Used Z4 Reliability Question....

[HEY32G]

Considering a Z4 3.0si (2006 to 2008) (<50,000 miles), but I'm concerned about the reliability. Is a CPO the answer or is that even worth it?

Also, considering an S2000, 370Z, or a Corvette (C5 Z06). Don't want to spend more than $25k.

I have had many sports cars, some more reliable than others. Lousy reliability really ruins the fun of ownership for me.

FYI, it would not be a daily driver, but would be driven frequently.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[Finnegan]

Define reliability from your perspective. Does it mean you don't have to replace suspension parts (bushings, dampers) at 40-50k? Or do you mean the engine and transmission will last 100-200k if properly maintained (full fluid flushes at a min of 50k)?

[Mtxzptlk]

Can't speak for reliability of the Z4 3.0si, but given the miles you're considering I'd go for an S2k followed by the 370z.

S2Ks are pretty reliable and low maintenance as a whole.

[chickdr]

Since no one has talked about the Z4 yet- the 06-08 si's are very reliable cars. That was the last few years and kinks had been worked out. The engines are bulletproof other than some lifter noise in some cars(not detrimental). Otherwise typical BMW- cooling systems need upkeep, etc. I wouldn't be concerned about a Z4 at all. Pick the car you like best out of the four you mentioned.

[HEY32G]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

Define reliability from your perspective. Does it mean you don't have to replace suspension parts (bushings, dampers) at 40-50k? Or do you mean the engine and transmission will last 100-200k if properly maintained (full fluid flushes at a min of 50k)?

Maintenance is not a problem. I understand that. When I talk about reliability I mean little problems that are costly to take care of. I had a Porsche 968, which I loved, but it constantly had small little, yet fairly expensive things cropping up. The last 4 months I owned it I spent $600/month on repairs. Off the top of my head I can't give any specific details on repairs. But I do remember one morning when it was raining I had the hood opened and I was banging on the windshield wiper motor to get it to start working, as my wife backed out, rolled down her window and said "Porsche, there is no substitute".

[beta]

Originally Posted by GH32335i

Considering a Z4 3.0si (2006 to 2008) (<50,000 miles), but I'm concerned about the reliability. Is a CPO the answer or is that even worth it?

I wouldn't even worry about CPO, these cars are fairly reliable. If you hang around this forum you'll see problems do come up, but most people have years of trouble-free driving.

Just make sure it has a perfect service history record (oil changes on time, break fluid flushes every couple of years, etc.), talk to the owner at length and get a pre-purchase inspection from a reputable independent shop. Don't skip the inspection, they usually find even small things that you can use to haggle the price, so it's always worth it (and can save you from a bad mistake).

Any reason why you are going for the 3.0 instead of the M? Not trying to start a war, just wondering.

[SCHMOUPE]

Originally Posted by GH32335i

Maintenance is not a problem. I understand that. When I talk about reliability I mean little problems that are costly to take care of. I had a Porsche 968, which I loved, but it constantly had small little, yet fairly expensive things cropping up. The last 4 months I owned it I spent $600/month on repairs. Off the top of my head I can't give any specific details on repairs. But I do remember one morning when it was raining I had the hood opened and I was banging on the windshield wiper motor to get it to start working, as my wife backed out, rolled down her window and said "Porsche, there is no substitute".

I think I found your problem. Violence is never the answer to car problems.

To answer your original question, these cars are reliable. Do the routine maintenance and you will be ok.

[Finnegan]

^WHS. Based on your definition, we're not seeing those nickel and dime problems, nor large issues either. Assuming the PPI checks out and car has maintenance records it's a reliable car.

[HEY32G]

Originally Posted by beta

Any reason why you are going for the 3.0 instead of the M? Not trying to start a war, just wondering.

Honestly, I would prefer the M, but it seems that the 3.0si is about $4k to $5k cheaper when comparing two with similar mileage. Purely a matter of cost.

[yousefnjr]

I would say they're reliable overall. This is my second Z, and the issues I've had on both combined are: starter, expansion tank, ignition switch, GM5 door lock control module, and the hydraulic soft top motor. This is over ~2 years of ownership. The first (2004 3.0 sport) I bought at 21k, the second (2006 z4mr) I picked up at 36k. The only issue I've had on the M was the ignition switch, everything else was with the 3.0.

Anecdotal maybe, but reliability for these cars seems to mirror my experience with the 3 series. The big difference is how much easier the Z is to work on for most things.

