STROMUNG Exhuast for Z4M's

[MMMazing07]

i think the real question here is WHERE THE HELL IS ZEDDY???????????

[Burt Reynolds]

Originally Posted by Palantirion

-Actually, I regularly bash Eisemann and Supersprint because they produce crap (bad fitment, breakages due to weak metal/welds). Not every time, and not for every BMW application, but often enough that even in my short existence "behind the curtain" in the BMW tuning industry I've seen enough that I would not recommend either company's products. They both have great reputations, but neither deserves them IMO. Time will sort it out.


-I can't speak to others, but I happen to know the cost breakdown for BMS's exhaust. And you are paying only a few hundred dollars for the materials (including the x-pipe). Most of the cost is labor (the tips in particular are really tricky and time consuming to get perfect, the x-pipe is scratch built, etc.). There's actually very little margin in the product, and it all goes into paying down the expense of the R&D.

Supersprint and Eisemann build high quality exhausts. Many people question the value and that is a personal decision. However, to question bash the quality of thier product is in poor taste. I have one and find it to be of very high quality and the fitment is spot on. Also, do you really believe that everyone that has a BMS exhaust feels it is near perfection?

Peace.

[Palantirion]

Originally Posted by Burt Reynolds

Supersprint and Eisemann build high quality exhausts. Many people question the value and that is a personal decision. However, to question bash the quality of thier product is in poor taste. I have one and find it to be of very high quality and the fitment is spot on. Also, do you really believe that everyone that has a BMS exhaust feels it is near perfection?

Peace.

-It no doubt appears that I am biased toward BMS (and Dinan and StopTech and BMWs for that matter), and I would like to clear something up. I am not an employee of BMS. I do not get paid by BMS. I started off as an ordinary customer. By trade I am an artist and investor (my $ comes from the latter, enjoyment comes from the former). Shortly after becoming a customer (thanks to a referral by Dinan) I offered to do some graphic design work for BMS. It was good for my portfolio and they needed the work done. This evolved over time so that I am now their "Creative Director", although still as an unpaid volunteer. Through a bit of coincidence I ended up with a piddly ownership position (0.045% of my net worth). I had a bond come due with no specific place to dump it, so I figured I'd throw it into BMS. From this ownership position I get no income. Yes, I do tend to get the once-in-a-while free inspection or rack time, but no more than I did as a regular customer. I pay a little less than normal parts and labor, but a LOT more than cost. Again, very similar to how I was treated as a regular customer.

Why do I bother spending all this time volunteering for a company? Because they are good at what they do and, more importantly, trustworthy. The latter quality is frustratingly rare in the aftermarket. Ask Roman about why he props ESS! When I prop a product it's MY reputation I'm putting on the line, and that's more important than brand loyalty - or shop loyalty. When I bash a product it's because I've seen with my own eyes or taken from a very trusted source information that I am willing to attach my reputation to. I don't recommend products because BMS sells them. BMS only sells products that are worth recommending (that's why their product catalog is so small when compared to online retailers).

First and foremost I am a car enthusiast. I care less about shops, products, or forum sponsors than I do about owners. I am an owner. I was before BMS, and I will be after BMS (unless I die first, I guess). My loyalty is to the community, and that's why I bother posting about products. My goal is to spread consumer awareness of the good AND the bad. FYI: People like it more when you talk only about the former.


p.s. Regarding SS, I know many of their systems are fine. I'm just saying that I've seen several that were not, and I know of several others that have failed structurally. I thought it important that consumers know the difference between the reputation and the truth. I'm didn't mean to offend you personally for your choice in exhaust, and I take no offense to your comments - they are understandable.

[Dammmittt]

Originally Posted by Palantirion

-It no doubt appears that I am biased toward BMS (and Dinan and StopTech and BMWs for that matter), and I would like to clear something up. I am not an employee of BMS. I do not get paid by BMS. I started off as an ordinary customer. By trade I am an artist and investor (my $ comes from the latter, enjoyment comes from the former). Shortly after becoming a customer (thanks to a referral by Dinan) I offered to do some graphic design work for BMS. It was good for my portfolio and they needed the work done. This evolved over time so that I am now their "Creative Director", although still as an unpaid volunteer. Through a bit of coincidence I ended up with a piddly ownership position (0.045% of my net worth). I had a bond come due with no specific place to dump it, so I figured I'd throw it into BMS. From this ownership position I get no income. Yes, I do tend to get the once-in-a-while free inspection or rack time, but no more than I did as a regular customer. I pay a little less than normal parts and labor, but a LOT more than cost. Again, very similar to how I was treated as a regular customer.

