Two Boxster vs Z4 questions...

[Twisted Six]

Perhaps not.....maybe just the feel I experience in my own car encouraging me to drive it faster and more controlled than they ??

Who knows....I didn't slow down to interview them.....besides, I seriously doubt the conversation would be one they'd like to have,lol.

[mhughett]

Originally Posted by chickdr

Again, if it were so widespread, this would be the #1 discussion topic on the Boxster boards, sales would have tanked, etc. Porsche may not make a public statement about the issue, but this doesn't stop owners from taking it online(which they most certainly would do with the amount of $$$ at stake).



I seriously doubt it is related to your si being a better/faster car - especially on a cloverleaf....

That's exactly what they have done, and in pretty high numbers. Unfortunately for them, Porsche will not disclose the extent of their problem and therefore, it limits their ability to negotiate a favorable settlement once the warranty expires. However, there is enough data out there to determine that the problem affects a significant number of owners. Like I said earlier, there are enough disgruntled owners that have documented their problems to keep you entertained for days.

[AtoB]

funny, i test drove a 2009 boxster S yesterday.... absolutely loved it.
it will be my next car, nothing else out there really meets my very narrow criteria.
i drove one four years ago and was not tremendously impressed... this 09 was a different car... much better power and response IMO. can't wait.

[chickdr]

Originally Posted by mhughett

That's exactly what they have done, and in pretty high numbers. Unfortunately for them, Porsche will not disclose the extent of their problem and therefore, it limits their ability to negotiate a favorable settlement once the warranty expires. However, there is enough data out there to determine that the problem affects a significant number of owners. Like I said earlier, there are enough disgruntled owners that have documented their problems to keep you entertained for days.

Don't see it. As I said, I had a 2002 2.7(which is right in the heart of the time frame) from 2002-2006 and spent just as much time on the Boxster forums as I do the Z4 forums now. There were a few posts about RMS's and very sporadic IMS issues, but nothing as widespread as some would have you believe. I do agree Porsche is not owning up publically to the issue, but they have taken care of RMS issues out of warranty in many cases. I could say the same thing about the 3.2 M motor with its early failures. Do these sorts of things sour peoples feelings about the brand? Sure they do as people expect perfection when buying a premium sports car. Does it warrant telling people to shy away from the Boxster? NIMHO....

[mhughett]

Originally Posted by chickdr

Don't see it. As I said, I had a 2002 2.7(which is right in the heart of the time frame) from 2002-2006 and spent just as much time on the Boxster forums as I do the Z4 forums now. There were a few posts about RMS's and very sporadic IMS issues, but nothing as widespread as some would have you believe. I do agree Porsche is not owning up publically to the issue, but they have taken care of RMS issues out of warranty in many cases. I could say the same thing about the 3.2 M motor with its early failures. Do these sorts of things sour peoples feelings about the brand? Sure they do as people expect perfection when buying a premium sports car. Does it warrant telling people to shy away from the Boxster? NIMHO....

I agree with you that BMW had problems with early S54 engines and virtually all of the failing engines were replaced under warranty at no cost to the owners. When BMW had problems in the mid 90's with their early V-8 engines (Nikasil), they extended warranties on all of these engines to 100k miles and replaced quite a few engines at no cost to the owners. I'm not saying BMW never has engine issues. All I'm trying to point out is that it sure seems to me that they have handled them in a much more responsible manner than has Porsche and did much more to take care of its customers. Many failed Porsche engines had less than 30k miles and were out of warranty due to low annual mileage put on the cars by their owners. Those that were second hand owners who tried to appeal to Porsche for assistance were turned away and were told that "they were not customers of Porsche".

I agree with you that sometimes these internet message boards are dominated by a minority of owners and therefore it is sometimes difficult to sort out the facts. However, there was enough data on this issue to keep me in the BMW fold.The Porsches drive wonderfully but I'm in it for the long haul and I needed to feel comfortable that the Company would stand behind its products. I feel like I have that with BMW.

[Huz-Z]

