Convertible top motor died!

[bmwclubracer]

This is the second Z4 I've owned and this is the second motor to die on me.

I'm not sure I have the time nor the skill to replace my motor, I just have this feeling I'll have my car ripped apart on the garage floor and not be able to put it back together.

I'm wondering if I should just forget it, pull the red handles in the trunk and just use the top manually, take it to a shop, or do the repair myself. I'd like thoughts on each option. How much can I expect to pay for a repair?

[RossBMWZseries]

My mechanic quoted me about $250 for labor. There's plenty of DIY's on these forums. If you can make the time, I'd say try it yourself. Worst case scenario that you can't put things back together, you take it to a shop.

[Huz-Z]

Folks over on the UK forum will commonly have the new top motor located in the trunk during the repair to prevent the new motor from failing due to water exposure. https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=2

[Diesel_d66]

mine died last year. i tried to put it up/down manually for a while but it was a pain, so i forked over the $1k to get it done. i pulled out the stoppers from both drains after the new motor.

[SaltyNC]

Originally Posted by Huz-Z

Folks over on the UK forum will commonly have the new top motor located in the trunk during the repair to prevent the new motor from failing due to water exposure. https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=2

And they regularly bring dead motors back to life. Evidently, the motors are very robust. One guy that really made the relocation famous soaks the rusty motors in diesel fuel. I can't remember the success rate, but it is very high.

The procedure can be done without removing the top, and you can get cheap endoscopes off eBay that attach to your phone to see what you're doing down in the hole.

This is on my eventual-not-in-any-hurry to-do list.

Salty

[SaltyNC]

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=891687

Here is the guy I was thinking about in Germany:
https://www.pixelrichter.de/

[elerner61]

Salty, can you point us to the procedure that doesn't require removing the top? I haven't seen that one, only Ship's. Thx..

[bmwclubracer]

Originally Posted by elerner61

Salty, can you point us to the procedure that doesn't require removing the top? I haven't seen that one, only Ship's. Thx..

Curious about that too. I might be able to do that myself.

Relocating the motor to the trunk is interesting but not sure I need to as my car lives in the garage. I guess I need to remove the drain channels if I leave the pump where it is?

[SaltyNC]

Originally Posted by elerner61

Salty, can you point us to the procedure that doesn't require removing the top? I haven't seen that one, only Ship's. Thx..

Sure thing. Here ya go:

https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=85311

Salty

[JAS1169]

I actually did the European "thru the trunk" method. DO NOT rely on your red cable to move your top.

I didn't have a lot of options...other than thru the trunk. When my motor died I went thru the regular check steps and then ordered a new motor. When I was about to start the take off the top I pulled the red cable and......nothing it had also failed and I couldn't move the top. (the top must be moveable for it to be taken off). I then found a English BMW Z4 Forum where a person titled LakeduckView posted with pictures on how he went thru the trunk to pull and then relocate the motor to the trunk.

I tried it and it worked.

My only problem was a broken hydo line (it was already really chewed up by the up/down of the top). I tried changing it thru the trunk but I simply lack the finger dexterity need. (they actually can do it thru the trunk in England and Germany).

Again, WARNING on the RED Cable it will fail. I was lucky with top up when it did. There was a guy who post on this or the other BMW Z4 Forum who had his fail top down. He was pleading for help. The top folds down on top of the motor and the hydo lines and the hydo pressure makes it impossible to move the top up. I read in other postings of others in the same boat (top down, motor and emergency release both failed) who went to the dealership and the only way to at least start the top moving again was by cutting hydo lines on each side to release the hydo pressure in the lines.

[bmwclubracer]

Originally Posted by JAS1169

DO NOT rely on your red cable to move your top.

Are you saying if I used the red cable it will break at some point?

[RossBMWZseries]

Originally Posted by bmwclubracer

Are you saying if I used the red cable it will break at some point?

Sounds like that's what he's saying. I wouldn't risk it. Just learn to live with the top up 24/7 until you resolve this issue.

[JAS1169]

Originally Posted by bmwclubracer

Are you saying if I used the red cable it will break at some point?

Hardly, it's the pressure release system within the motor/pump which basically stops working. The cable basically runs to the motor where it, when pulled, pushes a brass ball bearing inwards, inside of the pump section of the motor. It's the brass ball bearing which (because of all of the water on the motor) gets dirt or rust...and becomes frozen.

