VF570 Supercharger Dyno

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Rated M Roadster

He bought the kit used; not from VF.

That is a valid point for reduced service&warranty.
still I hope the 3rd party tune will work out fine

support is everything with kits like this.
I mean: the 3rd party tune with all the dyno time probably isn't cheap either.

[mfanatic325]

That is correct, I got the kit used and supposedly in good condition with low mileage at cost. It was well within warranty and VF helped, but charged me for it (all of this happened last summer).

If VF had good customer service, they would've comped everything for me, and actually fix the problem. I mean, I even brought the car down to SoCal to their headquarters for inspection. How they missed the fact that it was an outdated blower is beyond me. Due to time and especially money constraints, I could not leave the car with them any longer. They said they could delve deeper into it but would have to charge me even more than what they were already

In any case, they knew their tune was crap but did nothing about it. The fact that the car ran 3x better with Frank Smith's very first test tune says everything. I'm now just doing more datalogging sessions and sending files back and forth with Frank to iron out the last bit of drivability faults.

Frank has tuned another VF-supercharged Z4M in Texas and that kit, albeit a 480 kit was making the same power as what my car was making down @ VF headquarters. I have nothing but disrespect for VF Engineering as a whole from my personal experiences. It's a shame that their hardware is so good

[Rated M Roadster]

Originally Posted by mfanatic325

It was well within warranty and VF helped, but charged me for it (all of this happened last summer).

The first requirement for maintaining warranty on any VF product is that "you must be the original purchaser." Unless something was worked out with VF, you never had a warranty.

[mfanatic325]

Originally Posted by Rated M Roadster

The first requirement for maintaining warranty on any VF product is that "you must be the original purchaser." Unless something was worked out with VF, you never had a warranty.

I understand that. Hence why, I paid for their services. However, they didn't fix shit. And they refused to reprogram their software even though they knew it was garbage. I've driven a VF625 supercharged E92 M3 and the tune for that kit was flawless. Why? Because Nik owns an M3 himself, and because the M3 crowd has a larger community.
That's fine and all, except...don't release a kit if it's not ready. And even if it's not ready, at least have good customer support for it. It was ridiculous trying to get a hold of them on the phone and through emails

[ZStig]

who the hell is Frank?

[mfanatic325]

Originally Posted by ZStig

who the hell is Frank?

lol Frank Smith. He's a software guru and does custom tuning for various types of cars.

[Finnegan]

Well, I know what supercharger I will not be considering.

Warranty or not customer service says all you need to know about a company.

I'm very happy to see it's finally performing--but the rids you've travelled has been no fun.

[Rated M Roadster]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

customer service says all you need to know about a company.

VF has been nothing but amazing to deal with and I'm sure some of that has to do with the fact that the customer (myself) is understanding, patient, and doesn't bash the company on forums. Having followed his build from the beginning as well as having given tons of advice during the whole process, I can understand VF's willingness to offer support...

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by mfanatic325

It was ridiculous trying to get a hold of them on the phone and through emails

There's no excuse for that. As a company one should always give their best to help a customer/user. There's one thing worse than not fixing a problem, and that's not trying to.

(and in the end that will bite you (as a company) in this day of internet communications. I always say: support is everything)

If you paid for their service with the understanding that they would fix your problem, than they should keep their end of the deal.
Or at least give you a realistic prognosis on how to proceed further.
(I don't know what deal you made with them)

[chickdr]

Originally Posted by Rated M Roadster

VF has been nothing but amazing to deal with and I'm sure some of that has to do with the fact that the customer (myself) is understanding, patient, and doesn't bash the company on forums. Having followed his build from the beginning as well as having given tons of advice during the whole process, I can understand VF's willingness to offer support...

Based on your responses so far, you are obviously far from objective in this matter. The facts: VF offered (then rescinded) to upgrade his blower when it was found to be the incorrect(older/inferior) model from what the kit was supposed to have. He HAS had trouble getting responses from VF through normal channels. It is irrelevant if he is the first or second owner of the kit as VF offered help and he PAID for said help since it was a secondhand kit. This has left a bad taste in his mouth. Your bashing folks who agree with him doesn't help your position...

[tikamak]

Looks like the evolve supercharger kit is on its way i'd hang in for that. Buying ESS is pointless as well ...

