Digital Trends: How Kia went from peddling econoboxes to challenging BMW

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by tranquility

So heritage can never be achieved? Think about that for 1 sec.

Agree. Put a Hyundai badge on any Luxury German make and nobody would buy it.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Agree. Put a Hyundai badge on any Luxury German make and nobody would buy it.

Not clear who you're agreeing w...

Anyway, Kia's put their badge on their *own* cars and ppl are buying them or at least srsly talking about them.

Can't stop progress for those that try.

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by Refined

Curious as to what issues you had with the Genesis 3.8? I had the same year 3.8 gt here in Canada, also bought new... and it was a fantastic car! I'd still be driving it as my winter beater had I not lost it in my divorce

Stereo was garbage.
Interior panels rattled from day one.
Interior build quality was garbage
Trans was junk (Auto)
Lost all lights (in & out) other than headlights one night for no reason. Took it in to dealer & was told a fuse was missing. How the hell does a fuse magically disappear?!

[allinon72]

Originally Posted by tranquility

So heritage can never be achieved? Think about that for 1 sec.

It can be achieved. But it hasn't been achieved.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by allinon72

It can be achieved. But it hasn't been achieved.

Well, at least you acknowledge that.

[chumley]

Originally Posted by allinon72

It's not badge snobbery, it's heritage.

The lack of a manual in the Kia probably kills it for me but I completely disagree with you...and if I was taking your position, heritage would about the last argument I would make. You seriously believe that the current 3 (or most of the rest of the lineup) honors that heritage? The E90 came out what, 11 model years ago? You think the current gen shows 11 years of improvement? BMW seems to be doing it's best to squander that heritage you covet so much.

Only a handful of low production, high $$ BMW's make anyone's top anything list anymore. When was the last time anyone gushed over even an M3 - arguably the car that did the most to establish that "heritage". BMW has become a leasing company that happens to build cars - with the hope that the perception of desirability remains. Our receptionist at work drives a 3 series. Not because of heritage and not because she could even afford it but because she can lease it for $399 a month and she thinks it makes her look "cool". Don't mistake a good business model with earning heritage.

Let me put it this way, for about the same money I would take this Kia in a second over a similarity equipped 4 cyl 328....and for the record, I've owned BMW's continually since the late 90's.

[allinon72]

Originally Posted by chumley

The lack of a manual in the Kia probably kills it for me but I completely disagree with you...and if I was taking your position, heritage would about the last argument I would make. You seriously believe that the current 3 (or most of the rest of the lineup) honors that heritage? The E90 came out what, 11 model years ago? You think the current gen shows 11 years of improvement? BMW seems to be doing it's best to squander that heritage you covet so much.

Only a handful of low production, high $$ BMW's make anyone's top anything list anymore. When was the last time anyone gushed over even an M3 - arguably the car that did the most to establish that "heritage". BMW has become a leasing company that happens to build cars - with the hope that the perception of desirability remains. Our receptionist at work drives a 3 series. Not because of heritage and not because she could even afford it but because she can lease it for $399 a month and she thinks it makes her look "cool". Don't mistake a good business model with earning heritage.

Let me put it this way, for about the same money I would take this Kia in a second over a similarity equipped 4 cyl 328....and for the record, I've owned BMW's continually since the late 90's.

So now we're comparing a performance sedan to a 328 4 cylinder? When did that happen? The inference in the media is that this car will challenge M and RS cars. Sorry, they aren't there yet.

I agree with what you said about 3 series being mass market lease cars. But we're talking about performance cars. As the Stinger purports to be.

[chumley]

Originally Posted by allinon72

So now we're comparing a performance sedan to a 328 4 cylinder? When did that happen? The inference in the media is that this car will challenge M and RS cars. Sorry, they aren't there yet.

I agree with what you said about 3 series being mass market lease cars. But we're talking about performance cars. As the Stinger purports to be.

I'm not suggesting they are on par in terms of performance, I am suggesting that similarly equipped, they cost about the same. If I was spending my own $50k and had to pick between the two, there wouldn't even be a choice.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by allinon72

The inference in the media is that this car will challenge M and RS cars.

Is it? I haven’t been keeping tabs on all the reviews of this car by any means, but any magazine that makes such an implication is doing nothing good for its credibility.

The Stinger GT is very clearly positioned to be a cheaper S5 Sportback or 440i Gran Coupe alternative. And the four cylinder Stinger is obviously a budget A5 Sportback or 430i GT. Now the Stinger is also slightly larger than those vehicles too, and they’ve pitched that as a positive of course. Although most enthusiasts already think the offereings in this segment have stepped well over the line as far as size goes, the general car luxury car buying public probably tends to look at the bigger size as a premium feature.

At any rate, Kia never said this was going to match up against an M3. I think that if people believe that and claim that then they are jumping to conclusions due to the fact that former M head Albert Biermann is now in charge of performance cars at Kia. He may very well have aspirations to the tune of challenging BMW M and Mercedes-AMG in the future, but he is smart enough to know that the Stinger GT is not a contender in that game.

