Bridging the gap-Z4 Coupe vs Cayman

[UncleScottie]

I know one of the easiest things to do is to replace the Run-flats with conventional tires to yield both better ride and handling. However, I'm not sure if I even want to spend the money to do that and still end up longing for a better car.

I know brake pads play a role in feel, but can a switch in pads alone get one close to that of the Cayman's brakes?

I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done to help with "feel" from the electrically assisted power steering. Some say conventional tires will help here as well, but I can't see them fixing the numb feel.

The gearbox, well I'm quite spoiled from my '04 S2000, so I've given up hope there.

The creamy power delivery of the 3.0 inline 6 certainly had me forgetting about beloved S2000, but as I accomulate more and more seat time in the Z4, I miss the S2000 more and more.

Of late I have taken several Cayman and Cayman S test drives and kick myself for choosing the Z4 over it strictly on price.

[apexstrafer]

Should've got an M...

[Rick Hunter]

X2.

The Cayman S is a wonderfully balanced and powerful car, but it'll never be as fun or as unique as a Z4MC.

[Crimson92]

the z4m closes the gap....then slaps it

[Z3Z4MC]

I've seen a lot of Z4MC and Cayman S comparisons. Most come down to preferences rather than one is a lot better than the other.

Your problem could be comparing a Z4C 3.0si to a Cayman S. Maybe the performance gap is just too big to make a fair comparison. Like most have stated, an M version maybe a better comparison to the Cayman S.

[UncleScottie]

Originally Posted by Rick Hunter

X2.

The Cayman S is a wonderfully balanced and powerful car, but it'll never be as fun or as unique as a Z4MC.

Yes, the M does have the hydraulic assisted steering and conventional tires. And yes there aren't that many around giving it uniqueness, except in this forum where non-M owners are fewer and far between.

If only BMW could have stuck to the formula that built their reputation/sucess, instead of cashing in on it. Things have only seemed to have gotten worse with the new Z4.

[UncleScottie]

Originally Posted by Z3Z4MC

I've seen a lot of Z4MC and Cayman S comparisons. Most come down to preferences rather than one is a lot better than the other.

Your problem could be comparing a Z4C 3.0si to a Cayman S. Maybe the performance gap is just too big to make a fair comparison. Like most have stated, an M version maybe a better comparison to the Cayman S.

I'm not sure why everyone keeps pushing the M thing. BMW has certainly made good "Driver's cars" in the past that were non-M cars. Is the only way to get a halfway decent BMW these days is to buy an M or used bimmer from back before they lost the formula?

As my title states, "Z4 Coupe vs Cayman". I have test driven mostly base Caymans and it is to that base model that I feel there is a gap. Yes, the 3.0si's engine is the stronger of the two and the Z4 is more unique looking, but that's about it if you don't take cost into account.

Sorry for not waving the BMW flag simply because it is the BMW flag. My loyalty is to good cars, not brands. I'm also not saying the Z4 Coupe 3.0si is a bad car, just that it could have been better without much effort on BMW's part. My main question is whether or not I can improve things for reasonable money or will the costs get to a point where I would be better off just buying a better car.

[apexstrafer]

Originally Posted by UncleScottie

I'm not sure why everyone keeps pushing the M thing. BMW has certainly made good "Driver's cars" in the past that were non-M cars. Is the only way to get a halfway decent BMW these days is to buy an M or used bimmer from back before they lost the formula?

As my title states, "Z4 Coupe vs Cayman". I have test driven mostly base Caymans and it is to that base model that I feel there is a gap. Yes, the 3.0si's engine is the stronger of the two and the Z4 is more unique looking, but that's about it if you don't take cost into account.

Sorry for not waving the BMW flag simply because it is the BMW flag. My loyalty is to good cars, not brands. I'm also not saying the Z4 Coupe 3.0si is a bad car, just that it could have been better without much effort on BMW's part. My main question is whether or not I can improve things for reasonable money or will the costs get to a point where I would be better off just buying a better car.

That's the question we're answering. There really isn't anything you can do to the base coupe to sufficiently bridge the gap between it and the Cayman in terms of driving dynamics and feel. Going to an M will give you the best of both worlds though; comparable P-car performance AND good looks.

[sentravq]

Originally Posted by UncleScottie

I know one of the easiest things to do is to replace the Run-flats with conventional tires to yield both better ride and handling. However, I'm not sure if I even want to spend the money to do that and still end up longing for a better car.

I know brake pads play a role in feel, but can a switch in pads alone get one close to that of the Cayman's brakes?

