Z4M unknown outside our camp

[Andyh1]

Ever since BMW decided to get happy slapping M badges on a lot new cars (ie. M Performance models), it has sparked conversations around the old BMW models, a BMW company with specialty models including "sport" models, ZHP packages, etc.... But, only one M Platform.

Where I am going with this is, in these conversations you always hear about the E30 M3, E46 M3, E39 M5 as raw M cars. The last of their kind, the dying breed.
M cars that are being sought after because of how simply connected they feel, raw feed backl, etc....
However, I never hear or read about our little bullet, the Z4M, the chilli pepper, the one you gotta grab by the scruff of the neck.

I absolutely love this car, more raw than my previous E36 M3.
Did it never grab enough momemtum/attention as it closed the chapter for the last I6 NA M car?

[yousefnjr]

Unloved for whatever reason, but I kinda like it better that way.
Like a good restaurant before it gets popular

[Andyh1]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

Like a good restaurant before it gets popular

I guess we have the best table in the house. 😎

[NickyC]

I can't take a drive in the thing without at least one compliment. Pull through a drive through, pull into a gas station....forget it. Instant compliments. People love the car, and nearly to a person they all think it's a brand new car/model. The Z4M is aging fantastically, put a nice set of wheels on it, give it the proper stance, and it's better looking than nearly everything on the road even now.

I went and test drove an M4, an Alfa 4C Spider, a Stingray Z06, and a GT350 last week and none of them made me want to give up my Z4M. It's paid off, it's right where I want to it to be style wise, and hopefully within the next six months I'm going to super charge it. Once that happens, I don't think I'll ever get the itch to get something else.

I cannot ever imagine getting tired of this car, it's absolutely perfect in my view.

I mean seriously, what looks better than that under $100K? Even when I parked it next the 4C Spider I test drove (a car I LOVE the look of), I was surprised to see the Z4M hold it's own. Hell from most angles I even liked my car better than the 4C! It drove a helluva lot better too!!

[m5m3mc]

Originally Posted by NickyC

People love the car, and nearly to a person they all think it's a brand new car/model. The Z4M is aging fantastically, put a nice set of wheels on it, give it the proper stance, and it's better looking than nearly everything on the road even now.

Definitely. Many people think it's a new model. The profile is a classic and remains as attractive as it ever was. Wish it had two extra inches of width across the rear quarters though...that'd make it almost perfect.

[Huz-Z]

Same story here with my 3.0si. I topped up the gas tank the other night and the young lady behind the counter remarked that she absolutely loved my car and that it was her boyfriend's dream car.

[86Zed]

The platform will get its shining moment in due time. Limited production, classic lines, beloved S54 engine.

I already worry I would not be able to pick up another good example (at a fair price) should I ever let this one go.

[antennahead]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

Unloved for whatever reason, but I kinda like it better that way.
Like a good restaurant before it gets popular

Originally Posted by Andyh1

I guess we have the best table in the house. 😎

Yep, the last thing we want is this: "it's so crowded no one goes there anymore"

[Steeler]

Originally Posted by Huz-Z

Same story here with my 3.0si. I topped up the gas tank the other night and the young lady behind the counter remarked that she absolutely loved my car and that it was her boyfriend's dream car.

Yessir
My 3.0 with its blower whine and Supersprint race exhaust turns heads wherever I go.
People can't believe it's 13 years old
A timeless design

[Twixboy]

Originally Posted by NickyC

I went and test drove an M4, an Alfa 4C Spider, a Stingray Z06, and a GT350 last week and none of them made me want to give up my Z4M. It's paid off, it's right where I want to it to be style wise, and hopefully within the next six months I'm going to super charge it. Once that happens, I don't think I'll ever get the itch to get something else.

I cannot ever imagine getting tired of this car, it's absolutely perfect in my view.

I mean seriously, what looks better than that under $100K? Even when I parked it next the 4C Spider I test drove (a car I LOVE the look of), I was surprised to see the Z4M hold it's own. Hell from most angles I even liked my car better than the 4C! It drove a helluva lot better too!!

I wouldn't mind trading for the car I parked next to at school the other day.

[SaltyNC]

Amazing the RS8 is even shorter in height than the Z4, or so it appears from the photo.

Salty

[The HACK]

It's hard. In the last 35 years only 2* BMW trims ever come ONLY with manual transmission.

Z3 M and Z4 M.

Every other BMW model and trim has at least an automated manual (E46 M3 SMG) or an auto was added later as an option (Z8). Right away you limit the number of people who can actually operate this vehicle down to about 7% of the overall population in North America, what ONCE was the largest market for BMWs.

