high pressure water car wash

[soeharyo]

I am wondering whether high pressure water car wash would damage paint or would it be relatively safe? Will it scratch after multiple use?

TIA

[BlackSapphireZ]

ur aight

[Andrewinla]

Speaking of washing.

I have washed my car in different locations and checked my tire pressure.

The water on the hatch always pools on the right side of the rear window.....
Is my car lopsided?

[GeorgeT]

Never, ever use a high pressure car wash if you plan on keeping the car for any length of time (in my opinion, any BMW should be hand washed). High pressure spray forces water and debris into cracks and seams that dry out very slowly where rust is likely to form.

[rc'Z]

Originally Posted by soeharyo

I am wondering whether high pressure water car wash would damage paint or would it be relatively safe? Will it scratch after multiple use?

TIA

It depends on how high the pressure is and how clean the water is. I used the "25 cent " car wash for years and never had a problem. In industry, we used high pressure water to strip paint from machine tools.

Originally Posted by Andrewinla

Speaking of washing.

I have washed my car in different locations and checked my tire pressure.

The water on the hatch always pools on the right side of the rear window.....
Is my car lopsided?

That's they way they are built.

[BigLeo48]

Originally Posted by GeorgeT

Never, ever use a high pressure car wash if you plan on keeping the car for any length of time (in my opinion, any BMW should be hand washed). High pressure spray forces water and debris into cracks and seams that dry out very slowly where rust is likely to form.

As a carwash and Z4MC, I actually find it very interesting to read people's opinions on carwashes and how they may or may not affect their car's finish.

First, high pressure can harm your car if it's to high and focused. As was mentioned, you can use high pressure water to cut through 1/2" steel. However, this is not the case in a carwash. The fan pattern is such that it diffuses most of the strength to the point that it is benign to your paint. What you do get in a car wash is a higher per gallon/minute rate that home high pressure units. My self-serve bays are set to 4.5 gallons/minute at 1200PSI with a 25055 tip. Four inches away from the tip it won't even hurt your skin.

Second, high pressure is only a small part of cleaning a car. Soap cleans the car (loosens the soil off the paint) and HP blows it off.

Lastly, paint now a days is water based and so is very soft and easy to scratch. The less you touch the better. Many studies have been done by various car manufacturers to determine the affect of home hand carwashing and the reality is that the vast majority do not understand car paint, detergents and the soils and so damage their cars finish in the process (not to mention environmental damage). It ranges from using the wrong chemicals or the right ones under mixed (and so way too strong), to friction micro scratches cause by small particles of dirt caught in shammies, wool mitts, micro fiber cloths...to just plain stupid stuff (and that's a long list).

Without getting personal about it, the above comment is ridiculous! Dude, driving does that! Applying the correct soaps for the soil (alkaline and acidic presoaks) will loosen this dirt so it can be removed with high pressure/volume water impact. Then waxing the car will prevent the paint from getting damaged.

At my carwash, I use softened filtered and tempered water, commercial grade brand name detergents, mixed and titrated to the correct levels for current soils (dirt found on cars changes with the seasons and so requires frequent tweaking).

I have owned many high end cars in my day...I have many regulars with very high end cars. I wash them 3 or 4 times a week...never damaged mine or theirs. I would love to take my Paint Meter and magnifying glass to you car...I think you'd change your mind in a hurry.

BigLeo

[enlightenment]

Originally Posted by BigLeo48

As a carwash and Z4MC, I actually find it very interesting to read people's opinions on carwashes and how they may or may not affect their car's finish.

First, high pressure can harm your car if it's to high and focused. As was mentioned, you can use high pressure water to cut through 1/2" steel. However, this is not the case in a carwash. The fan pattern is such that it diffuses most of the strength to the point that it is benign to your paint. What you do get in a car wash is a higher per gallon/minute rate that home high pressure units. My self-serve bays are set to 4.5 gallons/minute at 1200PSI with a 25055 tip. Four inches away from the tip it won't even hurt your skin.

