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      02-23-2017, 05:01 PM   #1
JJZ4MR
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Motor Mount choices, need some help

I'm going to have my local indie do the CDV, CPV, engine and tranny mounts all at once. I'm pretty set on RE for the tranny mount for $ 60. BUT I'm sorta confused at all the options for something as simple as a motor mount. Here's my summation starting with most expensive and highlights as stated in info, some of which gets very detailed like Rogue Engineering/Turner and others have almost no detail at all.

Turnermotorsport- Factory BMW 11812224413nKT "N" group - $800 solidrubber/30%+stf

Rouge Engineering - $380 Iso mounting plates/antirotational tabs/NOT bolt thru

Turnermotorsport-Factory BMW 11812224413N "N" group - $347 solid rubber/30%+stiff

Vibra Technics- $ 325 Seem like many of you like and use

Bavarian - Factory BMW $ 236

Pelican Parts - UUC Motorwerks Racing Urethane $ 215

Bimmer World - $200 solid design

AKG - MTS36MM - $150 US Military Spec 75 D polyurethane/bolt through

All the rest are around $ 130 Including - Hamburg Technic/Cortecc/Lamfoeder, then on Ebay you can find them for around $ 60 as set, with no name or info

Can anyone please help with some knowledge ( like is bolt through a good thing or a bad thing ? ) Rubber VS Urethane VS Polyurethane ?

I'm OK with spending to get better performance, but this is a huge range in price, for a " basic " component.

My needs are for occasional AutoX, perhaps HPDE in the next year, but basically I want the drivetrain nice and solid/smooth. No flexing, all the power to the ground, smoother more consistent shifting. I'm OK with a reasonable amount of NVH when cold/<1,000 RPM
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      02-23-2017, 05:17 PM   #2
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I do want to add that I NOW have just found and am reading the sticky, which I thought was JUST on Tranny Mounts, but NOW realize that it includes Motor Mounts as well. It was written in 2011 and has some updates in 2015. I just was looking for some fresh new info if anyone has any knowledge to impart, new product that has come out or has any updated advice on this subject.
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      02-23-2017, 08:23 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJZ4MR View Post
( like is bolt through a good thing or a bad thing ? )
Bolt through is stiff as hell. the mounts that have them (AKG - MTS36MM) are also shore 75D stiffness. That is also hard as rock (like really hard plastic)

Quote:
Rubber VS Urethane VS Polyurethane ?
Urethane is the same as polyurethane (or poly for short)


Here in europe we also have suppliers that make polyurethane motor/transmission mounts of different design than the bmw style design, like this

[motormount; there are multiple suppliers here that use this same design]


same style on transmission mount:


For a transmission mount you can also use a generic $2 vibration dampener in the size of the bmw transmission mount. They are generally much stiffer than the bmw mounts (those are really soft; there isnt much weight on them, maybe 5kg per mount)


I'm on vibra technics road mounts, and I wouldnt go any stiffer for a car that is mostly driven on public roads.
For a track car thats obviously now issue.

This is an interesting thread for you:
http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1234185
Particular this bit:

Quote:
NHV? You betcha!
When I put the VT mounts in, there was the slightest vibration at idle. Nothing noticeable at higher revs.
With the BW there's pretty healthy massage action at idle.
More than just a massage. It's like there's a boom in the trunk jammin' Ess-Fiddy-Fo's greatest hits.
Above 1k the vibe goes away, but up around 3k I can hear more of the whirly bits in the engine.
So there is definately a wide range of stiffness between the various mounts.
I'm pretty sure that a shore 75d bolt through mount is even way way more stiffer than the mounts he has now
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Last edited by GuidoK; 02-23-2017 at 08:33 PM..
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      02-24-2017, 03:34 AM   #4
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Thanks yeah I had read that thread. Will check out that other design, had not seen that style anywhere in my research.
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      02-24-2017, 09:00 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJZ4MR View Post
I'm going to have my local indie do the CDV, CPV, engine and tranny mounts all at once. I'm pretty set on RE for the tranny mount for $ 60. BUT I'm sorta confused at all the options for something as simple as a motor mount. Here's my summation starting with most expensive and highlights as stated in info, some of which gets very detailed like Rogue Engineering/Turner and others have almost no detail at all.

Turnermotorsport- Factory BMW 11812224413nKT "N" group - $800 solidrubber/30%+stf

Rouge Engineering - $380 Iso mounting plates/antirotational tabs/NOT bolt thru

Turnermotorsport-Factory BMW 11812224413N "N" group - $347 solid rubber/30%+stiff

Vibra Technics- $ 325 Seem like many of you like and use

Bavarian - Factory BMW $ 236

Pelican Parts - UUC Motorwerks Racing Urethane $ 215

Bimmer World - $200 solid design

AKG - MTS36MM - $150 US Military Spec 75 D polyurethane/bolt through

All the rest are around $ 130 Including - Hamburg Technic/Cortecc/Lamfoeder, then on Ebay you can find them for around $ 60 as set, with no name or info

Can anyone please help with some knowledge ( like is bolt through a good thing or a bad thing ? ) Rubber VS Urethane VS Polyurethane ?

I'm OK with spending to get better performance, but this is a huge range in price, for a " basic " component.

