ESS VT2-500 Supercharger Kit Installed! Impressions, pictures, video.

[iPhoneEngineer]

Originally Posted by Beedub

where i think a experience shop like aleks went wrong was to do no boost checks?? WTF?? and also you simply should have never been allowed to drive off without the proper parts, but to not check for leaks on a newly installed FI system is unforgivable imo..... youve subsequently had to pay other shops for addition work which again is unexceptable on your part and im genuinely Pissed off you for,.......

iphone @ what point was it determined that you only running 3psi?? i saw 5psi on your gauge??

iphone how about this for an idea??? possible that their is a slice in your silicon pipework?? its holding boost to a certain pressure due to the gentle way a centri builds boost then under higher boost the slice open letting ALL the air out the system?? feasible??

i think ALL your boost pipework needs to be removed..... and inspected, its now the only option, reset adaptions and work from that point, one thing is will say is im not to keen on the stock BPV/BOV supplied by vortech with these kits.

To be fair, I didn't have to pay for the work at HG Motorsports to install the correct pulley. But I've yet to be reimbursed for the eBay IC pipe (not yet installed) or the $125 dyno run session (never mind the 3 1/2 hours it took to get there and back to work).

HG Motorsports tested the car at 3PSI before the pulley change, 5PSI after, and allegedly 6.5PSI once a couple boost leaks found via smoke testing were fixed. Of course, I've never seen more than 5PSI on a remotely-trustable gauge; the dynojet boost graph is clearly bogus. Of course the 5PSI I am seeing is with the new pulley and the "original" two leaks supposedly fixed.

I'm really not sure how a silicone coupler could be cut that badly, or if the physics would work that way, but it's certainly a possibility. I can only hope that it would be something so simple even though such damage probably won't be easy to find; it should at least be possible without bringing the car to AZ, say by pressurizing the whole system by removing the filter.

Do you have a preferred BPV/BOV option? I am also dissatisfied with the BPV (no fault of ESS or the install) and so have a replacement on my mind for the near future.

[iPhoneEngineer]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

[...]

I just think ESS should be a bit better about ensuring the right parts/instructions go to installers, and if installers haven't done a Z4M before they clearly lay out the challenges and differences to other cars/kits, and/or provide specialized training on this install. It's really not fair to throw an installer into unknown and difficult territory like this without more support (and proper parts/instructions).

[...]

Back on topic, I again want to stress that I'm looking forward to the point where these issues are resolved and you're a very happy Z4M -s/c owner! This is one of those things that I'm thinking about having done long-term to my car, and I appreciate all of you guys (Beedub, Chris, Roffle, you) who are blazing into new territory with all the inherent wrinkles, twists, issues, and eventual resolutions!

Absolutely. I have a feeling that ESS is coming to realize this at least recently, as they have to deal with fallout from preventable install mistakes. It seems like the relationship between "ESS Dealers" and ESS itself is not as tight as one would expect.

I'm certainly used to alpha- and beta-testing new and buggy products, and enjoy being on the bleeding edge in most cases--though it's somewhat less comfortable when resolutions to issues are out of my direct influence and control, since the stock DME for example is so inaccessible compared to aftermarket ECUs or iOS programming that I'm used to. So in that sense the toughest part is waiting on the next reply from ESS to move forward.

Hopefully the present issue is the last before I can experience the kit in a polished state, and isn't a complete nightmare to debug. I'll continue with the updates here as they occur.

[ZStig]

iphone, I think if your issues are not worked out, you should ship your car over to ess at arizona : /

[iPhoneEngineer]

Originally Posted by Roffle Waffle

iphone, I think if your issues are not worked out, you should ship your car over to ess at arizona : /

Ship?! God, I can't imagine how much that would cost, or be that confident it wouldn't be substantially damaged by being bottomed out or otherwise abused in the process.

If the issue can't be fixed at Alekshop, I don't think I have much of an option but to bring the car to AZ, but that's such a substantially more depressing outcome I'd rather not worry about it until such a thing comes to pass.

[Beedub]

iphone, awesome attitude :-)

Re the slice in a coupler?? maybe it got caught on a sharp piece in the engine bay?? trust me easily done ;-)

Re the BPV the flange style is HKS/Greddy so along as you choose a unit that offers bonnet clearance, no problem, i would have no problem at all but the BPV seems to be a very fiddly piece to get right.

looking forward to ESS's reply and finally getting this car sorted.

[iPhoneEngineer]

So no reply from ESS today, despite a reminder email. [EDIT: Just got a mail asking to confirm my S/C pulley size, which I've confirmed to the best of my abilities to be the correct ~83mm]

I checked out the VT2-625 thread in the M3 forum that a few people have mentioned, and while the symptoms seem pretty similar, a diagnosis doesn't seem any more imminent than in my case; prodigymb hasn't even posted a dyno yet. The most encouraging suggestion I heard was that the vacuum line to the BPV could be pinched or otherwise obstructed and cause symptoms like mine, but I checked the line and didn't find a problem.