Why do I bother spending all this time volunteering for a company? Because they are good at what they do and, more importantly, trustworthy. The latter quality is frustratingly rare in the aftermarket. Ask Roman about why he props ESS! When I prop a product it's MY reputation I'm putting on the line, and that's more important than brand loyalty - or shop loyalty. When I bash a product it's because I've seen with my own eyes or taken from a very trusted source information that I am willing to attach my reputation to. I don't recommend products because BMS sells them. BMS only sells products that are worth recommending (that's why their product catalog is so small when compared to online retailers).

First and foremost I am a car enthusiast. I care less about shops, products, or forum sponsors than I do about owners. I am an owner. I was before BMS, and I will be after BMS (unless I die first, I guess). My loyalty is to the community, and that's why I bother posting about products. My goal is to spread consumer awareness of the good AND the bad. FYI: People like it more when you talk only about the former.


p.s. Regarding SS, I know many of their systems are fine. I'm just saying that I've seen several that were not, and I know of several others that have failed structurally. I thought it important that consumers know the difference between the reputation and the truth. I'm didn't mean to offend you personally for your choice in exhaust, and I take no offense to your comments - they are understandable.

This is why I listen to you.

[sales@ESSTuning]

I really love my Supersprint exhaust. Build quality it top notch but I cant say that they make a great exhaust with every application they have. I have not had any experience with them other then this one application. I will admit that it is a very expensive exhaust compared to others but at the time they were the only ones making exhaust for our car so it was an easy choice. Given all the other options out now I think its great that someone can buy a well build nice sounding exhaust for less then $1k.

The one big problem I have with almost every aftermarket exhaust is drone. I cant stand it even a little it drives me crazy. I had Supersprint race before my powerloops and I did not like it. On my M3 I used the one exhaust everyone hated and bashed because it had no drone and I thought sounded great "Dinan" and I loved it. So opinions on exhaust will be all over the place. People always ask for opinions on what exhaust is the best and the answer they get is usually the one on the guys car that answers. Its no different with me

Thats my 2 cents on exhausts.

[Dieselino]

Just finished installing my Stromung exhaust tonight and if I had any doubts they are all gone. The exhausts fits and sounds awesome. The quality of this exhaust is very good, the fitment and the welds are very clean (yes they could have been polished as palantirion mentioned) but you never seen the welds unless you got your head underneath the car so its not an issue for me. Install was very easy and after talking to Scott from Stromung it made the install very simple to get adjusted how I wanted.

The factory exhaust uses a floating flange system which allows for alot of play. Before you tighten everything down, you just need to make sure the exhaust is lined up where you want it. Once its where you want it, just tighten each bolt alternating from side to side so it doesnt tighten one side more then the other and cause the exhaust to move or not create a proper seal. Its very logical and simple really.

The tips are very nice and are 3" in diameter compared to 2.5" stock. They actually look very OEM. The best part for me is that I no longer see that damn stock exhaust hanging down like a pair of nuts. As I said the tips look very OEM especially the size. However I would have liked the tips to be slightly larger for more of an aftermarket appearance. Putting the exhaust on really makes you notice how ugly the stock system is.

Lastly the sound, its not as loud as I thought it was going to be which I like. I really didnt want an exhaust that would drown out the sound of the engine as I love hearing the S54 rev up. You still can hear the engine but now the car has a nice deeper growl. I still havent driven it on the highway to see if it drones at a constant speed, but so far I havent noticed anything. The sound is just deeper and a little louder.

I would say if you are looking for a louder exhaust this one is not the way to go. I personally really like the sound, its just loud enough for my tastes. You can tell the car has an exhaust put I can still hear myself think. Plus I didnt want to render my blue tooth useless. Overall for the price and quality you can go wrong with this exhaust

[Palantirion]

Originally Posted by Rom3n

I really love my Supersprint exhaust. Build quality it top notch but I cant say that they make a great exhaust with every application they have. I have not had any experience with them other then this one application. I will admit that it is a very expensive exhaust compared to others but at the time they were the only ones making exhaust for our car so it was an easy choice. Given all the other options out now I think its great that someone can buy a well build nice sounding exhaust for less then $1k.

The one big problem I have with almost every aftermarket exhaust is drone. I cant stand it even a little it drives me crazy. I had Supersprint race before my powerloops and I did not like it. On my M3 I used the one exhaust everyone hated and bashed because it had no drone and I thought sounded great "Dinan" and I loved it. So opinions on exhaust will be all over the place. People always ask for opinions on what exhaust is the best and the answer they get is usually the one on the guys car that answers. Its no different with me

Thats my 2 cents on exhausts.