After I got my pump into the trunk, I had my son in law (who is a weight lifter) do the red cable as I watched the other end at the pump. The red cable would move and the cable at the pump would close .....but the top hydo system simply will not release.


Here are instructions from the lifter remanufacturer regarding moving the convertible motor to the trunk on a z4. However, read section B, pages 11 & 12. He explains RED Cable failure on a Z4.


https://www.tophydraulicsinc.com/bmwz4instructions.pdf

[dc_wright]

Originally Posted by bmwclubracer

Are you saying if I used the red cable it will break at some point?

The corrosion the kills the pump motor often corrodes the relief valve mechanism so it's not unusual to find that when the top motor dies, you can't get the bypass to work either. That's what he's saying....

[bmwclubracer]

Originally Posted by dc_wright

The corrosion the kills the pump motor often corrodes the relief valve mechanism so it's not unusual to find that when the top motor dies, you can't get the bypass to work either. That's what he's saying....

Ok, getting that loud and clear. I'll use the red cable sparingly.

I've determined I won't have the time or expertise to do this. I don't think I'll relocate to the trunk since I'm not sure a mechanic will do it but but should I ask them to remove the drainage hoses when the motor is being replaced? My Z lives in the garage so I don't anticipate replacing another motor.

Do you guys know where I can source the parts? I might have a moonlighting mechanic do it for me.

Thanks guys !

[JAS1169]

Price it out at ECS Tuning ....then using google look for other sources (making sure it's the same OEM motor/Pump) may be you'll do better at another source.

If you wash your car a lot.....the waste water from the top drains on both sides. Including the side with motor......basically the motor is at the bottom of the drain gutter of the car. My car has always been garaged .....washing it was how my motor went out.

[bmwclubracer]

Originally Posted by JAS1169

Price it out at ECS Tuning ....then using google look for other sources (making sure it's the same OEM motor/Pump) may be you'll do better at another source.

If you wash your car a lot.....the waste water from the top drains on both sides. Including the side with motor......basically the motor is at the bottom of the drain gutter of the car. My car has always been garaged .....washing it was how my motor went out.

Thanks. Is there any other parts I might need besides the motor?

Is there anything I can do with the drains to mitigate this or is relocating to the trunk the only thing that would help?

I found a master mechanic who'll do it on the weekend so that should save a few bucks.

[bmwclubracer]

Looks like $510 for the motor
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...f/54347193448/

Here's a seal kit ECS put together, should I get this?
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...t/54347114081/

Should I get new hydraulic lines too?

[JAS1169]

Since your using a pro (paying him) for this rather than d/I/y I'd do the following.

A new motor, as well as the service package. The only reason I'd go with the service package (which I actually did myself) was for the new copper washers which are placed on the banjo bolts holding the lines. Of course, BMW doesn't sell these washers separately.

If your guy's is a pro have him inspect your hydo lines after pulling the top. Then go with his recommendation. They cost about $210.00 a pair....this is sort of why I'm saying have him look them over first.

Relocating the pump requires removing the trunk self and the left bracket for the self. The pump & wires will reach the trunk. Have him notch a cut in the left bracket for the hydo lines and wire and reinstall. Actually, it might be easier then correctly wrapping the lines around the black pump case and reinstalling as it was originally.

[bmwclubracer]

Originally Posted by JAS1169

Since your using a pro (paying him) for this rather than d/I/y I'd do the following.

Thanks.

The guy I'm using is helping somebody build a Z4 club race car and he said I can have his hydraulic pump for $150. I assume I could use his hydraulic lines and other parts if needed. Do you see a pitfall with this? I'm assuming the failure is due to rust and not age or use.

I also sent him the write up on the trunk relocation, he'll give me an estimate for that and traditional repair.

[JAS1169]

If he can build a racer....he's light years ahead of me. I mean the change out as well as, the relocation should be child's play for him.

Here's a very timely (April 5) posting on this subject on the English Z4 Forum.

https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=104971

These English guy's are very clever ....I honestly wouldn't have a clue were to even start if the top, under pressure, was sitting on top of the lines and motor and more than likely would simply sit next to the car and cry.

[bmwclubracer]

Originally Posted by JAS1169

If he can build a racer....he's light years ahead of me. I mean the change out as well as, the relocation should be child's play for him.

He said labor to relocate the pump to the boot would be an extra $200, seems worth it. I do have to buy longer hydraulic lines which will be more but I'm saving a few buck by buying the pump from the race car Z4.