Even if an automated manual was available for the Z3 M and Z4 M, neither would have sold well enough IMO for them to be sought after. Z3 M, to some extent, was a necessity because the original Z3 was viewed unfavorably as a "hair-dresser's car" because the first models were introduced with a 134hp, 1.8L inline 4. Subsequent "upgrade" in power only bumped it to 180 (2.5L I6) and 225 (3.0L I6), and while adequate, both power plants came at the very end of the product's lifecycle (as did the 240hp S52 powered Z3 M and the 325hp S54 powered Z3 M).

By that time the press has moved on. The same hype and hysteria introduced with "Golden Eye" as a Bond vehicle was picked apart for all its flaws (soft, flexible chassis, under powered engine, quirky style, antiquated rear suspension design). While the Z3 M has retained some die-hard enthusiasts due to its outlandish (at the time) design and the very desirable low production numbers with the S54 engine (something like 800 was produced worldwide?), when the S52 version coupe first came out it was sort of derided for its design and BMW Z Coupes never really recovered from that.

And when in 2005 timeframe where BMW faced the same dilemma on the Z4, which sold well initially but by the time the LCI was due, was facing nearly the same universal criticism the Z3 did (quirky design, anemic 2.5L I6), and faced with the prospect of the new Z4 M roadster cannibalizing sales from the bread and butter, high margin E46 M3 Convertible, they decided to price the Z4 Ms way above market value. IF memory serves, a bare boned Z4 M Roadster commands almost $54K MSRP while a fully optioned out E46 M3 Vert would cost about $56K. So for the buying public it was a no brainer, they walk into a dealership, see this beautiful, modern roadster with classic proportions, ask about a test drive, only to find out that they're available in MANUAL ONLY, which they don't know how to drive, then shuffled over to the just as attractive, but not as outlandish designed E46 M3 Convertible with SMG that cost about the same, but has 2 additional back seats...Guess which car gets sold off the lot?

So I don't know what came first, the chicken or the egg. Whether BMW decided NOT to put any marketing/advertising efforts behind the Z4 M like they did with the Z3, thus killing sales, or the lack of sales convinced BMW not to put any marketing and advertising efforts behind the Z4 M. All I know is BMW never had any ads in magazines, TV, radio, or events trying to convince the public of what the Z4 M is. But I suspect BMW's marketing team was fully aware (or was convinced) that the 2 seater sports roadster and coupe market is dying. I mean, take a look at the Z8. Instant classic, pinnacle of what everything BMW stood for at the time...Sporty, luxury vehicle that exudes beauty and elegance with menacing muscular intentions. It really was the most beautiful BMW built in the last 50+ years and priced to show.

Yet by the third year of production BMW was forced to acknowledge that without an automatic version they could not justify the production numbers. By year 4 the vast majority of Z8s sold were the Alpina variant with the automatic transmission. Which brings it all back to my original point, that this platform being only offered in a manual was sort of the kiss of death. You can't sell a product where less than 10% of the population actually knows how to use it. All the other M vehicles that came after the E30, at least some time during its production run you have the option or excuse to purchase an "auto."

So we remain the select few that gets to enjoy what is probably the LAST great BMW M car, and no one knows about it. At the end of the day though, the price to buy in (the knowledge and the skills to drive a manual) is high, but the reward is even higher (out of all the BMWs I've ever driven, even the mighty M2 and M3/M4s of today, nothing comes REMOTELY close to what the Z4 Ms give you...A real driving experience).

*Technically, if you wish to split hairs, it's 4 platforms, the Z3 M Roadster and Coupe, and the Z4 M Roadster and Coupe. I'm lumping these in the same series for discussion sake, since none of the 4 chassis offer any sort of automatic or automated manual transmission.

[Twixboy]

Originally Posted by SaltyNC

Amazing the RS8 is even shorter in height than the Z4, or so it appears from the photo.

Salty

It's an R8. The RS8 isn't available in the US.

Originally Posted by The HACK

It's hard. In the last 35 years only 2* BMW trims ever come ONLY with manual transmission.

Z3 M and Z4 M.

Every other BMW model and trim has at least an automated manual (E46 M3 SMG) or an auto was added later as an option (Z8). Right away you limit the number of people who can actually operate this vehicle down to about 7% of the overall population in North America, what ONCE was the largest market for BMWs.