S54 comes alive with a rotrex, a vortech is a mustang (Big displacement, full power on low RPM) supercharger.

This is coming from an ESS owner that would tear the kit down if money is no object.

[Beedub]

Originally Posted by tikamak

Looks like the evolve supercharger kit is on its way i'd hang in for that. Buying ESS is pointless as well ...

S54 comes alive with a rotrex, a vortech is a mustang (Big displacement, full power on low RPM) supercharger.

This is coming from an ESS owner that would tear the kit down if money is no object.

i respectfully disagree :-) it ALL boils down to install, my kit has been FLAWLESS since day one, and is used properly.... can't fault it at all.....

I do have a problem with how ESS are as people however, they have BECOME grade A wankers, but their kits are solid and the hard-ware is top notch, minor tweaks needed to make these proper track worthy, hell tonster used his vt2-500 kit and was winning actual championships with it, do a google search.

The Vortech matches the character of the s54 , rev it for more power... perfect...
if i want a Tq monster id do a turbo build... Fuck centrifugal S/C if midrange is what you crave..... personally i don't...

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Beedub

they have BECOME grade A wankers,

In what way?
What I've experienced is that they are sometimes sloppy when you order parts (they foreget something to include, or when you ask for something they forget to send it), but I've always had the idea that they really want to help and want to provide service if something is not running properly.
Most of my dealings were with Hans (ess norway)

Contact by mail for info is also good (mostly with AJ)

But I've had not that many technical issues with my kit (the only thing was running on altitude was bad (10+ emergency drop outs per day, similar like the z4m braking issue), but that has been solved when I installed Schrick cams, and got a new (ESS)tune).

ESS hardware merits (at least partly):
http://www.esstuning.com/pages/Loaded-CSL.html
(faster than a Zonda F/Carrera GT on the nordschleife )

[Beedub]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

In what way?
What I've experienced is that they are sometimes sloppy when you order parts (they foreget something to include, or when you ask for something they forget to send it), but I've always had the idea that they really want to help and want to provide service if something is not running properly.
Most of my dealings were with Hans (ess norway)

Contact by mail for info is also good (mostly with AJ)

But I've had not that many technical issues with my kit (the only thing was running on altitude was bad (10+ emergency drop outs per day, similar like the z4m braking issue), but that has been solved when I installed Schrick cams, and got a new (ESS)tune).

ESS hardware merits (at least partly):
http://www.esstuning.com/pages/Loaded-CSL.html
(faster than a Zonda F/Carrera GT on the nordschleife )

Theirs a long list as to why i feel that way about them and only a a few of them are personal, i will Stress however their kit has been nothing short of incredible from day one, and not one reliability issue.... power and consistent strong performance!!

[beta]

Originally Posted by Rated M Roadster

VF has been nothing but amazing to deal with and I'm sure some of that has to do with the fact that the customer (myself) is understanding, patient, and doesn't bash the company on forums. Having followed his build from the beginning as well as having given tons of advice during the whole process, I can understand VF's willingness to offer support...

Mfan is one of the easiest to deal with and nicest guys I know. He has been more than patient with VF. Did you miss the part where he took it to their headquarters and paid for them to fix it?

The total money and time spent on this kit would've probably paid for a turbocharger install. I would've not been nearly as patient.

[Rated M Roadster]

Originally Posted by beta

Did you miss the part where he took it to their headquarters and paid for them to fix it?

Having talked to Lon almost daily during both the install and throughout the whole process, I think I have a far better understanding of what has happened than you.

[tikamak]

Originally Posted by Beedub

i respectfully disagree :-) it ALL boils down to install, my kit has been FLAWLESS since day one, and is used properly.... can't fault it at all.....

I do have a problem with how ESS are as people however, they have BECOME grade A wankers, but their kits are solid and the hard-ware is top notch, minor tweaks needed to make these proper track worthy, hell tonster used his vt2-500 kit and was winning actual championships with it, do a google search.

The Vortech matches the character of the s54 , rev it for more power... perfect...
if i want a Tq monster id do a turbo build... Fuck centrifugal S/C if midrange is what you crave..... personally i don't...

