trade z4m for 1m coupe??

[Rated M Roadster]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Doesn't the 1M have overboost though?

Yes, they have overboost.

[KevinM]

I've driven the 1M extensively (at least 500 miles, possibly more) and I am very seriously considering buying a pristine used one (< 3K miles) as an addition to my garage. This car is just fantastic. If you have not driven one, please do so before you comment. Of course, this is not easy to do as < 900 were imported to the US, making it much more rare than our beloved Z4M coupe.

I love my M coupe and will not relinquish it, but I also love torque, which my E39 M5 has in spades. The 1 M sort of combines my love for both the E39 M5 and Z4M. All are manual transmission only, which I find snobbishly attractive (yes, I am a member of the soon to be defunct "save the manuals" club).

And, by the way, the 1 M is very much an M car. The power provided by the boosted N54 (also shared buy, gasp, several top-of-line non-M cars in BMW's line-up) is a perfect match for the E9X M3 platform's suspension. I certainly find it much more entertaining than the E9X M3 (which is of course is still a great car that I enjoyed driving as well).

P.S. I've driven countless versions of BMW's manual transmission. The best one, by far, is the 1M's.

[Walkurie]

If the issues are future resale, rarity and relative performance, one might benefit from looking at history. In the 60's, British Leyland built both the Austin Healey 3000 and the MGC on the same line, at the same time. The cars were literally intermingled as they were being built. The AH3000 was the real thing, the MGC was something cobbled together. Both were produced in low quantities. Each had a 6 cylinder performance engine and catered to the same performance markets.

Today, the AH 3000 sells at maybe 3X the value of the MGC.

The AH3000 is arguably comparable to the M Roadster / Coupe in that despite the fact that the m R/C is a 'parts bin' M car, the parts are coming from other true M cars, like the M3 E46, where they were very successful. The 1M, despite the fact it is a bit more rare, will prove to be more bland in comparison as the years roll on.

[GammaZeta]

I LOVE the 1m. My wife has a 128 and I think it is a great car.

Both the Z4M and the 1M are amazing cars for the value. They really bring you right up to having the best in class speed, performance and value.

Afterall, does anyone really need much more performance in a "fun" car than in the Z4M or the 1M? Do you really need that extra 250 hp to knock .5 seconds off your 0 - 60 time?

I think the real difference between the cars is their base model.

The 1M is based off of a 1 series. Although sporty, not really based off of a sports car. BMW M's aren't purpose built for sports like the 911.

The Z4M has a better arguement being based off of a roadster design. Although the Z4 wasn't purpose built like the 911, it would be closer than the 1.

If I didn't love my Z4M already, I'd REALLY consider getting an 1M even with the premium.

Something about the small size of it reminds me of my old E36 that I loved. I like the 1M more than the M3.

[Walkurie]

Disagree on the comparison of the purpose built 911 to the Z4. Most Z4's are good performance vehicles, and 911's come at all levels of performance. From personal experience, an M Roadster can dust some 911's. A better comparison is the Boxster.

[GammaZeta]

Originally Posted by tbalutis

Disagree on the comparison of the purpose built 911 to the Z4. Most Z4's are good performance vehicles, and 911's come at all levels of performance. From personal experience, an M Roadster can dust some 911's. A better comparison is the Boxster.

Performance wise, yes.

But remember, BMW hasn't built an M car from the ground up, specifically to be a sports car, since the original M1.

Even a plain old 911 Carrera is a sports car, built from the ground up to perform. Everything was designed and built for performance in mind.

BMW has to massage a coupe or a 4 door into an M car, and as magnificent as they are, there are some things they can't overcome.

I'm the biggest Z4 fan there is. But the original design of the Z4 wasn't to compete with 911's or for performance. It wasn't until M got their hands on it.

[The HACK]

I think we're letting our MZ4 Coupe colored lenses tint our judgement...

IMO, if you're strictly comparing RAW performance in stock form, the MZ4 Coupe is a superior platform but the 1M has the better all around engine. From an all around practical standpoint, it's not even close. The 1M beats the MZ4 Coupe hands down. 2 more semi-usable seats and a real trunk means the 1M has far wider versatility, while from a chassis standpoint (on paper) is on par with the MZ4.