Second, high pressure is only a small part of cleaning a car. Soap cleans the car (loosens the soil off the paint) and HP blows it off.

Lastly, paint now a days is water based and so is very soft and easy to scratch. The less you touch the better. Many studies have been done by various car manufacturers to determine the affect of home hand carwashing and the reality is that the vast majority do not understand car paint, detergents and the soils and so damage their cars finish in the process (not to mention environmental damage). It ranges from using the wrong chemicals or the right ones under mixed (and so way too strong), to friction micro scratches cause by small particles of dirt caught in shammies, wool mitts, micro fiber cloths...to just plain stupid stuff (and that's a long list).

Without getting personal about it, the above comment is ridiculous! Dude, driving does that! Applying the correct soaps for the soil (alkaline and acidic presoaks) will loosen this dirt so it can be removed with high pressure/volume water impact. Then waxing the car will prevent the paint from getting damaged.

At my carwash, I use softened filtered and tempered water, commercial grade brand name detergents, mixed and titrated to the correct levels for current soils (dirt found on cars changes with the seasons and so requires frequent tweaking).

I have owned many high end cars in my day...I have many regulars with very high end cars. I wash them 3 or 4 times a week...never damaged mine or theirs. I would love to take my Paint Meter and magnifying glass to you car...I think you'd change your mind in a hurry.

BigLeo

Good Post

[jlstyle]

Well it's just a car. Even if I owned a ferrari, I would say the same thing.
Just don't go to the ghetto places where they recycle the water.
But, if you have convertible, don't get high pressure car wash too often as it might damage weather strip.

[GeorgeT]

WOW!!!! I'll still never use a high pressure car wash on my cars and if you are welcome to examine the paint on my cars any time.

[BigLeo48]

Originally Posted by GeorgeT

WOW!!!! I'll still never use a high pressure car wash on my cars and if you are welcome to examine the paint on my cars any time.

You don't need high pressure if you up the size of the water droplets to increase the impact...but that would be a huge waste of water (and not something SC has in great supply these days with a state wide drought). You can also clay bar more often or do what you want...it's your cars. What I was mostly referring to is that many people have opinions and methods on how to clean their cars. Unfortunately, the vast majority of them are based mostly on urban myth and not education, science and fact (like your original posting). Car washing is chemistry...it takes the right soap, dwell time to let it work and water impact to remove the softened and loose soil. That is the time tested and most practical way to clean a car effectively on a regular basis. If you always hand wash your car...there is damage...no doubt...or you would be the first one I have every seen and I wash over 100,000 cars a year.

BigLeo

[BigLeo48]

Originally Posted by jlstyle

Well it's just a car. Even if I owned a ferrari, I would say the same thing.
Just don't go to the ghetto places where they recycle the water.
But, if you have convertible, don't get high pressure car wash too often as it might damage weather strip.

jlstyle,

Yeah...if the place looks like a dump...it is...there are some really bad ones out there and it's easy to pick them out. I have a buddy with a really nice 911 Turbo and he treats it like an ashtray and that's the way he likes it...mean and dirty!

The high pressure can damage loose weather stripping, but improperly mixed chemicals (presoaks) can break it down...just like wiper blades.

BigLeo

[jlstyle]

Originally Posted by BigLeo48

You don't need high pressure if you up the size of the water droplets to increase the impact...but that would be a huge waste of water (and not something SC has in great supply these days with a state wide drought). You can also clay bar more often. Obviously you can do what you want...it's your cars. What I was mostly referring to is that many people have opinions and methods on how to clean their cars. Unfortunately, the vast majority of them are based mostly on urban myth and not education, science and fact (like your original posting). Car washing is chemistry...it takes the right soap, dwell time to let it work and water impact to remove the softened and loose soil. That is the time tested and most practical way to clean a car effectively on a regular basis. If you always hand wash your car...there is damage...no doubt...or you would be the first one I have every seen and I wash over 100,000 cars a year.