The rotrex supercharger is a better supercharger for an S54, drive one and let me know, i'm not saying that the vortech superchager is not good, i'm saying the rotrex is better, much better. especially the C38-91. My god, that's a blown car. My car feels like a snail next to that.

Statements:
Making a kit with injectors on 90% duty cycle is not a good supercharger kit.
Supplying a kit that is rated @ 525 crank HP with an oil cooler rated at 480 HP is not a good supercharger kit, as well as having the oil feed from up top rather from below.
Not supplying colder plugs to a supercharger kit is not a good supercharger kit,
etc ...

I just need you to acknowledge the above statements as those are scientific and objective statements, we keep having those arguments and i just want to establish some common ground. you didn't pay 700$ for an ESS kit, you paid 8k-9k for that kit ... you should expect not to have to think about what can be done better in your car to make the ESS kit work.

I know the amount of parts you have removed from ESS kit and installed from a different supplier for some better reliability, so what you have is not an ESS kit, it's an ESS modified kit like i am HAVING to do with mine.

[mfanatic325]

Beta is right, I've been more than lenient with VF through this whole ordeal. I have given them multiple chances and they've let me down repeatedly. I've wasted a lot of funding with them for no good reason. My personal experience with VF has been God-awful and I definitely would not stick around patiently with their shitty service and tune if I were to do it all over again. I DO NOT recommend VF to anyone for this alone. I do believe VF's hardware is good however, and I would still recommend their kits just for the hardware. But I will not be caught dead supporting their business practices.

RatedM, I'm not sure what you worked out with VF, but I'm glad that at least you're happy with their service and tune and how your personal car is running. I do resent the fact that you refused to help me when I was trying to diagnose my idle-hunt and drivability issues. I specifically and politely requested quick video recordings of your idle and part-throttle engagement, but you ignored me. It's not like it would've taken much of your effort, and overall would've helped me out tremendously. That's why even though I appreciate your help during my initial install process, I cannot consider us friends anymore. You shunned me just because you were taken care of, and I was not happy that I didn't get the same treatment. I have lost respect for you because of all this.

[Beedub]

Originally Posted by tikamak

The rotrex supercharger is a better supercharger for an S54, drive one and let me know, i'm not saying that the vortech superchager is not good, i'm saying the rotrex is better, much better. especially the C38-91. My god, that's a blown car. My car feels like a snail next to that.

Statements:
Making a kit with injectors on 90% duty cycle is not a good supercharger kit.
Supplying a kit that is rated @ 525 crank HP with an oil cooler rated at 480 HP is not a good supercharger kit, as well as having the oil feed from up top rather from below.
Not supplying colder plugs to a supercharger kit is not a good supercharger kit,
etc ...

I just need you to acknowledge the above statements as those are scientific and objective statements, we keep having those arguments and i just want to establish some common ground. you didn't pay 700$ for an ESS kit, you paid 8k-9k for that kit ... you should expect not to have to think about what can be done better in your car to make the ESS kit work.

I know the amount of parts you have removed from ESS kit and installed from a different supplier for some better reliability, so what you have is not an ESS kit, it's an ESS modified kit like i am HAVING to do with mine.

tika.... take a seat...

now.... I'm not talking about the rotrex vs vortech argument, so keep that out of the conversation, I'm saying for ME, yes me, Byron ( yup thats me again) the vortech suits and delivers exactly what I'm after, end of conversation.

i HAVE indeed removed ALOT of ess parts, upgraded, changed, swapped parts of original kit ( that I've owned longer than most s/c owners btw) to the point where its not much ess parts left, this was due to the use my car see's and me being the typical anal owner that wants perfection, 99% of people will strap on this kit, cruise around all day long and enjoy, I've been using the thing on all day track days where the stock car would struggle, so limitations have been reached on a lot of the supplied parts...
however i agree my kit is very much a modded version right down to the silicon couplers I've changed... The plugs i use are still stock and this WORKS, when mine need changing ill swap into a cooler heat range, but thats a minor.

now I'm FAR from the ess flag waver i once was, something about them is just off and they became a victim of their own success imo.... but honestly the kit for what they advertise it for is fine, i don't want to bash what has served me so well for all these years and has given me little problems, i can't argue with its record with me, the facts don't lie.

