like the car will do anything I ask of it. The best way to sum up the handling between the two is that the M coupe handles like a race car while the 997 handles like a fast GT.

Sound: Again M coupe... there is nothing like the sound of an S54 with headers and an exhaust in an Z4M. It is loud, intimidating, and makes me cry in enjoyment everytime I take her up to 8k. The 997 on the other hand is more refined. Because of the turbos it is only loud when you are on the gas other than that it is super quiet. Now when your hard on the throttle it sounds like it is going to suck little children into the intakes.

Reliabilty: Both are equal. The Mezger and the S54 both have their common issues. On the 997 it is the rear main seal and the coolant hose fitting. I only ever had one major issue with the 997 and that was when one of the turbos decided to destroy it self. But that only meant I had to replace a turbo so I could also not feel back about upgrading from the Protomotive 63mm VTGs to the 65mm ones.

I have had no major issues with the S54 yet (knock on wood) but I do worry about the rod bearings every time I drive it.

DIYing: The M Coupe is much easier. The 997 you need to take the bumper off to get to anything major.

Conclusion: If you spend alot of time at the track/autox and like a car that feels like a race car go Z4M but if you want something that is more refined, very capable on the track and has power to spare go with the 996tt. Just be forwared... with a 911TT no amount of power is ever enough and it will empty you wallet in the never ending quest to find more.

[zerofighter]

Thanks for the replies and knowledge transfer per say, I appreciate it. I'm basically looking for a bit of a change for next spring/summer.

997s are a bit out of the price range but we'll see what happens.