Even if an automated manual was available for the Z3 M and Z4 M, neither would have sold well enough IMO for them to be sought after. Z3 M, to some extent, was a necessity because the original Z3 was viewed unfavorably as a "hair-dresser's car" because the first models were introduced with a 134hp, 1.8L inline 4. Subsequent "upgrade" in power only bumped it to 180 (2.5L I6) and 225 (3.0L I6), and while adequate, both power plants came at the very end of the product's lifecycle (as did the 240hp S52 powered Z3 M and the 325hp S54 powered Z3 M).

By that time the press has moved on. The same hype and hysteria introduced with "Golden Eye" as a Bond vehicle was picked apart for all its flaws (soft, flexible chassis, under powered engine, quirky style, antiquated rear suspension design). While the Z3 M has retained some die-hard enthusiasts due to its outlandish (at the time) design and the very desirable low production numbers with the S54 engine (something like 800 was produced worldwide?), when the S52 version coupe first came out it was sort of derided for its design and BMW Z Coupes never really recovered from that.

And when in 2005 timeframe where BMW faced the same dilemma on the Z4, which sold well initially but by the time the LCI was due, was facing nearly the same universal criticism the Z3 did (quirky design, anemic 2.5L I6), and faced with the prospect of the new Z4 M roadster cannibalizing sales from the bread and butter, high margin E46 M3 Convertible, they decided to price the Z4 Ms way above market value. IF memory serves, a bare boned Z4 M Roadster commands almost $54K MSRP while a fully optioned out E46 M3 Vert would cost about $56K. So for the buying public it was a no brainer, they walk into a dealership, see this beautiful, modern roadster with classic proportions, ask about a test drive, only to find out that they're available in MANUAL ONLY, which they don't know how to drive, then shuffled over to the just as attractive, but not as outlandish designed E46 M3 Convertible with SMG that cost about the same, but has 2 additional back seats...Guess which car gets sold off the lot?

So I don't know what came first, the chicken or the egg. Whether BMW decided NOT to put any marketing/advertising efforts behind the Z4 M like they did with the Z3, thus killing sales, or the lack of sales convinced BMW not to put any marketing and advertising efforts behind the Z4 M. All I know is BMW never had any ads in magazines, TV, radio, or events trying to convince the public of what the Z4 M is. But I suspect BMW's marketing team was fully aware (or was convinced) that the 2 seater sports roadster and coupe market is dying. I mean, take a look at the Z8. Instant classic, pinnacle of what everything BMW stood for at the time...Sporty, luxury vehicle that exudes beauty and elegance with menacing muscular intentions. It really was the most beautiful BMW built in the last 50+ years and priced to show.

Yet by the third year of production BMW was forced to acknowledge that without an automatic version they could not justify the production numbers. By year 4 the vast majority of Z8s sold were the Alpina variant with the automatic transmission. Which brings it all back to my original point, that this platform being only offered in a manual was sort of the kiss of death. You can't sell a product where less than 10% of the population actually knows how to use it. All the other M vehicles that came after the E30, at least some time during its production run you have the option or excuse to purchase an "auto."

So we remain the select few that gets to enjoy what is probably the LAST great BMW M car, and no one knows about it. At the end of the day though, the price to buy in (the knowledge and the skills to drive a manual) is high, but the reward is even higher (out of all the BMWs I've ever driven, even the mighty M2 and M3/M4s of today, nothing comes REMOTELY close to what the Z4 Ms give you...A real driving experience).

*Technically, if you wish to split hairs, it's 4 platforms, the Z3 M Roadster and Coupe, and the Z4 M Roadster and Coupe. I'm lumping these in the same series for discussion sake, since none of the 4 chassis offer any sort of automatic or automated manual transmission.

Well said, as usual. I never knew that about the Z3M and Z4M.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by The HACK

It's hard. In the last 35 years only 2* BMW trims ever come ONLY with manual transmission.

Z3 M and Z4 M.

Every other BMW model and trim has at least an automated manual (E46 M3 SMG) or an auto was added later as an option (Z8). Right away you limit the number of people who can actually operate this vehicle down to about 7% of the overall population in North America, what ONCE was the largest market for BMWs.

Even if an automated manual was available for the Z3 M and Z4 M, neither would have sold well enough IMO for them to be sought after. Z3 M, to some extent, was a necessity because the original Z3 was viewed unfavorably as a "hair-dresser's car" because the first models were introduced with a 134hp, 1.8L inline 4. Subsequent "upgrade" in power only bumped it to 180 (2.5L I6) and 225 (3.0L I6), and while adequate, both power plants came at the very end of the product's lifecycle (as did the 240hp S52 powered Z3 M and the 325hp S54 powered Z3 M).