Originally Posted by password

You Keep mentioning track time and test cars on track which dont mean a thing in real life, so what if either the Boxster or the Z4 got to the finish line within a second a head? Track racing and testing is one thing but real world everyday driving is another thing and that is what 99% of us do. The Boxster has better Chassis, better suspension, better handling and balance than the Z4 and it has the mid engine set up and its lighter. Even 5th gear with Jeremy Clarkson who loves the new Z4 but hates the old one said that the Z4 (both new and old) never did manage to reach the "Nirvana" level of the Boxster and he is absolutely true about that. Porsche has been making the Boxster well over 50 years, BMW started in 1997 with the Z3. I can't see how anyone can claim that the Boxster's ride comfort for a roadster, chasiss, suspension, superb braking and balance is not better than the Z4! Even motortrend.com review of Z43.0si vs Boxster S says the exact same thing I am stating. Z4 with sport pkg has a broken ride most of the time, you yourself might be used to it but that doesn't hide the fact. Driving the car back in 04 and my friend's Z4 currently and while your on the freeway and your constantly bouncing in your seat and you call this a BMW roadster drive!!!!!, its not and the Boaxter never behaves like that. That is one of the many reasons why BMW redesigned the Z4 completely and went to concentrate on luxury and comfort rather sportiness and Boxster competition. One last point, the Boxster's sales never faltered but look at the Z4 sales before ending production in late 2008, even BMW admitted sales were faltering and were well below that of the Boxster and SLK, so they chose the safe way (and only way for them), they went after the SLK with a Z4 hardtop for luxury and comfort and have created a great one for that matter.

Jeremy Clarkson is a cranky old wanker who complains about everything. The man must have terminal hemmoroids or something. I defer to fine drivers like Jason Plato and Tiff Needell who don't see a big diference in the pre-2009 Z4 and the Boxster.

And, as you don't mind telling folks here about how much better the Boxster is, then my advice to you is go buy one of the bug-ugly things.

[SystemR]

Originally Posted by Huz-Z

Jeremy Clarkson is a cranky old wanker who complains about everything. The man must have terminal hemmoroids or something. I defer to fine drivers like Jason Plato and Tiff Needell who don't see a big diference in the pre-2009 Z4 and the Boxster.

And, as you don't mind telling folks here about how much better the Boxster is, then my advice to you is go buy one of the bug-ugly things.

ahah this is the kettle calling the pot black, flame surfacing has never been particularly good looking. i think the boxster looks better from the front and the z4 better from the back.

[Huz-Z]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I think the Z4 looks great from any angle. In fact, although I have a 2006, I think the 2003, 2004 and 2005 Z4's original design looks even better.

As to the Boxster, its not bad looking, I'll admit. And while it does have classic Porsche lines that are instantly recognizable, I simply prefer the BMW's styling.

I hate to dump on anyone's ride and I thus am perplexed why some folks, especially Z4 amateur drivers here like me, are so zealous to say that the Boxster is better - when professional and experienced drivers such as the guys I've mentioned above - who have driven both cars side by side on a closed track - find relatively little difference in them.

And I've driven my Z4 on the highway and the ride has been as smooth as silk.

[chickdr]

Originally Posted by mhughett

I agree with you that BMW had problems with early S54 engines and virtually all of the failing engines were replaced under warranty at no cost to the owners. When BMW had problems in the mid 90's with their early V-8 engines (Nikasil), they extended warranties on all of these engines to 100k miles and replaced quite a few engines at no cost to the owners. I'm not saying BMW never has engine issues. All I'm trying to point out is that it sure seems to me that they have handled them in a much more responsible manner than has Porsche and did much more to take care of its customers. Many failed Porsche engines had less than 30k miles and were out of warranty due to low annual mileage put on the cars by their owners. Those that were second hand owners who tried to appeal to Porsche for assistance were turned away and were told that "they were not customers of Porsche".

I agree with you that sometimes these internet message boards are dominated by a minority of owners and therefore it is sometimes difficult to sort out the facts. However, there was enough data on this issue to keep me in the BMW fold.The Porsches drive wonderfully but I'm in it for the long haul and I needed to feel comfortable that the Company would stand behind its products. I feel like I have that with BMW.

Let me give you another example. My first experience with a Porsche was with my mothers '87 944S. She bought it from the first owner with very low miles. The 944S was known for breaking timing belts and ours had been done at 15K under a TSB. I was driving the car one day and the replacement belt broke(at about 25K). The top of the engine was trashed - an interference design. The car was out of warranty and as I said we were the second owner. Porsche agreed to supply all the parts for the rebuild gratis if we paid the labor. I think this was pretty fair. I think Porsche likes to make offers under the table rather than out in the open.

[Huz-Z]

Originally Posted by password

DUDE! Stop comparing the two cars on the track, almost any car can perform well on the track but put it in the streets and you will see the superiority of the Boxster: it has raiser sharp handling and it makes the road "Transparent" to the driver. The Z4 can not do that END of STORY. The Boxster is 10K more than the Z4 and it has its engine in the middle, its suspension and chassis setup are better tuned and balanced than the Z4 (I.e they have been doing it for over 50 years), and everyone knows the last generation Z4 is nervous over broken pavement or any irregularity, its more like an American based suspension than a German one. The Z4 wins in terms of styling (subjective), price (10k less), more standard features, and a great free maintenance program.