BUT honestly..... my car works, works very well and performs faultlessly i can't really ask for anything else. Id like to change the injectors however,

know what this REALLY boils down to if your really that unhappy, sell it and buy something else. simple.

Nothing out the box will be perfect, thats why your strapping an after market blower to your lovely ///M car, and why we all change parts on a car the ///M division spent millions on testing. :thump:

[Beedub]

Originally Posted by mfanatic325

Beta is right, I've been more than lenient with VF through this whole ordeal. I have given them multiple chances and they've let me down repeatedly. I've wasted a lot of funding with them for no good reason. My personal experience with VF has been God-awful and I definitely would not stick around patiently with their shitty service and tune if I were to do it all over again. I DO NOT recommend VF to anyone for this alone. I do believe VF's hardware is good however, and I would still recommend their kits just for the hardware. But I will not be caught dead supporting their business practices.

RatedM, I'm not sure what you worked out with VF, but I'm glad that at least you're happy with their service and tune and how your personal car is running. I do resent the fact that you refused to help me when I was trying to diagnose my idle-hunt and drivability issues. I specifically and politely requested quick video recordings of your idle and part-throttle engagement, but you ignored me. It's not like it would've taken much of your effort, and overall would've helped me out tremendously. That's why even though I appreciate your help during my initial install process, I cannot consider us friends anymore. You shunned me just because you were taken care of, and I was not happy that I didn't get the same treatment. I have lost respect for you because of all this.

hard words but respect for being a man and saying it in the correct manner, not throwing pussy ass insults.

[tikamak]

Originally Posted by Beedub

tika.... take a seat...

now.... I'm not talking about the rotrex vs vortech argument, so keep that out of the conversation, I'm saying for ME, yes me, Byron ( yup thats me again) the vortech suits and delivers exactly what I'm after, end of conversation.

i HAVE indeed removed ALOT of ess parts, upgraded, changed, swapped parts of original kit ( that I've owned longer than most s/c owners btw) to the point where its not much ess parts left, this was due to the use my car see's and me being the typical anal owner that wants perfection, 99% of people will strap on this kit, cruise around all day long and enjoy, I've been using the thing on all day track days where the stock car would struggle, so limitations have been reached on a lot of the supplied parts...
however i agree my kit is very much a modded version right down to the silicon couplers I've changed... The plugs i use are still stock and this WORKS, when mine need changing ill swap into a cooler heat range, but thats a minor.

now I'm FAR from the ess flag waver i once was, something about them is just off and they became a victim of their own success imo.... but honestly the kit for what they advertise it for is fine, i don't want to bash what has served me so well for all these years and has given me little problems, i can't argue with its record with me, the facts don't lie.

BUT honestly..... my car works, works very well and performs faultlessly i can't really ask for anything else. Id like to change the injectors however,

know what this REALLY boils down to if your really that unhappy, sell it and buy something else. simple.

Nothing out the box will be perfect, thats why your strapping an after market blower to your lovely ///M car, and why we all change parts on a car the ///M division spent millions on testing. :thump:

What's take a seat mean? why do you talk shit i don't understand ?

Anyway, you are probably the reason why i bought this supercharger while i didn't know that in order to use the kit the way that i want to use it, i must pay so much in terms of money, stress, exchanging of parts and testing stuff out to make it work. I hate that you throw comments on your perfect kit that is very far from an ESS kit making people think that ESS will provide this to them if they chose this kit. So i'm here to clarify to all the future owners, DON'T buy this kit based on beedub's comment, do you research first.

I am happy with this kit but i would never ever recommend it to anyone. as simple as that.

Now back to the original comment i have made regarding the rotrex, evolve might be able to provide a PROPER kit that works 100% of the time in every single use you could imagine and that also happens to use a rotrex C38-91 which will make you very happy.

Please don't reply byron, i have no quarrel with you except that i kind of bought this shitty kit due to your perky happy comments that doesn't reflect the amount of work you had to put into it to turn it into a respectable kit.

[DasGerman]

Originally Posted by Beedub

Nothing out the box will be perfect,

For $9K++ I'd damn near expect close to perfect. I'd CERTAINLY expect NOT to have to replace simple things such as shitty clamps, wrong injectors & plugs etc (which are the ABC's of going FI with every other manufacturer).