Help me get faster!

[zachbooze]

Hey guys,

I've definitely caught the track/hpde bug. Just concluded my 4th and 5th track days (Thunderhill in Willows) and am looking for advice from the wealth of experience the forum has to provide. I plan on having an instructor with me next event. I have one clip from Thunderhill East with cyclone & bypass layout and got similar times for both

Please watch both or either one and give me any available advice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y28dLRABtv0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqbMsX6Twuk

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Update Aug. 26/27 Track Event at Sonoma Raceway. Lots of fun! Didn't really see any M coupe guys though unfortunately. I was able to get a shot of my driving from the cockpit with the picture in picture option but it was a pain in the ass. On this lap i went too wide on turn 11. There are a few other areas to improve as well. As always any input is welcomed

[dc_wright]

Overall looked pretty good! Your red line speed in 2nd gear should be in the 62-64 mph range (?) so no advantage to downshift on turns where you're not dropping below that range, but on the couple of turns where your apex speed dropped down into the 40's consider a downshift to 2nd instead of relying just on low rpm torque to pull out of it. Requires some heel and toe practice to get the rev matching right, but there's a nice payoff when you nail it.

[zachbooze]

Originally Posted by dc_wright

Overall looked pretty good! Your red line speed in 2nd gear should be in the 62-64 mph range (?) so no advantage to downshift on turns where you're not dropping below that range, but on the couple of turns where your apex speed dropped down into the 40's consider a downshift to 2nd instead of relying just on low rpm torque to pull out of it. Requires some heel and toe practice to get the rev matching right, but there's a nice payoff when you nail it.

Thanks for the input! I was actually thinking bout downshifting into second going into turn 11 on Thunderhill east but didn't try it. I'll do that and see how it goes. Especially since a big chunk of the power and torque is in the upper end of the rev range.

[dschultz]

Nice lines. Much better than I was after just a few track days. I'm no expert, but here's my take...

T1 - high speed, don't cheat the entry. Smooth progressive turn in is key for me to get speed here. Anything less will give you mid turn understeer which is not fun at 90+

T2 - entry lines vary, but a straight line from exit of 1 to inside of 2 is shortest and let's you brake deeper into t2. this turn is a 180 skidpad. 100% fun! It's all about grip and balancing the car with the throttle. Which you seem to be doing well. You may be exiting a but early. I try to hit the exit berm at 3/4 mark. Should be full throttle well before you are at the berm.

T3 - another turn with lots of opinions. I prefer your first line where you entered tight to inside and stayed there.

T4 - you're turning in early. You want a really late apex on 4. Sets up better for bypass or cyclone. Should be full throttle at (late) apex of 4 and straight shot up the hill.

Cyclone - looks great. Your line around 5a on this lap looks textbook to me.
Bypass - good track position on entry. a little less turn in and you'll avoid the nasty bump that unsettles the car just as you're coming over the top.

Btw, You have a ton of grip in 5a. It looked like you were accelerating there. Good. I tend to gain on most drivers a lot here. Most people dont push hard enough. 3rd gear, power plants the rear. Yee haw!

T6 - slight later apex, aim for 3/4 point on exit berm. You'll be on the power sooner. stay right a bit longer at the exit. My mark is a patch of black pavement on the right edge of the track (a dark blur at 56:49 in your bypass video) that's my turn in for 7.

T7 - good. Make sure to use entire track to minimize the arc. You'll scrub less speed. People tend to be lazy here and just drive down the middle of the track. This is a long, almost straight. Make it as straight as possible.

T8 - ah yes. The fastest turn and by far the scariest for most, including me. I'm still trying to figure it out. Legend says you can take it flat out. I brake slightly and still go through at 100. I know there's more, but... I've also seen several nasty rollovers here. Respect it. All I'll say is leave a good margin for error, build speed slowly, and stay off the rumble strips at the exit. You do not want to drop a wheel off here.

T9 - too late. Turn in just where the track turns off to the right, where the tall cones are. the apex cone is set at the "safe" point, but not the fast point. I would apex 8-10 feet from the start of the berm. (First blue segment, second white segment) I usually put my left tire right on top of the berm. The hill is like a banked turn. You have masses of grip. A slight unwind at apex will leave you parallel to exit berm. When you get this right it's a kick. Leaves me smiling all the way down the hill on the other side. Speaking of other side, let the car go more to the left on the downhill and slowly bring it back right. If you hit 9 correctly that will be natural.

T10 - nice. You can brake later. the track drops down to the turn so its a bit blind and most tend to coast into this turn.

T11 - nice. opinion varies on 2nd or 3rd here. 2nd costs you shifting time. 3rd costs you power, maybe. I had always been doing 2nd but recently tried 3rd at Finnegans suggestion. Now I like 3rd. If you hit a proper late apex, really late you can carry enought speed that 3rd feels good. I like to drive over this berm too. It's pretty big and can actually help kick the back end around.