Do it!

[silverfishZ4M]

Originally Posted by GH32335i

Honestly, I would prefer the M, but it seems that the 3.0si is about $4k to $5k cheaper when comparing two with similar mileage. Purely a matter of cost.

The M would probably retain its value better, though.

[beta]

Originally Posted by GH32335i

Honestly, I would prefer the M, but it seems that the 3.0si is about $4k to $5k cheaper when comparing two with similar mileage. Purely a matter of cost.

If you're willing to travel and be patient, they do come up cheaper regularly usually because the owner has to unload the car fast for personal reasons. Also the closer we get to winter the cheaper they get.

If you get a chance drive both before deciding, especially if you are familiar with sports cars. They're both great cars but feel very different.

[TCZ4]

It really depends on what type of car you want. I've owned 2 S2000's - 2002 and 2006, and now have an 06 3.0 Si. The S2000's were VERY VERY reliable. Their engines are rock solid, and the maintenance is extremely easy to do yourself. The engine bay is very easy to work on and accessible. They have no torque. If you want a high revving crotch rocket like car to wring out at the track utilizing the full RPM spectrum then the S2000 is an excellent choice. The Z4 is also proving to be very reliable. That being said there are additional things to consider: Fancier electronics, over-engineered bits like fancy cupholders which are prone to break etc, and maintenance which is a bit more complicated than the S2000.

Between the different versions, I would have preferred the M, but needed an auto for my wife to drive the car, so the Si was the choice for me. That being said, the Si's engine is very good. Tons of torque, very smooth, and a linear power band. The auto trans is also quite impressive compared to others in these types of cars.

The M will give you the extra power and engineering to shine at the track if that is your desire. This car is a weekend cruiser for us, and fits the bill perfectly. Like the S2000 the Z4 (E85/E86) has very usable trunk space.

If you go the Z4 route, you WILL have to do more homework in looking into the history of the car you buy. Find a CPO or low mileage car that wasn't abused, and properly maintained. With S2000's this is less of an issue if you stay with cars below 70k miles.

The S2000 really really shines in the corners. I still long for that feeling. It is NOT replicated by the Z4. It is balanced, and has the perfect blend of "tossability" and power. Stop light acceleration sucks unless you really get the revs into the 5k range, which can get old if you are driving it around town. You don't want to be the dbag redlining your engine every stop light just to get ahead of traffic.

The Z4 is a more comfortable car. WAY nicer stereo, insulated top, heated seats, better quality leather and interior, torque, and name cachet if thats your thing.

The S2000 has very little insulation from noise, the engine is loud, in a place like texas the non insulated top can get hot (although the AC works very well), stereo really sucks and must be replaced for anything usable, no bluetooth (again fixed with a new head unit).

Drive both, pick which one you like better. As long as you maintain either car, you'll be fine. If I could have both I would... =)

[TCZ4]

Also wanted to add that I've followed the S2000 market quite extensively prior as I was thinking about a 3rd S2k before the Z4. The prices are considerably higher than what they used to be.

For example, I bought a 2006 S2k with 2k miles on it for $26k back in 2008. You'd be hard pressed to find good clean examples with 30k miles for less than 26k now. I wouldn't call them collectible but the used market has very healthy demand for clean low mileage cars.

There are plenty of used Z4 options on the market right now at all price points. If you are patient and willing to sift through the not so good ones, you can be rewarded. You can get very low mileage cars 06-08 for 25k and under. I'm talking about Si's, M's will run about 5k more.

[m3griff]

I bought an 06 3.0 si in 2008 as a CPO and have used it as a daily since. Now at 86k miles. The only issue I had was the sticky steering - which was covered under warranty. Maintenance has been oil and fluids and preventative cooling system work. Fantastic car.

Jeff

[Lark]

Originally Posted by m3griff

I bought an 06 3.0 si in 2008 as a CPO and have used it as a daily since. Now at 86k miles. The only issue I had was the sticky steering - which was covered under warranty. Maintenance has been oil and fluids and preventative cooling system work. Fantastic car.

Jeff

The sticky steering referred to is pre July 2006 builds. So make sure that the car you buy has either had the new steering column installed or is after July 2006 build date.