Of all things at this point I am most concerned about the fact that the tune continues to struggle at normal driving RPMs. The dyno and my boost logging doesn't necessarily indicate a significant issue until higher RPM, but I continue to experience rough running and driveline jerking at part-throttle deceleration.

As I've mentioned, my commute consists of an intensely winding mountain road which must be taken primarily in 3rd gear with some sections of 2nd and 4th. Just as soon as one corner is over and the throttle is squeezed to get to the next, one must be easing off the throttle again to prepare for the next. This really brings out the issues noted in normal city driving including pops in the exhaust and driveline jerks due to inconsistent engine output during deceleration, and it's a major drag on my drive because it is so difficult to avoid without driving unnaturally. I'm really not sure what could be causing such a problem because it doesn't seem like the Alpha-N tune should be struggling so much due to a boost leak when intake boost is low at these engine speeds, and with the throttles mostly closed it shouldn't matter as much anyway (my boost gauge still showed a vacuum in such conditions).

[Beedub]

Originally Posted by iPhoneEngineer

So no reply from ESS today, despite a reminder email. [EDIT: Just got a mail asking to confirm my S/C pulley size, which I've confirmed to the best of my abilities to be the correct ~83mm]

I checked out the VT2-625 thread in the M3 forum that a few people have mentioned, and while the symptoms seem pretty similar, a diagnosis doesn't seem any more imminent than in my case; prodigymb hasn't even posted a dyno yet. The most encouraging suggestion I heard was that the vacuum line to the BPV could be pinched or otherwise obstructed and cause symptoms like mine, but I checked the line and didn't find a problem.

Of all things at this point I am most concerned about the fact that the tune continues to struggle at normal driving RPMs. The dyno and my boost logging doesn't necessarily indicate a significant issue until higher RPM, but I continue to experience rough running and driveline jerking at part-throttle deceleration.

As I've mentioned, my commute consists of an intensely winding mountain road which must be taken primarily in 3rd gear with some sections of 2nd and 4th. Just as soon as one corner is over and the throttle is squeezed to get to the next, one must be easing off the throttle again to prepare for the next. This really brings out the issues noted in normal city driving including pops in the exhaust and driveline jerks due to inconsistent engine output during deceleration, and it's a major drag on my drive because it is so difficult to avoid without driving unnaturally. I'm really not sure what could be causing such a problem because it doesn't seem like the Alpha-N tune should be struggling so much due to a boost leak when intake boost is low at these engine speeds, and with the throttles mostly closed it shouldn't matter as much anyway (my boost gauge still showed a vacuum in such conditions).

yeah i agree with that actually...... it shouldnt be running rough as this car is out of boost....... i think your file needs to be sent to ess for them to check it over.......

i must stress one of my favorite bits of my kit was the low speed drive which was better than the stock car ever was and silky smooth.

definatly in for ESS next response....

[ZStig]

prodigymb is my friend actually, and we used my bpv to improve the conditions on that e92 m3. Motherfucker pulls like crazy on top of 3rd gear. He didn't get to the dyno that day, they're still figuring things out with the car, but one of the issues was that the adjustment bolt up top was not adjusted properly, and they finally found a boost leak around the meth line fitting

I'll ask him for more info today

[iPhoneEngineer]

ESS replied again last night and wants me to send in the DME before bringing the car back to a shop. I'm trying to confirm I can't do any helpful diagnosis/rewriting with my Direct Flash unit since it's tough to be without a car.

Anyone know of a guide to removing the DME? I assume it's behind the glovebox or something.

[ZStig]

#1 disconnect battery first

The dme is in the corner near the firewall, driver's side IIRC. There's a black plastic cover on it with a 45 degree angle, secured by 6 or so star bit screws. Once you take that off, you'll see the computer. Remove a few clipped on cables that arc over it, then pull the main black plastic connector from the side of the dme. Then its kinda clipped on into a housing, and pulls straight up

I'd assume they SHOULD be able to re-tune with your Direct Flash unit. Heck, I might even ask to borrow it if ESS doesn't come through for me

[Beedub]

Originally Posted by iPhoneEngineer

ESS replied again last night and wants me to send in the DME before bringing the car back to a shop. I'm trying to confirm I can't do any helpful diagnosis/rewriting with my Direct Flash unit since it's tough to be without a car.

Anyone know of a guide to removing the DME? I assume it's behind the glovebox or something.

removing the dme is easy....

the black box directly behind your coolant tank, the 4 Torx screws, unclip and pull out, you'll then have your dme in your hands :-)

overnight this bad boi and you'll have it their the next day ;-) im taking ess are covering costs for you?

seems they are going to delve into your dme an tune themselves, they'll get your tune sorted properly :-) if thats whre the problem lies ;-)

[Beedub]

the inital flash has to be done by the certified tuner or ess, subsequent tunes can be done via your flash tuner, im guessing they need to run some tests on your DME.

[Beedub]

BTW the flas tuner CANNOT reset adaptions

[Beedub]

imo we ALL should have gotten a flash tuner free with our kit, i dont understand why iphone did and we didnt??