T14-15 - in the cyclone lap you did this perfectly, at least you drove the line that I drive In the bypass lap your turn in was late. Opinions vary as to line, but clearly the goal is to get on the gas as early as possible. Longest straight and all that. My breakdown: apex 14 like you did in cyclone lap. Use the berm as you did, it's flat. Unwind a little bit, left tires onto the rumble strips, then wind in towards apex of 15. Done correctly you will be full throttle at or before the apex of 15. Do not hit the inside berm on 15. It will upset the car. If you screw up and find yourself going off at the exit off 15, drive off. Do not try to yank the car back on track here. You will likely hook the car back across the track and hit the pit wall. It happens regularly.

Great job!

[zachbooze]

Dschultz,

What a comprehensive analysis! Much appreciated. I'm literally going to print out your turn by turn tips lol. I see you're in the Bay Area, plan on going to any events this month? I'll be at the NASA event on the 13th. Also were you at Thunderhill this past weekend? I saw an Interlagos Z4M there on saturday.

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by zachbooze

Dschultz,

What a comprehensive analysis! Much appreciated. I'm literally going to print out your turn by turn tips lol. I see you're in the Bay Area, plan on going to any events this month? I'll be at the NASA event on the 13th. Also were you at Thunderhill this past weekend? I saw an Interlagos Z4M there on saturday.

Dietrich was there. He has the Interlagos coupe. I had the SBM coupe (Ron).

Very nice driving for a new driver! Keep up the good work!

He's right about 9--while it seems like you'd be apexing too early there's a lot of track to track out too and a lot of compression going up the hill to increase traction. That lets you carry more speed through the corner and over-the-top of nine. I had your line, but took his suggestion and tried to change that a bit in later sessions. It's possible but requires you to fight a bit with your head since it's a blind corner over the top of the hill, and you're carrying more speed than you'd be able to pull off if it were flat.

Several of us did extensive testing on turn 11, second versus third gear. Third is faster. It doesn't feel that way, but the data say it is. Our car has enough torque that if you hit the corner right third is the better gear. You lose time and speed when you downshift and upshift. It also unsettles the car a little bit when you upshift. The Z is also notoriously difficult to get into second gear on the track. If you were in a Miata it would be a different story!

My other suggestion would be to get more time with an instructor. It's hard to see what you're doing with your hands and feet, and that something an instructor can see and feel with you in the car. Another suggestion, ride along with an advanced driver. Sometimes you have to see that something can actually be done in order to believe you can do it, and there's a lot to learn from safe/faster drivers. Even just riding along with another driver at your own level lets you see and feel and understand the track from a very different perspective. When you don't have to process all of the inputs you can take stock of things like on and off camber, turn points, elevation changes, where rubber is or is not on the track, etc. Lastly if you ever have the opportunity to walk or bicycle the track it'll give you an entirely different perspective as well.

Enjoy!

[zachbooze]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

Dietrich was there. He has the Interlagos coupe. I had the SBM coupe (Ron).

He's right about 9--while it seems like you'd be apexing too early there's a lot of track to track out too and a lot of compression going up the hill to increase traction. That lets you carry more speed through the corner and over-the-top of nine. I had your line, but took his suggestion and tried to change that a bit in later sessions. It's possible but requires you to fight a bit with your head since it's a blind corner over the top of the hill, and you're carrying more speed than you'd be able to pull off if it were flat.

Several of us did extensive testing on turn 11, second versus third gear. Third is faster. It doesn't feel that way, but the data say it is. Our car has enough torque that if you hit the corner right third is the better gear. You lose time and speed when you downshift and upshift. It also unsettles the car a little bit when you upshift. The Z is also notoriously difficult to get into second gear on the track. If you were in a Miata it would be a different story!

Very nice driving for a new driver! Keep up the good work!

My other suggestion would be to get more time with an instructor. It's hard to see what you're doing with your hands and feet, and that something an instructor can see and feel with you in the car. Another suggestion, ride along with an advanced driver. Sometimes you have to see that something can actually be done in order to believe you can do it, and there's a lot to learn from safe/faster drivers. Even just riding along with another driver at your own level lets you see and feel and understand the track from a very different perspective. When you don't have to process all of the inputs you can take stock of things like on and off camber, turn points, elevation changes, where rubber is or is not on the track, etc. Lastly if you ever have the opportunity to walk or bicycle the track it'll give you an entirely different perspective as well.

Enjoy!

Thanks for the advice! It looks like both turn 8 & 9 as well as the bypass on 5 require some guts lol! So third gear is still faster on turn 11 with the right line, makes sense. I also plan on having an instructor with NASA on the 13th

If any Z4M guys will be going to an event in Norcal anytime and would like to ride along/let me ride along for input, feel free to let me know for sure

[dschultz]

Ron is spot on. I do lots of NCRC events and always happy to give a ride or ride along. I will have to give NASA a try as it's the easiest way to get to Sears Point/Sonoma Raceway, but I'm kind of chicken.