[HEY32G]

Originally Posted by TCZ4

It really depends on what type of car you want. I've owned 2 S2000's - 2002 and 2006, and now have an 06 3.0 Si. The S2000's were VERY VERY reliable. Their engines are rock solid, and the maintenance is extremely easy to do yourself. The engine bay is very easy to work on and accessible. They have no torque. If you want a high revving crotch rocket like car to wring out at the track utilizing the full RPM spectrum then the S2000 is an excellent choice. The Z4 is also proving to be very reliable. That being said there are additional things to consider: Fancier electronics, over-engineered bits like fancy cupholders which are prone to break etc, and maintenance which is a bit more complicated than the S2000.

Between the different versions, I would have preferred the M, but needed an auto for my wife to drive the car, so the Si was the choice for me. That being said, the Si's engine is very good. Tons of torque, very smooth, and a linear power band. The auto trans is also quite impressive compared to others in these types of cars.

The M will give you the extra power and engineering to shine at the track if that is your desire. This car is a weekend cruiser for us, and fits the bill perfectly. Like the S2000 the Z4 (E85/E86) has very usable trunk space.

If you go the Z4 route, you WILL have to do more homework in looking into the history of the car you buy. Find a CPO or low mileage car that wasn't abused, and properly maintained. With S2000's this is less of an issue if you stay with cars below 70k miles.

The S2000 really really shines in the corners. I still long for that feeling. It is NOT replicated by the Z4. It is balanced, and has the perfect blend of "tossability" and power. Stop light acceleration sucks unless you really get the revs into the 5k range, which can get old if you are driving it around town. You don't want to be the dbag redlining your engine every stop light just to get ahead of traffic.

The Z4 is a more comfortable car. WAY nicer stereo, insulated top, heated seats, better quality leather and interior, torque, and name cachet if thats your thing.

The S2000 has very little insulation from noise, the engine is loud, in a place like texas the non insulated top can get hot (although the AC works very well), stereo really sucks and must be replaced for anything usable, no bluetooth (again fixed with a new head unit).

Drive both, pick which one you like better. As long as you maintain either car, you'll be fine. If I could have both I would... =)

Thanks for taking the time to share this info. Great to hear your thoughts having had both cars.

I know the S2000 will be a bit more exciting because it's such a 4 wheel sport bike. I have two problems with it, though, and they both pertain to me. First of all I'm 6'5" so it's a pretty tight squeeze, and second, for some reason I see the Z4 as being a bit more mature. I'm in my late 40's and I don't want people thinking I'm driving my teenager's car - that's just me.

I have driven both cars, the S2000 a few more times than the Z4. I would have to get a manual Z4, and am hoping it will have some pretty good driving excitement as well. I really haven't been able to really get on it in a Z4 yet. The last one I drove was with a 22 yr old female salesperson who would not be quiet and would not stop fiddling with the stereo. Pretty much a wasted test drive! I have no idea why she thought the stereo was so important to me!

The idea of taking it to a track is very appealing and I have planned to do that with several sports cars I've had, but I just never do it. I just don't take the time. maybe someday I will.

As for the M, I would love it, but it just doesn't work as well money wise. I have driven one and loved it!! Even the salesman said he didn't realize the car was that capable. I have heard, and not to start a war here, that the 3.0si has more low end torque and is almost as much fun. The M needs to be wound out a bit more. The M also makes me a little nervous as to how much it has been abused.

Also, I had a 335i (thus my name on here) and loved the car. It was fantastic. But in the past my wife had a 325i and it was a nightmare reliability wise. I guess that's why I'm a bit skittish when it comes to used BMW's. I've had over 20 cars, pretty much all pure sports cars or very sporty cars, and honestly BMW's are my favorite.

I really do appreciate everyone's input. Can someone expand on the sticky steering problem? What is it and how much does it cost to fix?

Thanks all.

Don't forget to cheer for the Spurs tonight. They are a class act. Too bad Pop made some questionable decisions at the end of game 6.

[TCZ4]

The height thing can be an issue I think in either car. Maybe the S2k more than the Z4 because you cannot adjust the seat height or the steering column.

As for the "maturity" thing, I honestly don't think you should care much about that. The S2000 and Z4 are both fine sports cars that any age group would love to drive. Z4 does portray a bit more "sophistication" based on the nameplate though, and the fact it is a more upscale market car. $34k~ msrp vs. $50k~.

If you don't plan on driving a lot of miles, I think the total ownership cost is a pretty close wash. If you plan on owning the Z4 into the higher mileage bracket, the cost factor will sway towards the Honda. I've owned mine for about a year now, and other than standard maintenance: fluids, filters, etc; its run super smooth.