[bimmer456]

Originally Posted by chumley

I'm not suggesting they are on par in terms of performance, I am suggesting that similarly equipped, they cost about the same. If I was spending my own $50k and had to pick between the two, there wouldn't even be a choice.

The stinger base model compares to a 330i GT so its a bit cheaper. Not sure I'm a fan of the size or the hatch just doesn't look as good as the BMW. Not sure why they decided to compete with that model. 3/4 series has more options and configurations to choose from due to its success as the market leader.

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Is it? I haven’t been keeping tabs on all the reviews of this car by any means, but any magazine that makes such an implication is doing nothing good for its credibility.

The Stinger GT is very clearly positioned to be a cheaper S5 Sportback or 440i Gran Coupe alternative. And the four cylinder Stinger is obviously a budget A5 Sportback or 430i GT. Now the Stinger is also slightly larger than those vehicles too, and they’ve pitched that as a positive of course. Although most enthusiasts already think the offereings in this segment have stepped well over the line as far as size goes, the general car luxury car buying public probably tends to look at the bigger size as a premium feature.

At any rate, Kia never said this was going to match up against an M3. I think that if people believe that and claim that then they are jumping to conclusions due to the fact that former M head Albert Biermann is now in charge of performance cars at Kia. He may very well have aspirations to the tune of challenging BMW M and Mercedes-AMG in the future, but he is smart enough to know that the Stinger GT is not a contender in that game.

People associate performance with Kia now? Oh my...

[Meeni]

Heritage is forged in victory. Nowadays it is harder to make heritage for volume brands because events such as Le Mans are running exotics or prototypes, and touring series like WTCC are niche. Even the DTM is now more of a prototype style endeavor. In the times, the M3 running the DTM was very much the same thing you'd buy at the dealership.

[Germanauto]

Kia isn't challenging BMW for shit. The Stinger is an impressive product, but it still has the questionable build quality, poor residual values, and mediocre dealership/ownership experience that come with buying a Kia or any other non-luxury car.

BMW is in a class of its own. Plus, Stinger reviews have found the steering/handling to be lukewarm next to the likes of the 3/4 series. All it's got going for it are rakish looks and a value proposition. But if you want a more fun to drive and luxurious product with ageless styling, BMW is still the go-to choice.

BTW I am sure the Stinger will be a poor seller simply by virtue of where it fits (or "doesn't" fit") in the market. Large sedans from non-luxury automakers don't sell anymore (see Impala, 300, Avalon). Throw in it's performance aspirations and Kia nameplate and you have an even more niche product.

[P1]

I travel a lot for work and even though the Passat is my go-to rental, the KIAs drive better than Nissans or Toyotas... The snob in me won't be able to look past the badge, but they don't drive half bad for a daily beater.

[jkoral]

I bought a brand new 1991 Hyundai Excel (X2 generation) 3 door hatchback, stripper base model 5-speed for $5995. I drove the piss out of it my last 2 years of college (could spin the front wheels all the way through 1st gear due to the 175/70-13 tires), did nothing but oil changes for 40K miles and sold it for $3K when I graduated. Not a single broke, never stranded, didn't even need to do brakes/tires. It always started, even during the brutal winter months of -20s F (real temp, not windchill).

Can't say the same thing for any BMW I've owned. I still remember driving my new E46 to work for the first time and it overheating with less than 100 miles on the odometer. Pretty embarrassing having it flat bedded back to the dealership.

Although the Stinger doesn't interest me and I haven't owned a South Korean make since college, I think it's great how Hyundai and Kia have made such strides and I'm glad Kia is making the Stinger.

[P1]

Originally Posted by jkoral

I bought a brand new 1991 Hyundai Excel (X2 generation) 3 door hatchback, stripper base model 5-speed for $5995. I drove the piss out of it my last 2 years of college (could spin the front wheels all the way through 1st gear due to the 175/70-13 tires), did nothing but oil changes for 40K miles and sold it for $3K when I graduated. Not a single broke, never stranded, didn't even need to do brakes/tires. It always started, even during the brutal winter months of -20s F (real temp, not windchill).

Can't say the same thing for any BMW I've owned. I still remember driving my new E46 to work for the first time and it overheating with less than 100 miles on the odometer. Pretty embarrassing having it flat bedded back to the dealership.

Although the Stinger doesn't interest me and I haven't owned a South Korean make since college, I think it's great how Hyundai and Kia have made such strides and I'm glad Kia is making the Stinger.

I can easily say the same thing about American cars. I've had two Dodge trucks and a Ford Explorer. I cannot say much about the quality of the drive, but build like tanks and never once broke. I still own one of the Dodges, and the second Dodge and the Explorer all went over 100K miles without anything but just regular upkeep. Just like yourself, quite the opposite with owning BMWs. Let's just say I'll never, ever, ever own one without warranty.

[Refined]

Love it! I don't automatically like or dislike a vehicle based on the badge on the front. I like to think of myself as somewhat of a car enthusiast, not a fashionista.

This thing is getting rave reviews across the board for the package that Kia has put together at this price point. Hopefully this raises the bar market wide.