I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done to help with "feel" from the electrically assisted power steering. Some say conventional tires will help here as well, but I can't see them fixing the numb feel.

The gearbox, well I'm quite spoiled from my '04 S2000, so I've given up hope there.

The creamy power delivery of the 3.0 inline 6 certainly had me forgetting about beloved S2000, but as I accomulate more and more seat time in the Z4, I miss the S2000 more and more.

Of late I have taken several Cayman and Cayman S test drives and kick myself for choosing the Z4 over it strictly on price.

You shoulda kept the s and slap in a SOS system. Im looking for a M myself. Overall nothing beats the feel of a FI S but the Z4mc is just too sweet!

[pbdm4k]

Gap bridged (and then some):



Any questions?

[vachss]

The (base) Cayman was on my short list when I was looking for the car that eventually became my Z4 Coupe. I'll get flamed for this, but I found the Cayman to be the better handling car. I came from an MR2 so my preference for the balance of a mid-engine car may have something to do with this assessment. You can make a Z4 corner just as well as an MR2 or a Cayman - at least in terms of absolute speeds and G-force - but there's something about the feel of a light mid-engined car with the driver at the center of rotation that will always give me a much more "connected" feeling.

Regardless, you can't just take price out of the equation. When I was looking in late '07 a base Cayman would have cost somewhere in the mid/high-$50s while I was able to get my Z4 Coupe for $32K. In bang per buck that was just impossible for me to ignore. If I really wanted the extra performance edge I could have picked up a loaded Z4M Coupe for $10-15K less than a base Cayman.

In short, it's easy to come up with expensive cars that outperform the non-M Z4. That doesn't make it any less of a great sportscar for the money.

But as to the OP's question: Probably the most cost effective way to improve the handling of the Z4 is with better tires, proper alignment and possibly stiffer swaybars. At the next level of cost some folks swear by coilover suspension setups, but I think the stock sports package suspension on the Z4 is actually pretty good.

[Z4MCJJ]

One thing you may want to consider is new suspension....

Anecdotally...
I have a Z4M Coupe that on the track was fairly comparable to the Cayman S.
Then I changed my suspension to TCKline D/As and the Cayman S is now far behind...in fact I was going around 997 911s at my last outing.

[SystemR]

having recently gone from a z4 (ok yes 2.5i) to the base boxster the big differences imo are handling, steering and brakes.

yes getting rid of the RFT's will make a big diff (i put on Dunlop Z1 Star Specs) but it still just doesn't feel as composed as a pcar.

Steering, well not much you can do with the electronic steering.

Brakes? Put on some 4 pot fixed piston brembos.

I got a fat discount on the boxster, more than 07 Z4M's where being blown out for back in the day, this put it brand new in the 3X,XXX range. The fact that the new Z4 is more SLK than Boxster sealed the deal for me.

Z4M? Great car, but i wanted to go in a different direction.

[Rick Hunter]

IMHO, UncleScotty, you're not going to be satisfied with your results of modding the 3.0si. It's not because the Z4C is not capable, because it is more of a sportscar than most can handle. It is because the non-M formula just won't work for an experienced driver like yourself.

If you are considering staying within the BMW brand, then you need to testdrive the M. Otherwise I'd trade up to a Cayman instead. I easily could have went with the Cayman S, but I could see myself getting bored of it since it's almost too easy to drive. The M is more of an engaging car. BTW, I have test driven the Cayman S and I would never trade my M for one. And I have no brand loyalty whatsoever.

[epbrown]

Originally Posted by UncleScottie

I know one of the easiest things to do is to replace the Run-flats with conventional tires to yield both better ride and handling. However, I'm not sure if I even want to spend the money to do that and still end up longing for a better car.

To answer your original post - I don't think you can get there from here. The brakes are better on the Cayman because Porsche takes brakes more seriously than almost any manufacturer, and pads won't make up the difference with your Z4. The better steering feel is partly the result of the hydraulic steering, but largely due to the mid-engine layout taking a lot of weight off the front tires. Again, nothing you can do about that.

[Matty C]

Originally Posted by Rick Hunter

IMHO, UncleScotty, you're not going to be satisfied with your results of modding the 3.0si. It's not because the Z4C is not capable, because it is more of a sportscar than most can handle. It is because the non-M formula just won't work for an experienced driver like yourself.

If you are considering staying within the BMW brand, then you need to testdrive the M. Otherwise I'd trade up to a Cayman instead. I easily could have went with the Cayman S, but I could see myself getting bored of it since it's almost too easy to drive. The M is more of an engaging car. BTW, I have test driven the Cayman S and I would never trade my M for one. And I have no brand loyalty whatsoever.