My needs are for occasional AutoX, perhaps HPDE in the next year, but basically I want the drivetrain nice and solid/smooth. No flexing, all the power to the ground, smoother more consistent shifting. I'm OK with a reasonable amount of NVH when cold/<1,000 RPM
Keep in mind that for autocross the large majority of organizations use SCCA classing for AutoX. If you make any change to your Z4M that's not allowed in Street class, you jump past Street Touring to Street Prepared class. Not particularly fair that the M isn't allowed in Street Touring, but it is what it is. A material change in your suspension or drive train bushings isn't allowed in Street class. BMWCCA uses a points system depending on the extent of mods, but the only CCA group I know of doing autocross is Suncoast chapter and they've been struggling to put on events and only managed two last year done in conjunction with Suncoast PCA. Gulf Coast Autocrossers in Ft. Meyers is probably the group closest to you and they use SCCA classing. Side Note - The Ft. Meyers site is one of the best on the East Coast of the US so you're fortunate in that respect.
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      03-04-2017, 09:20 PM   #6
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Fast Auto X has been doing 2 monthly events ( OPEN & CLASSIC ) for 10 years now. They use an airport runway in Brooksville. They also run at the Tampa Greyhound track monthly. I did my first autoX and it was amazing. First class operation ! As far as what class I'm put in, well, since I spent 4 minutes actual drive time on my 4 runs, to me, it doesn't really matter. 99 percent of the time, it's a weekend joyride/spirited driving. I'm going to do another AutoX next month. At some point, I'd love to go to Sebring. I'm not chasing points or really competing except with myself, so the classification part is pretty meaningless...today. Good info to know though. I will change this mod in my upcoming event. I do remember reading that changes do not really matter until the following year. So I'm " grandfathered " in, until 2018, as I understand it. Really do appreciate the shared knowledge. Let me know if you are ever coming down South my way, maybe we can meet up and shoot the shit.
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      03-10-2017, 07:54 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJZ4MR View Post
Fast Auto X has been doing 2 monthly events ( OPEN & CLASSIC ) for 10 years now. They use an airport runway in Brooksville. They also run at the Tampa Greyhound track monthly. I did my first autoX and it was amazing. First class operation ! As far as what class I'm put in, well, since I spent 4 minutes actual drive time on my 4 runs, to me, it doesn't really matter. 99 percent of the time, it's a weekend joyride/spirited driving. I'm going to do another AutoX next month. At some point, I'd love to go to Sebring. I'm not chasing points or really competing except with myself, so the classification part is pretty meaningless...today. Good info to know though. I will change this mod in my upcoming event. I do remember reading that changes do not really matter until the following year. So I'm " grandfathered " in, until 2018, as I understand it. Really do appreciate the shared knowledge. Let me know if you are ever coming down South my way, maybe we can meet up and shoot the shit.
Glad you had a great time! While the seat time is short, it's very adrenaline packed. I've run with FAST numerous times and Loren runs a first class organization. On the changes info, since FAST uses the SCCA classes as their baseline, their rule is that if SCCA makes a change in the rules that would move your car, then you don't have to move until the next competition season. If YOU make a change to your car there's no grandfathering, once you install it on the car, you're in the new class next event. For FAST, the bushing changes will move you from S1 to M1.
Initially, it won't be an issue as there's a quite a bit of seat time required before you get quick in autocross, so no one's likely to protest. Down the road if you get more serious, or run with SCCA then the mods will get important.
FAST is doing a Classic event on 3/26 that I'm looking at signing up for. You don't have enough events yet to sign up on your own, but you can sign up if you have an experienced "buddy". If I go to this event and you want to go I can be the designated "buddy". PM with your email if you're interested.
Also, check the Suncoast Florida PCA website for autocross events. They run at some of the same sites, plus a couple others that are close to you. Their events are also well run and you typically get 8-10 runs. If you're a BMWCCA member they give PCA member rates to you and they have a BMW class. They'll be at Showtime Speedway on April 23.
SCCA will be at Sebring Jun 10th and 11th so pencil that in on your calendar.
The ultimate autocross site in the Southeast is at Ft. Myers which is relatively close to you. Gulf Coast Autocrossers runs those events and it is a must go to site once you get a few more events under your belt. I wouldn't recommend going there until you've got enough events that you're comfortable learning a course. The Ft. Myers site is the full length of the runway section at Brooksville (from where they have the stripped down jets to where you turned around on the FAST course) and about 3x as wide.
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      03-10-2017, 09:10 PM   #8
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Thanks for the info and the offer of being my buddy/sponsor. They told me about this option to get in at FAST. I nearly signed up for the OPEN being run tomorrow, glad I didn't as the mods are being done Thursday and wanted to have them done before doing another event. Showtime is pretty cool. Did one night of 1/8 miles runs in the 240Z after I broke the motor in. I'll look into FT Meyers, sound great. You are right, lot's of adrenalin for 4 minutes of seat time...I want more ! I was having some fun on the streets, but after doing that type of driving, it has settled me down some.
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      03-11-2017, 12:51 AM   #9
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DC, have you ever been to the Tampa Greyhound location that FAST uses ? Wondered how it compares to Brooksville ? Surface ? Length ? Width ? Time of the course ?
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      03-11-2017, 06:37 AM   #10
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Quote:
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DC, have you ever been to the Tampa Greyhound location that FAST uses ? Wondered how it compares to Brooksville ? Surface ? Length ? Width ? Time of the course ?
TGT course will be typically a 35-40 second course. It will be a much different style course since it's not restricted by runway width like Brooksville, but they have to set the course up to maintain minimum safe distance from curbs, light poles, etc so the usable amount of parking lot is limited. Loren's pretty creative so he usually gets an interesting course set up. It's asphalt and it will have considerably less grip than the concrete at Brooksville.
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      03-11-2017, 09:23 AM   #11
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imho, you are overthinking the motor mounts... Unless this is a dedicated track car, the OEM mounts will do just fine. I see no way that you will feel any performance gains by switching these mounts for something stiffer. If anything, you will have increased NVH and increased stress on the mounting points on the front of the car.

I like this graphic for bushing choices...
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