New exhaust system..

[mpower1226]

Ive gotten a chance to talk to race shop that deals a lot with formula cars and gt cars, and thinking about developoing a system with X pipe and back.

Thier work quality seems to be really good and highly recommended from the tunners from Korea..

What do you think? I'm thinking of cans with titanium tips plus variable flap control ...


this is some of their works..


http://blog.naver.com/y8391495

[dorifto88]

oh yes that looks beautiful, but then again i have no knowledge when it comes to welding. though i cannot see these being anywhere near 'inexpensive'

[mpower1226]

This is system they developed for 1M.

[mpower1226]

http://serviceapi.nmv.naver.com/flas...720&height=438

Everything comes at a price right?

It will not be "inexpensive" but if people are interested maybe we can do a group buy to bring the price down.

We do have variety of choices on the tips, electric valve control and size of the pipes and so on.

If ppl are interested in X pipe plus cans then we can put in what we want and how we want and they will fabricate a bolt on kit for us.

OR we can just do a rear can with titanium burn tips and elec valve control for cheaper solution.

[mpower1226]

One more I found that they worked on z4 non-m converted to dual with M bumper. This one is electric controlled valve so in the clip, you see first with off and later turned on.

http://serviceapi.nmv.naver.com/flas...720&height=438

[mpower1226]

didnt know welding can be so pretty

[R0ME0]

I'd like to hear clips!

[mpower1226]

Its not on my car, I am just showing their works.. I did put 2 links to the clips though.

I want to see if ppl are interested in group buying if so I want to contact them and develope a system for our cars.

They did mention that it will not take more then a month to develope as they are quite experienced and fast..

[r4gs]

I'd be extremely interested in a valve-controlled muffler-only setup. The only options currently are KKS and Kreissieg.

[R0ME0]

I'd be interested!

[Z4inAZ]

What is the advantage to multiple welds to round a pipe versus mandrel bent?

I assume just thicker walls for better strength and marginally better sound?

[StickMon]

Originally Posted by Z4inAZ

What is the advantage to multiple welds to round a pipe versus mandrel bent?

I assume just thicker walls for better strength and marginally better sound?

I was wondering the same thing. Those are the prettiest welds I think I've ever seen, but that really looks like the long hard way to bend a pipe.

[ZStig]

is it titanium? would explain why its welded, not bent. Don't take my word on it though

[pokeybritches]

While it looks pretty, I can't but think of this:

[seank]

Originally Posted by pokeybritches

While it looks pretty, I can't but think of this:

You think of YOUR pink straw?

[Gallardo Rosso]

The segmented/welded tubing allows you to make really tight complicated radii especially in exotic materials that don't have the malleability and form ability of low carbon steels and stainless. This technique is very popular in motorcycles aftermarket (check out some motoGP bikes with their fairings off) since the tubing sizes are smaller and the systems often snake wildly in 3D thru the chassis unlike a car which mostly runs "gently" along the bottom. There are claims it flows better... But probably more significant gains on the tight confines of the bike. The fact that its visually quite impressive probably helps its popularity in the car world.

[mpower1226]

Originally Posted by Gallardo Rosso

The segmented/welded tubing allows you to make really tight complicated radii especially in exotic materials that don't have the malleability and form ability of low carbon steels and stainless. This technique is very popular in motorcycles aftermarket (check out some motoGP bikes with their fairings off) since the tubing sizes are smaller and the systems often snake wildly in 3D thru the chassis unlike a car which mostly runs "gently" along the bottom. There are claims it flows better... But probably more significant gains on the tight confines of the bike. The fact that its visually quite impressive probably helps its popularity in the car world.

exactly, and also remember that it is entirely made out of Titanium tubes.
Material can not be bent at least not easily. traditional way of bending tubes would not work because it is extreamly hard to work with. It will collapse or wringkle. Hence why they had to use this welding.