By that time the press has moved on. The same hype and hysteria introduced with "Golden Eye" as a Bond vehicle was picked apart for all its flaws (soft, flexible chassis, under powered engine, quirky style, antiquated rear suspension design). While the Z3 M has retained some die-hard enthusiasts due to its outlandish (at the time) design and the very desirable low production numbers with the S54 engine (something like 800 was produced worldwide?), when the S52 version coupe first came out it was sort of derided for its design and BMW Z Coupes never really recovered from that.

And when in 2005 timeframe where BMW faced the same dilemma on the Z4, which sold well initially but by the time the LCI was due, was facing nearly the same universal criticism the Z3 did (quirky design, anemic 2.5L I6), and faced with the prospect of the new Z4 M roadster cannibalizing sales from the bread and butter, high margin E46 M3 Convertible, they decided to price the Z4 Ms way above market value. IF memory serves, a bare boned Z4 M Roadster commands almost $54K MSRP while a fully optioned out E46 M3 Vert would cost about $56K. So for the buying public it was a no brainer, they walk into a dealership, see this beautiful, modern roadster with classic proportions, ask about a test drive, only to find out that they're available in MANUAL ONLY, which they don't know how to drive, then shuffled over to the just as attractive, but not as outlandish designed E46 M3 Convertible with SMG that cost about the same, but has 2 additional back seats...Guess which car gets sold off the lot?

So I don't know what came first, the chicken or the egg. Whether BMW decided NOT to put any marketing/advertising efforts behind the Z4 M like they did with the Z3, thus killing sales, or the lack of sales convinced BMW not to put any marketing and advertising efforts behind the Z4 M. All I know is BMW never had any ads in magazines, TV, radio, or events trying to convince the public of what the Z4 M is. But I suspect BMW's marketing team was fully aware (or was convinced) that the 2 seater sports roadster and coupe market is dying. I mean, take a look at the Z8. Instant classic, pinnacle of what everything BMW stood for at the time...Sporty, luxury vehicle that exudes beauty and elegance with menacing muscular intentions. It really was the most beautiful BMW built in the last 50+ years and priced to show.

Yet by the third year of production BMW was forced to acknowledge that without an automatic version they could not justify the production numbers. By year 4 the vast majority of Z8s sold were the Alpina variant with the automatic transmission. Which brings it all back to my original point, that this platform being only offered in a manual was sort of the kiss of death. You can't sell a product where less than 10% of the population actually knows how to use it. All the other M vehicles that came after the E30, at least some time during its production run you have the option or excuse to purchase an "auto."

So we remain the select few that gets to enjoy what is probably the LAST great BMW M car, and no one knows about it. At the end of the day though, the price to buy in (the knowledge and the skills to drive a manual) is high, but the reward is even higher (out of all the BMWs I've ever driven, even the mighty M2 and M3/M4s of today, nothing comes REMOTELY close to what the Z4 Ms give you...A real driving experience).

*Technically, if you wish to split hairs, it's 4 platforms, the Z3 M Roadster and Coupe, and the Z4 M Roadster and Coupe. I'm lumping these in the same series for discussion sake, since none of the 4 chassis offer any sort of automatic or automated manual transmission.

Fantastic info as always HACK, thank you!

[SaltyNC]

I had no idea that few people in the US know how to drive a manual. Very interesting. I remember how I first learned. I was at the lake with a college buddy that wore contacts. He got something in his contacts from the lake and had to remove his contacts and was basically blind. He handed me the keys and said, you have to drive us back. I'll never forget the steep hill near the house. I was literally sweating. Used the parking brake trick, and other than a little too high of an engine rev, it was a smooth launch. I always think of that as the equivalent of throwing a non-swimmer into the deep end of the pool.

Thanks for the R8 correction, Twix.

[AriuSen]

i feel so privileged that I am on of the few that knows what a true raw M car feels like.

[bdn3d]

I think this would be a good example of an echo chamber?

HAHA! but i like it!!!

[Beedub]

really interesting... pretty similar experience to what I've just had in a much much more expensive car, and still...... the z4 came out on top.

http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewto...p?f=9&t=100420

[Huz-Z]

Both my wife and I can drive stick. But like Hack says, most folks these days have absolutely no idea how to drive a manual. A work colleague of my wife was feeling under the weather one day and had to leave his manual-shift Porsche 911 at the office and get a cab home. The only person at her office who could drive it home for the guy was my missus. None of the others - a bunch of mostly male engineers who drive huge pick up trucks that can be seen from low earth orbit - had the first clue.