If you like Boxsters so much, why the hell are you driving a Z4? That seems rather stunned to me!

Geez!!!!!

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by password

DUDE! Stop comparing the two cars on the track, almost any car can perform well on the track but put it in the streets and you will see the superiority of the Boxster: it has raiser sharp handling and it makes the road "Transparent" to the driver. The Z4 can not do that END of STORY. The Boxster is 10K more than the Z4 and it has its engine in the middle, its suspension and chassis setup are better tuned and balanced than the Z4 (I.e they have been doing it for over 50 years), and everyone knows the last generation Z4 is nervous over broken pavement or any irregularity, its more like an American based suspension than a German one. The Z4 wins in terms of styling (subjective), price (10k less), more standard features, and a great free maintenance program.

What is a raiser? And personally, I like to see the road when I am driving on it. Don't know how it being transparent is a good thing.

While I have not driven a Porsche to the extent that I have my Z4, I can easily say that the Z4 is not "nervous" over any kind of pavement and it handles very well on the streets.

I have driven both on the streets and do not see any superiority either way. I see a lot of differences, but the thing with those is the "superior" changes with preferences.

[WhoU4]

Originally Posted by Huz-Z

As to the Boxster, its not bad looking, I'll admit. And while it does have classic Porsche lines that are instantly recognizable, I simply prefer the BMW's styling.

The nice thing about the Z4 (and Z3/Z8) is that BMW stuck to the "classic" Roadster design of a front engine, long hood, and being able to drive by the seat of your pants considering you are almost sitting over the rear wheels.

To each their own, but I'm not ashamed to say I love cornering in the Zed...

[mhughett]

Originally Posted by password

DUDE! Stop comparing the two cars on the track, almost any car can perform well on the track but put it in the streets and you will see the superiority of the Boxster: it has raiser sharp handling and it makes the road "Transparent" to the driver. The Z4 can not do that END of STORY. The Boxster is 10K more than the Z4 and it has its engine in the middle, its suspension and chassis setup are better tuned and balanced than the Z4 (I.e they have been doing it for over 50 years), and everyone knows the last generation Z4 is nervous over broken pavement or any irregularity, its more like an American based suspension than a German one. The Z4 wins in terms of styling (subjective), price (10k less), more standard features, and a great free maintenance program.

Yo Password, have you actually seen where the Boxter engine is located. It is most certainly NOT "in the middle of the suspension". That would be where the driver and passenger are sitting. The center of the engine might be about 3 inches ahead of the rear suspension but they still call it a "mid-engine" car. If you look at the weight distribution of both cars, the BMW is 50/50 whereas the Boxter is about 46/54. This no doubt helps the traction of the rear wheels of the Boxter but it still has rear bias handling. Not nearly as bad as the 911 but it's not perfect.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by mhughett

Yo Password, have you actually seen where the Boxter engine is located. It is most certainly NOT "in the middle of the suspension". That would be where the driver and passenger are sitting. The center of the engine might be about 3 inches ahead of the rear suspension but they still call it a "mid-engine" car. If you look at the weight distribution of both cars, the BMW is 50/50 whereas the Boxter is about 46/54. This no doubt helps the traction of the rear wheels of the Boxter but it still has rear bias handling. Not nearly as bad as the 911 but it's not perfect.

I always think Hammond sums it up the best when looking at the most appropriate comparison - Z4M vs Boxter S (as the prices were close) "Boxster flatters your ego" "Z4M thrills you in the most primeval way":

I found the Boxster precise and a little underwhelming in the fun factor compared with the brutish fun of the Z4M. Fun won the day for me.

[Hawkeye]

I like that video comparo That is the one I show people who don't know what a z4 can really do.

Much better than the 3.0si vs 350Z

[Huz-Z]

I just like nice video of the car on the road with the top down:

What can the Z4 really make you do? Smile!!!!

Cheers!!

[BlueZ4AZ]

Originally Posted by password

Having owned a 2004 2.5 Z4 and a 2007 3.0i Z4 and driven an 08 Boxster, here are my personal impressions:

1. ...........The Porsche has unquestionably better handling, better ride (way more comfortable), better chassis and it looks really good with the right color combination, the Z4 wins in terms of price, standard features and maybe styling. At the end of the day I think of one wants to be honest with him/her self than it should be obvious the Boxster is the superior car, oh did I forget to mention its engine is in the middle just behind the driver.

[jalpert]

I have no clue which one is better. My husband has a Boxster S and he is in love with it. Personally, it just doesn't appeal to me. I mean, it is a great car but I love my Z4. If I couldn't decide which one, I'd drive both - one of them will speak to you.