[iPhoneEngineer]

Originally Posted by Beedub

imo we ALL should have gotten a flash tuner free with our kit, i dont understand why iphone did and we didnt??

I didn't get a free one--I purchased the Direct Flash unit with ESS' N/A tune a couple months before making the leap to the VT2-500.

Yes, I can confirm the DF can't do the initial programming, because they need to rewrite the entire "operating system" of the DME (so I heard from AJ). I'm pretty surprised it wouldn't be able to reset adaptations, though, as my understanding was that even uploading a new tune does exactly that.

I will investigate getting the DME out and overnighting it once I can arrange alternative transportation. I'll probably be able to send it tomorrow morning...

Beedub, what do you mean by the coolant tank? Isn't the DME accessed from the interior, not the engine compartment?

Any recommendations for safely packaging the DME? Should I just have it packed up at a FedEx office? It's my implicit assumption that ESS will be covering costs, but there's been no discussion of it and I'm not sure if they plan to reimburse me for the diagnostic dyno (I knew it wouldn't make good power, and so otherwise wouldn't have wasted the money on it).

[Beedub]

iphone ESS should be covering costs for some of this and i feel you need to clarify this for your own sake.

the dme is accessed from the engine bay behind the coolant tank.........

taken from google.



btw the ess flash tool cant reset adaptions ;-)

[iPhoneEngineer]

It was much harder getting out the DME than I expected. I'm not sure what I did wrong, but it was extremely difficult to get the silver DME box out of the white plastic mounting hardware even after successfully removing the black plastic clip/cover. The white part itself came loose, apparently sort of just nestled in a larger, stationary white plastic bit, and wires even lead out the bottom of it in addition to every side, so it was very difficult to maneuver the DME enough to disconnect the cables even once I dislodged it from the white mount! I absolutely dread getting it back in.

Will overnight it to ESS tomorrow morning. ESS will be paying for this but is essentially saying it is between me and Aleks to resolve any boost leaks, as he is responsible for the mechanical installation. I also sense I will be required to find another DynoJet with a working boost plotting system and have to pay for more runs there.

[Beedub]

Originally Posted by iPhoneEngineer

It was much harder getting out the DME than I expected. I'm not sure what I did wrong, but it was extremely difficult to get the silver DME box out of the white plastic mounting hardware even after successfully removing the black plastic clip/cover. The white part itself came loose, apparently sort of just nestled in a larger, stationary white plastic bit, and wires even lead out the bottom of it in addition to every side, so it was very difficult to maneuver the DME enough to disconnect the cables even once I dislodged it from the white mount! I absolutely dread getting it back in.

Will overnight it to ESS tomorrow morning. ESS will be paying for this but is essentially saying it is between me and Aleks to resolve any boost leaks, as he is responsible for the mechanical installation. I also sense I will be required to find another DynoJet with a working boost plotting system and have to pay for more runs there.

ive had mine out numerous times without a problem.... packing wise just go over the top and mark extremely fragile. Honestly from now on forget constantly paying for dyno runs, keep tweaking and use your mecanical gauge :-)only pay for another run when ALL boost leaks have been solved and you want to get your power runs in, i cant see the point of spending good money after bad....

iphone, work really hard to search for your boost leak, look for a sliced coupler, look for bad hose clips that have been overtightened and damaged, check the connections UNDER the intake mani and really get these tight.
Another big leak possibility is the intake mani couplers to the throttle bodies...

keep us all updated please

[ZStig]

yeah those intake manifold couplers are a bit shorter than I'd like

[iPhoneEngineer]

DME shipped, scheduled to arrive before 10:30AM tomorrow. Shipping was a plainly insane $144, probably in part due to a $1k declared value (most likely not enough to buy a new DME if they lose it, anyway!), and a slightly-oversized box since they didn't have the ideally-sized one available. However downtime of a daily driver car is "expensive" in its own right so it has to be rushed.

I will look over the visible piping connectors again tonight but it seems to me the majority of the suspect work is obscured inside the bumper area...

[Beedub]

Originally Posted by iPhoneEngineer

DME shipped, scheduled to arrive before 10:30AM tomorrow. Shipping was a plainly insane $144, probably in part due to a $1k declared value (most likely not enough to buy a new DME if they lose it, anyway!), and a slightly-oversized box since they didn't have the ideally-sized one available. However downtime of a daily driver car is "expensive" in its own right so it has to be rushed.

I will look over the visible piping connectors again tonight but it seems to me the majority of the suspect work is obscured inside the bumper area...

its always the way... all the bits you really want to see/check are hidden in the front bumper, i had my bumper off and re-torqued all my hose clips and infact found a broken one :-) remember 70% of the common leak points are all very easily accesible...... yeah thats shipping is about right imo..... least you'll have the dme thoroughly reviewed by the right people.

[johanness]

Originally Posted by Beedub

BTW the flas tuner CANNOT reset adaptions

Which is ridiculous. Any handheld tuner I've owned has been able to reset adaptations