-For example, I hate rasp. I don't mind a little drone if it's not in the rpm range I use for cruising. But I do NOT like rasp. Funny thing is the only Dinan exhaust I don't like the sound of is their E46 M3 exhaust - because of the rasp. But it's an awesome exhaust, good power, no drone. Just not my preference.

Originally Posted by Dieselino

Just finished installing my Stromung exhaust tonight and if I had any doubts they are all gone. The exhausts fits and sounds awesome. The quality of this exhaust is very good, the fitment and the welds are very clean (yes they could have been polished as palantirion mentioned) but you never seen the welds unless you got your head underneath the car so its not an issue for me. Install was very easy and after talking to Scott from Stromung it made the install very simple to get adjusted how I wanted.

The factory exhaust uses a floating flange system which allows for alot of play. Before you tighten everything down, you just need to make sure the exhaust is lined up where you want it. Once its where you want it, just tighten each bolt alternating from side to side so it doesnt tighten one side more then the other and cause the exhaust to move or not create a proper seal. Its very logical and simple really.

The tips are very nice and are 3" in diameter compared to 2.5" stock. They actually look very OEM. The best part for me is that I no longer see that damn stock exhaust hanging down like a pair of nuts. As I said the tips look very OEM especially the size. However I would have liked the tips to be slightly larger for more of an aftermarket appearance. Putting the exhaust on really makes you notice how ugly the stock system is.

Lastly the sound, its not as loud as I thought it was going to be which I like. I really didnt want an exhaust that would drown out the sound of the engine as I love hearing the S54 rev up. You still can hear the engine but now the car has a nice deeper growl. I still havent driven it on the highway to see if it drones at a constant speed, but so far I havent noticed anything. The sound is just deeper and a little louder.

I would say if you are looking for a louder exhaust this one is not the way to go. I personally really like the sound, its just loud enough for my tastes. You can tell the car has an exhaust put I can still hear myself think. Plus I didnt want to render my blue tooth useless. Overall for the price and quality you can go wrong with this exhaust

-They did a good job fitting the exhaust to you car

[Zoomby_U]

Sound clips ... we need sound clips people! And a dyno plot would be nice :-)

[Dammmittt]

Originally Posted by Zoomby_U

Sound clips ... we need sound clips people! And a dyno plot would be nice :-)

+1 for a dyno.

[Dieselino]

Wont be getting a dyno from me. I could care less, its a set of mufflers its really not going to do anything. It is strictly for appearance and sound.

[Black///Mamba]

Originally Posted by Dammmittt

+1 for a dyno.

again, why do you care about the dyno when we all know you are not going to buying it?

[Dieselino]

Originally Posted by Black///M

again, why do you care about the dyno when we all know you are not going to buying it?

[Dammmittt]

Originally Posted by Black///M

again, why do you care about the dyno when we all know you are not going to buying it?

Future reference bro. I know most people don't care about gains with exhausts...but losses aren't wanted either.

[Palantirion]

Originally Posted by Dammmittt

Future reference bro. I know most people don't care about gains with exhausts...but losses aren't wanted either.

+1, I'm always curious too.

I also like to compare the dyno plots (if any exist) of exhausts built "just for sound" to BMS's. Without DME reprogramming it's tough to make any change in peak HP, but quite possible to gain useful power through the bottom and midrange (IE: daily driving rpm range). There are basically four criteria for selecting an exhaust (sound, perceived quality, power and cost), as weight savings and appearance are good with just about every aftermarket exhaust for the Z4 M. Sound is the most subjective, most people see quality of most of the exhaust offerings as acceptable, costs range a bit from $1k to $2k. Power is the one aspect that I see people willing to give up on the Z4 M because it's "just an exhaust". True, there's not a lot to be gained without software, but most exhaust companies don't even print dyno runs. This leads me to think that they are not in any way tuning for power, but just for sound and looks. Well, IF you're looking at comparable sound, looks and price - why not get an extra 5-10hp? Even if it's through 2/3s of the rpm range, that's still power you didn't have before.

I think I'm just a bit old-school on the subject of exhausts. First and foremost there should be some power gain. Paying money for different sound/tips is like paying money for bling wheels - why not get a performance advantage AND better appearance instead. The answer of course is that people are very particular about the look of their wheels, just like they are about the sound of their exhausts.