It is when you come to subjective aspects of the car, that's where there may be some wiggle room. Aesthetically, the MZ4 Coupe is far more pleasing than the 1M but that's a personal opinion. In terms of "collectibility," the MZ4 remains the last TRUE M car that fits the credo Motorsports has stood behind for 3 decades...In order for any BMW to qualify as an ///M car, it has to have 1) RWD, 2) manual transmission, and 3) High revving, naturally aspirated engine. Same reason why the X5 LeMans wasn't an ///M car, despite it putting forth far better specs than the current X5M, same reason why the 850CSi wasn't branded an ///M car, despite having an S designated engine. From a "purist" perspective, the MZ4 is a better "M" car than the 1M, but again, that is purely subjective.

Same can be argued that the 1M shares all the same underpinning from the E9X M3 except the engine, and it is actually more of a lively and dynamic chassis than the E9X M3...And the fact that X5M and X6M already received the M designation with turbocharged engines means that old credo that Motorsports used to live by has little to no meaning in today's BMW Marketing. So in that sense, I can argue until I'm blue in the face about how the MZ4 Coupe is technically more "M" than the 1M and it would be completely meaningless. The fact that the turbocharged engine is eminently more livable than the S54, with its power being delivered mostly up high and lack of a high torque value, means in every way, the 1M will be far more suitable for just about everything you do and will hold its own on the track against the mighty MZ4 Coupe.

If I didn't have this irrational love for the MZ4 Coupe, I'd make that swap within a heartbeat. The logical side of me tells me the 1M is a superior car. The irrational side of me tells me to hang on to the MZ4 Coupe because, it is still one of the best looking BMWs since Bangle has taken charge of BMW design and it is an absolute FREAK on track. That high-revving S54 remains the greatest inline-6 in automotive history...There's something to be said about owning something so unique that it is the LAST of its kind.

In summary? If it was me, I'd keep the MZ4 Coupe. If I was advising someone else? I'd tell them to trade it in for the 1M.

[GammaZeta]

Originally Posted by The HACK

I think we're letting our MZ4 Coupe colored lenses tint our judgement...

IMO, if you're strictly comparing RAW performance in stock form, the MZ4 Coupe is a superior platform but the 1M has the better all around engine. From an all around practical standpoint, it's not even close. The 1M beats the MZ4 Coupe hands down. 2 more semi-usable seats and a real trunk means the 1M has far wider versatility, while from a chassis standpoint (on paper) is on par with the MZ4.

It is when you come to subjective aspects of the car, that's where there may be some wiggle room. Aesthetically, the MZ4 Coupe is far more pleasing than the 1M but that's a personal opinion. In terms of "collectibility," the MZ4 remains the last TRUE M car that fits the credo Motorsports has stand behind for 3 decades...In order for any BMW to qualify as an ///M car, it has to have 1) RWD, 2) manual transmission, and 3) High revving, naturally aspirated engine. Same reason why the X5 LeMans wasn't an ///M car, despite it putting forth far better specs than the current X5M, same reason why the 850CSi wasn't branded an ///M car, despite having an S designated engine. From a "purist" perspective, the MZ4 is a better "M" car than the 1M, but again, that is purely subjective.

Same can be argued that the 1M shares all the same underpinning from the E9X M3 except the engine, and it is actually more of a lively and dynamic chassis than the E9X M3...And the fact that X5M and X6M already received the M designation with turbocharged engines means that old credo that Motorsports used to live by has little to no meaning in today's BMW Marketing. So in that sense, I can argue until I'm blue in the face about how the MZ4 Coupe is technically more "M" than the 1M and it would be completely meaningless. The fact that the turbocharged engine is eminently more livable than the S54, with its power being delivered mostly up high and lack of a high torque value, means in every way, the 1M will be far more suitable for just about everything you do and will hold its own on the track against the mighty MZ4 Coupe.

If I didn't have this irrational love for the MZ4 Coupe, I'd make that swap within a heartbeat. The logical side of me tells me the 1M is a superior car. The irrational side of me tells me to hang on to the MZ4 Coupe because, it is still one of the best looking BMWs since Bangle has taken charge of BMW design and it is an absolute FREAK on track. That high-revving S54 remains the greatest inline-6 in automotive history...There's something to be said about owning something so unique that it is the LAST of its kind.