First two systems were traditional mendrel bent. Only the last one is Ti system.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by ZStig

is it titanium? would explain why its welded, not bent. Don't take my word on it though

I don't think it's titanium; the discoloration looks like stainless steel.
That being said: discoloration of stainless steel welds is bad.... It means that it's not corrosion protected (due to the difference in the metallic grid).
Stainless steel welds need to be treated; passivation with nitric acid (passive process) or electrochemically (active process).
A proper treated stainless steel weld should look like this:

(before and after passivation)

Non passified SS welds is not 'quality grade', at least not in industry applications (automotive has generally very very low standards)

Regarding the bending welding: the radius is pretty steep, so when using 304 or 316 (which they probably have) it might cause structural problems. I think 409 has less problems with bending&machining in general (but is lower grade)

[mpower1226]

Nope, IT is entirely made out of Ti tubes. I cant remember what gr titanium it was, but i remember shop master mentioning that with their gr. of Ti and process involved in making bends in automotive exhaust application, segmentation was the choice.

Except for the last segmented Titanium system, all others are stainless steel hence u do not see the welds but bending.

Anyway, the point of this thread is to gauge the interest from the board to see if ppl will be interested in system made for us. Either just the rear bolted cans with valve control and TI tips (just the burn tip not the can or pipes due to cost related reasons. TI cans will be upwards of 5 grand) OR X pipes plus rear cans.

Originally Posted by GuidoK

I don't think it's titanium; the discoloration looks like stainless steel.
That being said: discoloration of stainless steel welds is bad.... It means that it's not corrosion protected (due to the difference in the metallic grid).
Stainless steel welds need to be treated; passivation with nitric acid (passive process) or electrochemically (active process).
A proper treated stainless steel weld should look like this:

(before and after passivation)

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Non passified SS welds is not 'quality grade', at least not in industry applications (automotive has generally very very low standards)

Regarding the bending welding: the radius is pretty steep, so when using 304 or 316 (which they probably have) it might cause structural problems. I think 409 has less problems with bending&machining in general (but is lower grade)

[GuidoK]

Still also with titanium any blue-ish, green-ish , pink-ish or white discoloration is not good on a titanium weld. The weld itself may be silver, bronze or brown-ish.

Here is a quick color quality check card that can give you an indication what to look for:
http://www.weld.com/images/Mr%20TIG%...ion_Chart_.jpg

You're asking what we think, and I think the quality of welds and proper treatment of the welds is important. Not from a exhaust pov, but from a metallurgic pov.
Titanium is a pretty specific material because it starts to react at about 700deg. so your gas flow/cup size etc on the outside is extremely important (from a welders pov).

Also the weld at the muffler in your first pic is definately NOT a titanium weld. If they told you that.....they're lying. To me it looks all SS btw (titanium has a matte finish in general)
also where you say:

Originally Posted by mpower1226

didnt know welding can be so pretty

Those welds are blue. Pretty maybe, but NOT good. (only good if you prefer looks over quality)
Still what I'm saying is all considered 'industry grade' welding. Automotive welding exhausts may not be up to that quality standard (like AMS 2700, ASTM A967)

[mpower1226]

Thanks for the very insightful information.

Anyway, as I said earlier post, all the pictures above except for the last picture with "blue welded ring" are stainless steel. Maybe I did not make myself clear when I was posting. My apologies.

One the other hand, the last picture is made out of Ti, hence why tubes are matte.

The picture of 1m system seems to fit the explanation of yours. With no blue tint, shiny SS. Anyway, I am going to be digging up more on their products to see if they fit the bill. more products for us, the better right?

If they dont turn out to be good, I will seek other options to see if a system can be produced for us.

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Still also with titanium any blue-ish, green-ish , pink-ish or white discoloration is not good on a titanium weld. The weld itself may be silver, bronze or brown-ish.

Here is a quick color quality check card that can give you an indication what to look for:
http://www.weld.com/images/Mr%20TIG%...ion_Chart_.jpg

You're asking what we think, and I think the quality of welds and proper treatment of the welds is important. Not from a exhaust pov, but from a metallurgic pov.
Titanium is a pretty specific material because it starts to react at about 700deg. so your gas flow/cup size etc on the outside is extremely important (from a welders pov).

Also the weld at the muffler in your first pic is definately NOT a titanium weld. If they told you that.....they're lying. To me it looks all SS btw (titanium has a matte finish in general)
also where you say:

Those welds are blue. Pretty maybe, but NOT good. (only good if you prefer looks over quality)
Still what I'm saying is all considered 'industry grade' welding. Automotive welding exhausts may not be up to that quality standard (like AMS 2700, ASTM A967)