BigLeo

Yup. I agree with you.
I think there's something about car wash with men.
It's more of a personal satisfaction then anything else, IMO.

[pbdm4k]

I haven't washed my car in a month!!

The ass of the car is dirty, and the rims are caked in brake dust. Only way for me to remove that brake dust is to break out the metal polish.

Yeoowza!!

Still, Leo... open up a location in Toronto, I'd be there every week! You're TOO FAR!!

[BigLeo48]

pbdm4k,

You can remove the break dust with an acid (most rim cleaners are acidic). I use a Simoniz Wheel Bright product. Spray it on...wait 20 seconds, blast it off. However, make sure your wheels are not damaged and dilute the stuff until you find the minimum mix that works for your rims. (My Simoniz stuff I dilute 4-1 and it's about $10/gallon).

The land in TO is just to expensive to justify building a was on it

So are the Leafs on the right track now?

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by BigLeo48

Four inches away from the tip it won't even hurt your skin.

I don't know about that. It stings quite a bit laying the back of a pickup truck. Don't ask, you just get bored in Iowa sometimes.

[BigLeo48]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

I don't know about that. It stings quite a bit laying the back of a pickup truck. Don't ask, you just get bored in Iowa sometimes.

Hawkeye,

No worries...I see a lot of strange stuff and one of my favourites was three muslems that showed up in the pouring rain, parked half way in a self-serve bay, rolled out the carpet and started their prayers. I wasn't quick enough to turn on the PA and say something like "Ala says put $5 in the machine"

BigLeo

[GeorgeT]

Originally Posted by BigLeo48

You don't need high pressure if you up the size of the water droplets to increase the impact...but that would be a huge waste of water (and not something SC has in great supply these days with a state wide drought).
BigLeo

Even though we are in a drought, there is plenty of water in the lakes and rivers so washing cars is not a problem.

[fins]

Originally Posted by GeorgeT

Even though we are in a drought, there is plenty of water in the lakes and rivers so washing cars is not a problem.

Sceneca, SC. I have a cardiologist friend that moved there 3 years ago from Laurel, MS. Great guy. My sister lived in Anderson but recently moved to NC. Great area you have there. Love the Walker Golf Course.

Sorry for the hijack....

[BigLeo48]

Originally Posted by GeorgeT

Even though we are in a drought, there is plenty of water in the lakes and rivers so washing cars is not a problem.

It is naive to think that carwashing is not a problem and so once again...misinformation is distributed.

Water...I believe your area's carwashes have mandated reclaim systems. These systems recycle the water so it can be reused. This is not to save money as reclaiming water, processing it into good water is expensive and not easy. The other big issue for the whole South Eastern seaboard is the salt contamination of the aquifers. Studies done are showing alarming problems with the water mismanagement and their effect on the aquifers. Basically what's happening is that water use is so high that the aquifers cannot replenish themselves quickly enough, so they create a vacuum and draw in salt water, which contaminates the aquifer. In the not to distant future, Florida could run out of water!!! I know you're not near the ocean, but most large cities are...so they start drawing more from the lakes and thus precipitate the whole downward spiral. Not to mention the effect on global warming and the ever lower lake levels.

Second water contamination by home based carwashing. Many studies have been made on the subject and all have the same conclusion. Washing your car creates a small amount of toxic effluent that goes directly into the storm sewers and into lakes, rivers and ponds. For example, the effect of very small amount of substances like surfactants will kill fish by stripping the mucous in their gills. Multiply than by millions of cars and you get the idea of the scope of the problem.

Washing at a carwash in your area will deal with it by recycling and any water that is not recycled goes through a grit and oil separator and then to the sanitary sewer for further processing (like pH adjusting) before being released into the environment. Carpture substances like oil and brake dust gets handled correctly by the waste company who removes it from the site.