In summary? If it was me, I'd keep the MZ4 Coupe. If I was advising someone else? I'd tell them to trade it in for the 1M.

Nailed it...

[itdnwiwbp]

Originally Posted by The HACK

I think we're letting our MZ4 Coupe colored lenses tint our judgement...

IMO, if you're strictly comparing RAW performance in stock form, the MZ4 Coupe is a superior platform but the 1M has the better all around engine. From an all around practical standpoint, it's not even close. The 1M beats the MZ4 Coupe hands down. 2 more semi-usable seats and a real trunk means the 1M has far wider versatility, while from a chassis standpoint (on paper) is on par with the MZ4.

It is when you come to subjective aspects of the car, that's where there may be some wiggle room. Aesthetically, the MZ4 Coupe is far more pleasing than the 1M but that's a personal opinion. In terms of "collectibility," the MZ4 remains the last TRUE M car that fits the credo Motorsports has stand behind for 3 decades...In order for any BMW to qualify as an ///M car, it has to have 1) RWD, 2) manual transmission, and 3) High revving, naturally aspirated engine. Same reason why the X5 LeMans wasn't an ///M car, despite it putting forth far better specs than the current X5M, same reason why the 850CSi wasn't branded an ///M car, despite having an S designated engine. From a "purist" perspective, the MZ4 is a better "M" car than the 1M, but again, that is purely subjective.

Same can be argued that the 1M shares all the same underpinning from the E9X M3 except the engine, and it is actually more of a lively and dynamic chassis than the E9X M3...And the fact that X5M and X6M already received the M designation with turbocharged engines means that old credo that Motorsports used to live by has little to no meaning in today's BMW Marketing. So in that sense, I can argue until I'm blue in the face about how the MZ4 Coupe is technically more "M" than the 1M and it would be completely meaningless. The fact that the turbocharged engine is eminently more livable than the S54, with its power being delivered mostly up high and lack of a high torque value, means in every way, the 1M will be far more suitable for just about everything you do and will hold its own on the track against the mighty MZ4 Coupe.

If I didn't have this irrational love for the MZ4 Coupe, I'd make that swap within a heartbeat. The logical side of me tells me the 1M is a superior car. The irrational side of me tells me to hang on to the MZ4 Coupe because, it is still one of the best looking BMWs since Bangle has taken charge of BMW design and it is an absolute FREAK on track. That high-revving S54 remains the greatest inline-6 in automotive history...There's something to be said about owning something so unique that it is the LAST of its kind.

In summary? If it was me, I'd keep the MZ4 Coupe. If I was advising someone else? I'd tell them to trade it in for the 1M.

x2. Very well put.

[b0bab0i]

Originally Posted by SCHMOUPE

I would in a heartbeat if it was a trade + less than 7k on top.

1M is a true beast. Might not be as unique as our moupes but it's a true M car with all the stats and characteristics to back it up.

Is the 1M a true M car?

Seems like they took a bunch of things from E9X M3 parts bin and threw it onto a 135i. Uses the same motor as a 135i/335is.

[GammaZeta]

Originally Posted by b0bab0i

Is the 1M a true M car?

Seems like they took a bunch of things from E9X M3 parts bin and threw it onto a 135i. Uses the same motor as a 135i/335is.

At this point, I would apply the same standard used by United States Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart to describe his threshold test for obscenity in Jacobellis v. Ohio when defining an "M" car:

"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["hard-core pornography"]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it"

—Justice Potter Stewart

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by b0bab0i

Is the 1M a true M car?

Seems like they took a bunch of things from E9X M3 parts bin and threw it onto a 135i. Uses the same motor as a 135i/335is.

Is the X5M a true M car? The X6M? Neither one of which fits within Motorsports M credo...RWD, must have manual, and NA high revving engine.

Let's face it. There's a new breed of M cars. Cars that comes with a highly tuned turbo-charged engine, doesn't necessarily need to come with 3 pedals (DCT only M5 and M6 anyone?), and whatever drive configuration the chassis is based from (rumored FWD 1 series anyone?).