Sad really.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by AriuSen

i feel so privileged that I am on of the few that knows what a true raw M car feels like.

On that front, I got to drive a student's E30 M3 angry on the track once. That car was FUN. You have to keep it wound up or else it's a struggle to churn a decent lap, but oh MAN was it rewarding. Not unlike the MZ4 Coupe chassis, except the visceral feeling is tuned way up because of lack of insulation (despite it being relatively stock at the time). I think the only thing that the E86 body did better than the E30 was the steering was superior, and the power delivery of the S54 was better. I think the closest thing that BMW has built since that got to that "perfection" was the Z3 M Coupe. I think both of those bodies are flawed but it was masked by just how darn "special" they were. In an odd way, the MZ4 Coupe fixed all that and lost a little bit of soul. But I digress.

I also had an opportunity to drive a Lamborghini Diablo, and that car, strangely, evoked the E30 M3. Not because it was down 6 cylinder at the time (the owner had done some work that caused HALF the cylinder banks to not fire after the warm-up lap), but the way it FELT was just so different from all the Gallardos and Murcielagos I drove that day. It truly was stunning how much more raw and connected I felt with the Diablo vs. the Gallardos.

But back to BMWs. I drove the M2 and M3/M4 at Thermal with a few CCA people when they invited the local chapter board members to attend, and there's no denying that this generation of the M is FAST. But it just doesn't quite feel RIGHT. Just as the difference in the Diablo and Gallardo was a shock to the system and the comparative lap times prove which were the faster car, at the end of the day I walked away thinking that I would take the Diablo over any other lambo there that day, and I walked away from the M day at Thermal thinking that if I had the choice, I would still take an E30 M3 over any of the current M offering. Not because it's fast. The E30 M3 isn't that fast in the comparative sense. It's just FUN. It's just an unique experience. And it's just RAW and INVOLVED. Anyone can drive any of the new generation M cars fast. But you have to be skilled to operate the E30 M3 at its potential.

Hence I sit here and argue that the MZ4 Coupe is unique in that same vein. It takes skills to drive the MZ4 Coupe like it's meant to be driven. It's different. It's unique. And at the end of the day, the M2 and M3s may be faster, but it won't be as much FUN.

Off my soap box now.

[AriuSen]

Originally Posted by The HACK

On that front, I got to drive a student's E30 M3 angry on the track once. That car was FUN. You have to keep it wound up or else it's a struggle to churn a decent lap, but oh MAN was it rewarding. Not unlike the MZ4 Coupe chassis, except the visceral feeling is tuned way up because of lack of insulation (despite it being relatively stock at the time). I think the only thing that the E86 body did better than the E30 was the steering was superior, and the power delivery of the S54 was better. I think the closest thing that BMW has built since that got to that "perfection" was the Z3 M Coupe. I think both of those bodies are flawed but it was masked by just how darn "special" they were. In an odd way, the MZ4 Coupe fixed all that and lost a little bit of soul. But I digress.

I also had an opportunity to drive a Lamborghini Diablo, and that car, strangely, evoked the E30 M3. Not because it was down 6 cylinder at the time (the owner had done some work that caused HALF the cylinder banks to not fire after the warm-up lap), but the way it FELT was just so different from all the Gallardos and Murcielagos I drove that day. It truly was stunning how much more raw and connected I felt with the Diablo vs. the Gallardos.

But back to BMWs. I drove the M2 and M3/M4 at Thermal with a few CCA people when they invited the local chapter board members to attend, and there's no denying that this generation of the M is FAST. But it just doesn't quite feel RIGHT. Just as the difference in the Diablo and Gallardo was a shock to the system and the comparative lap times prove which were the faster car, at the end of the day I walked away thinking that I would take the Diablo over any other lambo there that day, and I walked away from the M day at Thermal thinking that if I had the choice, I would still take an E30 M3 over any of the current M offering. Not because it's fast. The E30 M3 isn't that fast in the comparative sense. It's just FUN. It's just an unique experience. And it's just RAW and INVOLVED. Anyone can drive any of the new generation M cars fast. But you have to be skilled to operate the E30 M3 at its potential.

Hence I sit here and argue that the MZ4 Coupe is unique in that same vein. It takes skills to drive the MZ4 Coupe like it's meant to be driven. It's different. It's unique. And at the end of the day, the M2 and M3s may be faster, but it won't be as much FUN.

Off my soap box now.

I agree with every word.
Drove e36 e46 e92 f82 and nothing gets close to the excitement the z4m provides.
Fuck I wanna track now lolol

[m5m3mc]

Great stuff, the HACK. Thank you.