[Dieselino]

If you are familiar with the S54 in the E46 M3 and all the exhaust arguements, posts, and dyno plots... the conclusion is that the only real way to gain any noticeable power for this motor through the exhaust system is headers, and even then you are looking at 10-15hp average. Its alot of money for not alot of gains. Some systems have even lost power. Yes there are differences between the E46 M3 and the Z4M coupe, but not enough to warrant huge gains from the exhaust. Believe it or not the stock exhaust is designed very well. The sad truth is that exhausts for this motor truly are more of a bling item. If you want to spend thousands on exhausts for performance, your money would be much better spent on a driving school. This motor isnt forced induction nor is it a big V8 with a constricted exhaust system, so you wont get 30-40hp like you do in those scenarios. However in Rom3n's situation with the ESS supercharger, that changes all the factors. But not on a base motor.

[Dammmittt]

Originally Posted by Dieselino

If you are familiar with the S54 in the E46 M3 and all the exhaust arguements, posts, and dyno plots... the conclusion is that the only real way to gain any noticeable power for this motor through the exhaust system is headers, and even then you are looking at 10-15hp average. Its alot of money for not alot of gains. Some systems have even lost power. Yes there are differences between the E46 M3 and the Z4M coupe, but not enough to warrant huge gains from the exhaust. Believe it or not the stock exhaust is designed very well. The sad truth is that exhausts for this motor truly are more of a bling item. If you want to spend thousands on exhausts for performance, your money would be much better spent on a driving school. This motor isnt forced induction nor is it a big V8 with a constricted exhaust system, so you wont get 30-40hp like you do in those scenarios. However in Rom3n's situation with the ESS supercharger, that changes all the factors. But not on a base motor.

I think the point here is that you want to make sure the exhaust hasn't lost you power. Like you said, the stock exhaust system is well designed (even if it is fugly), so the potential for a better looking exhaust to lose power is a real concern. So...why not put it on a dyno just to make sure? If I'm throwing money at an exhaust I know for damn sure that I don't want it to make the car worse...

[Palantirion]

Originally Posted by Dieselino

If you are familiar with the S54 in the E46 M3 and all the exhaust arguements, posts, and dyno plots... the conclusion is that the only real way to gain any noticeable power for this motor through the exhaust system is headers, and even then you are looking at 10-15hp average. Its alot of money for not alot of gains. Some systems have even lost power. Yes there are differences between the E46 M3 and the Z4M coupe, but not enough to warrant huge gains from the exhaust. Believe it or not the stock exhaust is designed very well. The sad truth is that exhausts for this motor truly are more of a bling item. If you want to spend thousands on exhausts for performance, your money would be much better spent on a driving school. This motor isnt forced induction nor is it a big V8 with a constricted exhaust system, so you wont get 30-40hp like you do in those scenarios. However in Rom3n's situation with the ESS supercharger, that changes all the factors. But not on a base motor.

-Essentially you are correct. One consideration though, which is now available for our cars, is custom adaptive software like ESS's. A significant reason exhausts don't help much on S54 motors is because the DME steps in if certain values go out of spec. The only solution to this is software. I'm currently working on a composite dyno chart of my car from bone stock to BMS Stage 2 exhaust, then Stage 3 (never produced for sale), then Stage 2 + RPI scoop, then back to Stage 3 + RPI + ESS software. I think it will be very enlightening once I get it all sorted out. I'll keep you guys posted.

[Dieselino]

That should be interesting to see the results. Please do keep us posted. What does stage 3 BMS intale may i ask?

[Palantirion]

Originally Posted by Dieselino

That should be interesting to see the results. Please do keep us posted. What does stage 3 BMS intale may i ask?

-It replaces the secondary US cats with a resonator/straight pipe. Actually cleans up the sound a lot and makes a buttload more power down low (like +35 TQ at 3300rpm vs stock). Previously it lost as much power up high as it gained down low. But not any more I originally theorized that the DME was responsible for the high-end power loss, and since that is now gone after ESS software I think it is safe to conclude I was correct in my estimation. Anyway, back to work...details to follow, many charts, etc.

[mlink]

Well I just finished the install and all is great! It was a snap to put on and it is well aligned and sounds hot. It is a 15% increase in sound and a bit lower tone. I like it. It does wake up a bit more when you run the rpm's up but it is not rice... more of a grawl.

If there is any change in power the butt would vote for a torque pick up in the mid range. No loss I would bet, in power and if anything a slight pick up.
No dyno run to prove it though.

[Dieselino]

mlink, where in michigan are you? Never seen a bronze m coupe running around.

[mlink]

I was thinking the same thing when I saw your post.

I live in Chesterfield and work in Fraser....

Mike