The truth is, a "true" M car is what Motorsports decides to put that badge on. The 1M is no less a true M car than an X5M, X6M, M3, M5, M6, or any of the vaunted M cars that came before it (or after). If you want to go by the ORIGINAL Motorsports credo, there are only two true M cars. The M1 and the E30 M3. Both were only produced to satisfy FIA Homologation requirements. That was the original, and the TRUE intent of Motorsports.

As BMW's buying public has evolved, so must BMW's car and their definition of the halo'ed "M" status.

[Swashplate]

To whom it may concern:

I find this word “Practical” to be offensive. Please refrain from using it on this board.

Regards,

Sir. DCS

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by Rated M Roadster

Yes, they have overboost.

Friend has the 1M, and with afterburners engaged there's no way to keep up in a stock Z4M. It just walks the Z4M. It's really quite a car. And it as pointed out, it has RWD, MT, and a high-performance engine. Not high revving, but with newer turbo technology and the overboost, one can argue that the current BMW turbo motors are state of the art. (My thinking on that has really changed over the past 3 years. High revving was a better performance alternative to lag ridden boosted engines at one time, it's not that clear-cut anymore.) FI at altitude is kind of a no brainer IMO. NA just looses too much at higher altitudes.

In many ways it's a parts-bin special like the Z4M--which has an E36 M3 front suspension, E46 rear, and E46 M3 engine. The E9x M3 has a great suspension, and the shorter wheelbase and lighter weight of the 135 chassis actually bring out its potential more than the E9x M3 can--it's livelier and more fun. And as much as I hate to admit it, torque is addicting. Boost lag? Meh. Nothing like, say, an STI or something of that ilk.

If I didn't already have the Z4M (plus mods) and hadn't switched cars too often in the past several years, I'd be all over the 1M. It's not the looker that the Z4M is, but it's really quirky and that means for some weird reason I like it because of that. In fact, outside of the GT3 (which isn't even a consideration due to $$$) it's the only car my wife would okay a trade for the Z4M on. (Like I said, a bit too many cars.) Simply because it means she'd be able to take the keys and drive it! It's the only thing outside the Z4M that she likes on the road today.

[yakswak]

Everything that I'd want to say has been said. I'd do the trade if given the opportunity but I'm getting the feeling that the question is whether it's worth the additional $16k outlay. I think only the OP can answer that question.

I wouldn't feel comfortable with paying OVER MSRP for a used car at this point in time and thus would keep the Z4M. If we're talking about an even swap (assuming both cars were priced similarly, which I understand they are not), then I'd do it!

[b0bab0i]

Originally Posted by The HACK

Is the X5M a true M car? The X6M? Neither one of which fits within Motorsports M credo...RWD, must have manual, and NA high revving engine.

Let's face it. There's a new breed of M cars. Cars that comes with a highly tuned turbo-charged engine, doesn't necessarily need to come with 3 pedals (DCT only M5 and M6 anyone?), and whatever drive configuration the chassis is based from (rumored FWD 1 series anyone?).

The truth is, a "true" M car is what Motorsports decides to put that badge on. The 1M is no less a true M car than an X5M, X6M, M3, M5, M6, or any of the vaunted M cars that came before it (or after). If you want to go by the ORIGINAL Motorsports credo, there are only two true M cars. The M1 and the E30 M3. Both were only produced to satisfy FIA Homologation requirements. That was the original, and the TRUE intent of Motorsports.

As BMW's buying public has evolved, so must BMW's car and their definition of the halo'ed "M" status.

By that regard, you consider M135i & M550d as a true M cars? Cars have M badging, engines tuned by M Division. These are M cars also?

[The HACK]

BMW makes a distinction between cars like the 1M and M5 vs. these "M Performance Package" cars. Does it make the M550D any less of an M? I don't know, you tell me. It's got M suspension underpinnings, it's got an engine that's been tuned by Motorsports to put out more torque than a freight train, and while it can't be had with a manual, it's certainly far more true to the M credo from the last 30 years than the X5M and X6M.

Again, look at it from BMW's marketing perspective. They've now created a secondary halo class of cars under the "M Performance" brand because of the brand equity M cars has built up over the last 40 years. It's not us who gets to decide what a "real" M car is, it's BMW Motorsports GmBH.

I have far less problem with BMW putting M badges on these cars, than I do with BMW putting M badges on X5M and X6M to be honest.