Most of you don't realize it, but driveway washing is illegal as it contravenes the clean water act, EPA and sewer use bylaws. Its just not enforced in most communities...but it's coming. I live in the great lakes area (25% of the world fresh water supply). Toronto now has a "no home carwash bylaw" and we have more water than anybody else!

There is a big environmental reckoning coming and we'll all need to deal with how we misuse our precious water supply.

BigLeo

[scottyD]

275,000 miles on a 92 Volvo with many winters of coin-op washes to get rid of salt and grit, and people still comment that the paint and body look like new.

The high pressure water is fine.

That said, I wouldn't put the nozzle right against the paint for an extended period of time - common sense.


Save the environmental stuff for another thread, if you please

[GeorgeT]

Originally Posted by BigLeo48

It is naive to think that carwashing is not a problem and so once again...misinformation is distributed.

Water...I believe your area's carwashes have mandated reclaim systems. These systems recycle the water so it can be reused. This is not to save money as reclaiming water, processing it into good water is expensive and not easy. The other big issue for the whole South Eastern seaboard is the salt contamination of the aquifers. Studies done are showing alarming problems with the water mismanagement and their effect on the aquifers. Basically what's happening is that water use is so high that the aquifers cannot replenish themselves quickly enough, so they create a vacuum and draw in salt water, which contaminates the aquifer. In the not to distant future, Florida could run out of water!!! I know you're not near the ocean, but most large cities are...so they start drawing more from the lakes and thus precipitate the whole downward spiral. Not to mention the effect on global warming and the ever lower lake levels.

Second water contamination by home based carwashing. Many studies have been made on the subject and all have the same conclusion. Washing your car creates a small amount of toxic effluent that goes directly into the storm sewers and into lakes, rivers and ponds. For example, the effect of very small amount of substances like surfactants will kill fish by stripping the mucous in their gills. Multiply than by millions of cars and you get the idea of the scope of the problem.

Washing at a carwash in your area will deal with it by recycling and any water that is not recycled goes through a grit and oil separator and then to the sanitary sewer for further processing (like pH adjusting) before being released into the environment. Carpture substances like oil and brake dust gets handled correctly by the waste company who removes it from the site.

Most of you don't realize it, but driveway washing is illegal as it contravenes the clean water act, EPA and sewer use bylaws. Its just not enforced in most communities...but it's coming. I live in the great lakes area (25% of the world fresh water supply). Toronto now has a "no home carwash bylaw" and we have more water than anybody else!

There is a big environmental reckoning coming and we'll all need to deal with how we misuse our precious water supply.

BigLeo

I don't mean to get personal but this sounds as if you are either in selling or supplying carwash equipment or products or you are a left wing environmental radical. And actually, I think that 80% of the world's fresh water supply is an Antartica.

[BigLeo48]

Originally Posted by GeorgeT

I don't mean to get personal but this sounds as if you are either in selling or supplying carwash equipment or products or you are a left wing environmental radical. And actually, I think that 80% of the world's fresh water supply is an Antartica.

Actually it's about 20%...for the great lakes, but it seems to vary somewhat based on the sources and where you draw the line, but the point remains. Apparently there is also a fair bit of water on Mars...but like Antarctica, it's a little hard to get to.

Nope...don't sell equipment...just carwashes and at that it's not even a full time job, but a retirement project. I'm and electrical engineer working in the Satellite industry (Big Leo actually stands for Big Low Earth Orbit as I am neither big or named Leo). Neither am I an environmental radical....I don't even recycle (not actually available where I live), and I don't personally know any radical environmentals that would drive a single purpose go-fast, use lots of fuel Z4 ///M...but you never know. The water problem actually helps the carwash industry and was one of the reasons I got into it. Water is a big problem in the have-not states and pollution is in the have states. So I'm not saying this doesn't benefit me, but exposure to the industry seems to always revolve around the water problem...so it's been an education.

BigLeo