I have to agree with Rick. I've driven the Cayman S and was considering it when my E46 M3 was totaled. The Cayman S is a great car and the car can make anyone a great driver. I believe that the Z4M is more of a beast and if you don't drive it right it will kick you in your ass. For me there was no choice between the two. I've had the Z4M for two years now and haven't gotten bored. I love the car and see myself keeping it as a toy forever.

[rc'Z]

The M might be a better driving machine, but still looses it to the Porsche in the looks department.

[Tonybest]

^^^^
your opinion

[pbdm4k]

Originally Posted by epbrown

To answer your original post - I don't think you can get there from here. The brakes are better on the Cayman because Porsche takes brakes more seriously than almost any manufacturer, and pads won't make up the difference with your Z4. The better steering feel is partly the result of the hydraulic steering, but largely due to the mid-engine layout taking a lot of weight off the front tires. Again, nothing you can do about that.

Realistically, the Z4 is more like a mid-front layout. Look where the engine sits. It's nicely sandwiched between the front wheels with the bulk of the weight pushed towards the firewall. BMW says the Z4 sits at 50:50 weight distribution.

Originally Posted by Rick Hunter

IMHO, UncleScotty, you're not going to be satisfied with your results of modding the 3.0si. It's not because the Z4C is not capable, because it is more of a sportscar than most can handle. It is because the non-M formula just won't work for an experienced driver like yourself.

If you are considering staying within the BMW brand, then you need to testdrive the M. Otherwise I'd trade up to a Cayman instead. I easily could have went with the Cayman S, but I could see myself getting bored of it since it's almost too easy to drive. The M is more of an engaging car. BTW, I have test driven the Cayman S and I would never trade my M for one. And I have no brand loyalty whatsoever.

Originally Posted by Matty C

I have to agree with Rick. I've driven the Cayman S and was considering it when my E46 M3 was totaled. The Cayman S is a great car and the car can make anyone a great driver. I believe that the Z4M is more of a beast and if you don't drive it right it will kick you in your ass. For me there was no choice between the two. I've had the Z4M for two years now and haven't gotten bored. I love the car and see myself keeping it as a toy forever.

Different strokes for different folks. In regards to the transmission feel, get the CDV delete from Zeckhausen. It's inexpensive and does wonders for clutch feel.

I'm running a custom coilover configuration with Brembo brakes front and back. More importantly, I ditched the run flats for PROPER tires. On the power side, I've got a Dinan intake and exhaust which helps a bit. Keeping up with Z4M's or faster cars on the track are no problem flying through the turns. Sure they've got more oomph in the straights, but that won't be a problem for long.

Don't underestimate the non-M's just because they weren't blessed with M divisions' good graces and crazy parts bag. When it comes down to it. Both cars sit on the same frame rails with the same layout. Parts can be interchanged or modified to make up for any feature you find lacking.

But when it comes down to it, how much do you really want to spend?
For me personally, I've spent less modding my Z4 than I would've spent buying an M version. And at the end of it all, my car will outhandle and outpower a stock Z4M for less money.

[UncleScottie]

Originally Posted by pbdm4k

But when it comes down to it, how much do you really want to spend?
For me personally, I've spent less modding my Z4 than I would've spent buying an M version. And at the end of it all, my car will outhandle and outpower a stock Z4M for less money.

Yes, but one takes more risks modding towards desired results versus test driving to find something that already meets them. I've gone down the modding route many times in the past only to be disappointed by the results. And I'm not talking about blindly trying different things. I always research as much as I can. And better yet, test drive a car with the mods whenever possible. However, with the low production numbers of Z4 coupes, this is not as easy of a task.

[Z3Z4MC]

Originally Posted by Tonybest

^^^^
your opinion

+1

[Z3Z4MC]

Originally Posted by UncleScottie

Yes, but one takes more risks modding towards desired results versus test driving to find something that already meets them. I've gone down the modding route many times in the past only to be disappointed by the results. And I'm not talking about blindly trying different things. I always research as much as I can. And better yet, test drive a car with the mods whenever possible. However, with the low production numbers of Z4 coupes, this is not as easy of a task.

Sounds like it's time to trade in the Z4 for the Cayman then.

You are like me. When I can't convince myself that the car I have can be made to meet or beat the expectation of another desired car, then I know it's time for me to trade it in. I have done this with many cars, including my current Z3MC. I just feel that the only way to move to that next level in power is SC. So, I decide to sell it for a Z4MC.