[zachbooze]

Originally Posted by dschultz

Ron is spot on. I do lots of NCRC events and always happy to give a ride or ride along. I will have to give NASA a try as it's the easiest way to get to Sears Point/Sonoma Raceway, but I'm kind of chicken.

Yeah I'd love to go to Sonoma but I'd be sure to get track day insurance for my car just because of the stories I have heard lol

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by zachbooze

Yeah I'd love to go to Sonoma but I'd be sure to get track day insurance for my car just because of the stories I have heard lol

Smart plan!

It's not just about you. Buddy of mine who is a spec E-30 racer hit a wall there when an engine blew in front of him. Oil > driving skill.

[AriuSen]

drive a little more and come to buttonwillow!!
i feel like an ET as I never seen another z4m at the track lol
op, is easier to give tips if you could record your driving =)

[zachbooze]

Originally Posted by AriuSen

drive a little more and come to buttonwillow!!
i feel like an ET as I never seen another z4m at the track lol
op, is easier to give tips if you could record your driving =)

I'm guessing you mean the cockpit view of me. I got a GoPro for that and I may post some more video after my event at Sonoma this weekend

[dc_wright]

Originally Posted by zachbooze

I'm guessing you mean the cockpit view of me. I got a GoPro for that and I may post some more video after my event at Sonoma this weekend

Cool! If you're looking for a really good mount for the GoPro, take a look at this one made by Tackform. It's really well made and super stable. Here's a GoPro clip with the camera mount clamped on the inboard post of the passenger head rest

[dschultz]

Sadly no headrest posts on M seats. I thinks OPs car has racing buckets anyway.

[The HACK]

The curvature on the optional GoPro accessory mount base is perfect for the curve on the bulkhead just behind the seats. Remove the adhesive and use ScotchLock instead though, since the surface isn't smooth. Or superglue the base down if you don't mind that it'll be irreversible.

[zachbooze]

Originally Posted by dschultz

Sadly no headrest posts on M seats. I thinks OPs car has racing buckets anyway.

Yeah, I have racetech seats. I already have a rollbar mount that works pretty well for my GoPro

[dc_wright]

Originally Posted by dschultz

Sadly no headrest posts on M seats. I thinks OPs car has racing buckets anyway.

Crap! Forgot about that! Oh well, if someone with a non-M car is looking for a mount the tack form is a great one.

[zachbooze]

Update Aug. 26/27 Track Event at Sonoma Raceway. Lots of fun! I was able to get a shot of my driving from the cockpit with the picture in picture option but it was a pain in the ass. On this lap i went too wide on turn 11. There are a few other areas to improve as well. As always any input is welcomed

[Finnegan]

Watched this a few times, it's hard to offer comment without having driven this track. Looks like there is one corner you're coming close to the wall on (closing on the GT3) where a slower entry speed would have yielded a better exit speed. Lines seem good. What I can't tell from the video is what you're doing with the brakes--how smooth is the release and what's the brake management approach?

[zachbooze]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

Watched this a few times, it's hard to offer comment without having driven this track. Looks like there is one corner you're coming close to the wall on (closing on the GT3) where a slower entry speed would have yielded a better exit speed. Lines seem good. What I can't tell from the video is what you're doing with the brakes--how smooth is the release and what's the brake management approach?

In general I brake hard (not to the point of engaging ABS of course) in a straight line before turn in. Turns like turn 6 I have begun trail braking on (gradual release).

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by zachbooze

In general I brake hard (not to the point of engaging ABS of course) in a straight line before turn in. Turns like turn 6 I have begun trail braking on (gradual release).

Excellent. Coming off the brakes smoothly and gradually, yet fast, maximizes traction on turn-in by smoothly managing weight transfer. (But you probably already know that.) This is one of the better things I've read on managing brakes and technique. Great stuff!

I'm going to be at Thunderhill in Point By on October 7th. Maybe I'll see you there!

Here are a couple of my laps from last weekend. I had some issues with Harry's, so it's just video. But, tell me what you see!

Side note: BRZ/FRS with NT01s, coilovers, brake ducts, and BBK makes a pretty formidable track day toy. Down on power, but great on balance and handling. You can't right foot your way to faster times.

[zachbooze]

Those BRZ/FRS's are track day weapons with some modifications for sure! Pretty awesome. Next time I get out to thunder hill I am going to focus on using all of the track going into turn 1. I was with an instructor last time out that helped me carry significantly more speed through turn 1. I do let my car track out some on T5a but not as wide as in the video, how do you like it? Does it set you up any better for T6? Won't be able to track as much because of school