[b0bab0i]

Originally Posted by The HACK

BMW makes a distinction between cars like the 1M and M5 vs. these "M Performance Package" cars. Does it make the M550D any less of an M? I don't know, you tell me. It's got M suspension underpinnings, it's got an engine that's been tuned by Motorsports to put out more torque than a freight train, and while it can't be had with a manual, it's certainly far more true to the M credo from the last 30 years than the X5M and X6M.

Again, look at it from BMW's marketing perspective. They've now created a secondary halo class of cars under the "M Performance" brand because of the brand equity M cars has built up over the last 40 years. It's not us who gets to decide what a "real" M car is, it's BMW Motorsports GmBH.

I have far less problem with BMW putting M badges on these cars, than I do with BMW putting M badges on X5M and X6M to be honest.

I agree with you.

///M basically stands for Marketing now instead of Motorsports IMO.

[KevinM]

Originally Posted by b0bab0i

I agree with you.

///M basically stands for Marketing now instead of Motorsports IMO.

I don't completely disagree, but...please drive multiple M cars before you dismiss them. M must make money to survive. The survival of M benefits enthusiasts even if not every M car is to our liking on paper. I say "on paper" because in my experience, most automobile enthusiasts (once they are driving the car) appreciate every M version of standard BMWs.

As I noted above, anyone who claims the 1M is not a "true" M car has not driven the damn thing. And as much as the X5/X6 M models do not appeal to me, I respect the execution of the concept and realize these models contribute to the survival of the M division.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by b0bab0i

By that regard, you consider M135i & M550d as a true M cars? Cars have M badging, engines tuned by M Division. These are M cars also?

See them like the m535 from the 80's, which was produced alongside the m5, but nothing like the m5.

Originally Posted by b0bab0i

///M basically stands for Marketing now instead of Motorsports IMO.

To some extent has been since the 80's (so like forever), see the m535
But judge a car by the parts that it's made off and the performance it makes; not by the badge on the bootlid

I think the m1 is truely a unique car because no one makes such a small familycar in such a hardcore package. But it won't be remenbered by it's engine though; like the z4m or e46 m3 will be. The s54 is the most epic engine ever produced by bmw with the 6 fold throttle valves etc. It resembles race technology, also by performance (n/a +100hp/liter).
Maybe the m5v10 has the same legendary engine.

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by baege

My thoughts:

The 1M has visual presence, but can't compare to the presence of an Mcoupe.
Looks: M coupe
I haven't driven the 1M but I've driven several 135i's. Turbo lag is evident.
Engine: M coupe
I can't comment on the handling/feel of a 1M v. a Z4MC as I haven't driven a 1M but I can compare a 135i to a Z4MC and there is no comparison
Economics: the 1M will have greater initial depreciation until the point where it evens out. The Mcoupe has already evened out. Over the next 5 years the Mcoupe will cost you less. Your SC idea changes this dynamic of course, but really is the Z4MC not quick enough for you? I find that power once at a certain level is sufficient for fun spirited driving, and beyond that point the gains in overall driving enjoyment are minimal.

My vote: Z4MC, no question.

Don't agree on initial depreciation. Used 1M's are still selling at msrp.

[mexicobmw]

Well I drove both the 1m and the x5m during the weekend. I have to say, they both impressed me very much! they drive and handle very differently, but the x5m seemed to pull even harder than the 1m!! and let me tell you that the 1M pulled way way harder than our z4m... I know altitude plays a big factor...... On the corners the 1m felt very poised it wants to break the rear tires if pushed to hard.. very similar to the z4m before I switched to the Michellin PSS... Now I am torn because i truly love the z4m and the looks of it! it gets stares everywhere I go its kind of an exotic where as the 1m and the x5m tend to blend a little more. The real debate is where I want any of those cars 15k more than my z4m. (I know that if I stay with the z4m i will probably invest that amount in modding it). Since I love cars but tend to get tired of them pretty quickly I dont want to rush into a decision I will later regret. Well actualy not tired but love the hunt for one and the modding process, etc... I am always looking at cars to trade even after I have just bought one..... Bottom line is I would get the x5m no qustion if it was my dd but since my z4m is purley a weekend car it kind of defeats the purpose of a weekend car (I am single no kids/wife). therefore I think I will wait for the 1m prices to drop a bit and make the move.