I was also on a test drive where the sales lady kept saying how wonderful the stereo was as well. I was saying to myself, please be quiet so I can hear the engine. In retrospect though the carver premier audio in the Si is worlds apart better than the crappy S2k stock system. I gutted both of my S2k's in favor of component upgrades. The Z4's Carver system is excellent as a stock system and also more difficult to upgrade. Also if modding is your thing there are very few mods available for the 3.0si models. The S2k has every option to your hearts content. I'd love to find a decently price exhaust system that isn't going to cost me thousands or is a magnaflow equivalent but they don't exist.

[HEY32G]

Originally Posted by TCZ4

The height thing can be an issue I think in either car. Maybe the S2k more than the Z4 because you cannot adjust the seat height or the steering column.

As for the "maturity" thing, I honestly don't think you should care much about that. The S2000 and Z4 are both fine sports cars that any age group would love to drive. Z4 does portray a bit more "sophistication" based on the nameplate though, and the fact it is a more upscale market car. $34k~ msrp vs. $50k~.

If you don't plan on driving a lot of miles, I think the total ownership cost is a pretty close wash. If you plan on owning the Z4 into the higher mileage bracket, the cost factor will sway towards the Honda. I've owned mine for about a year now, and other than standard maintenance: fluids, filters, etc; its run super smooth.

I was also on a test drive where the sales lady kept saying how wonderful the stereo was as well. I was saying to myself, please be quiet so I can hear the engine. In retrospect though the carver premier audio in the Si is worlds apart better than the crappy S2k stock system. I gutted both of my S2k's in favor of component upgrades. The Z4's Carver system is excellent as a stock system and also more difficult to upgrade. Also if modding is your thing there are very few mods available for the 3.0si models. The S2k has every option to your hearts content. I'd love to find a decently price exhaust system that isn't going to cost me thousands or is a magnaflow equivalent but they don't exist.

How would you compare the driving "excitement" between the two? The S2000 is just a hoot to drive. They're off the charts on the fun scale in my opinion. I grew up driving a go-kart and that's what they remind me of.

But the Z4 is just a beautiful car. Every time I see one, I just drool over it. The other day my wife and I got passed by one that was being driven like it was supposed to be driven. It had just rained heavily and it blew by us doing about 90 mph, kicking up water. A gorgeous sight.

[HEY32G]

Of course I say the M is too much and then I find this:

So is the M reliability as good as the si?

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?endYear=2008&zip=78006&seller Types=b&mmt=[BMW[Z4[]BMWROAD[]BMWMCOUPE[]][]]&modelCode1=Z4&makeCode2=BMW&modelCode2=BMWROAD&sh owcaseOwnerId=56335098&makeCode1=BMW&modelCode3=BM WMCOUPE&startYear=2006&firstRecord=26&makeCode3=BM W&searchRadius=300&listingId=348921170&listingInde x=3&Log=0

[chickdr]

Originally Posted by GH32335i

Of course I say the M is too much and then I find this:

So is the M reliability as good as the si?

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?endYear=2008&zip=78006&seller Types=b&mmt=[BMW[Z4[]BMWROAD[]BMWMCOUPE[]][]]&modelCode1=Z4&makeCode2=BMW&modelCode2=BMWROAD&sh owcaseOwnerId=56335098&makeCode1=BMW&modelCode3=BM WMCOUPE&startYear=2006&firstRecord=26&makeCode3=BM W&searchRadius=300&listingId=348921170&listingInde x=3&Log=0

That looks like a nice car for the price. I had a 2006 S2K for 3 yrs before my M. The S2K is a nice car but pretty weak power wise compared with either of the Z4's. I test drove an automatic Z4si and it was amazingly torquey compared to the S2K. Of course the BMW is heavier and less gocart like, but I like the Z4M better overall. You must drive all three and see what you like. I personally do not like the feel of the Z4 si's electric steering. The S2K's is fine in comparison. The M Roadster has a hydraulic rack and is excellent. That was the selling point of the M for me(in addition to the amazing S54 motor). There is more maintenance on the M as the motor needs valve adjustments(every 25K or so) but overall it isn't really any worse to keep up. A quick test drive in all three will give you your answer.

[beta]

Originally Posted by GH32335i

But the Z4 is just a beautiful car. Every time I see one, I just drool over it.

After having owned mine about 2 years, whenever I walk up to it I still think wow what a beautiful car. Future classic.

Originally Posted by GH32335i

Of course I say the M is too much and then I find this

Take it for a test drive!