ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   ZPOST > BMW Z4 Technical Talk > Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain Modifications
  TireRack

SUPPORT ZPOST BY DOING YOUR TIRERACK SHOPPING FROM THIS BANNER, THANKS!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-15-2014, 03:47 PM   #1
tiltmode43
I plead the 5th.
tiltmode43's Avatar
United_States
523
Rep
1,519
Posts

Drives: '18 Frontier Pro-4X, '06 Z4MR
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (10)

Oil Temp Gauge Maxes Out? [09/19 - PROBLEM SOLVED]

Recently my battery died out and seemingly killed the alternator as a result. Got the alternator rebuilt and first drive in the car afterwards, the oil temp gauge shot straight up to max after a few miles. No other warning lights or issues.

At this point, the oil leveling/temp sensor has been replaced, wiring inspected, and DME updated but the car still has the issue.

Any thoughts or ideas?
__________________
-Matt

| Z4M Build Thread | @violetnites | flickr |

Last edited by tiltmode43; 09-19-2016 at 11:48 AM..
Appreciate 0
      10-15-2014, 10:03 PM   #2
StickMon
My other car is on Mars
StickMon's Avatar
United_States
635
Rep
3,124
Posts

Drives: 2006 MR
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Lo-Cal

iTrader: (1)

Can you check the oil temp with INPA?
If it says it's a zillion, then it's a sensor or sensor wiring.
If it says 200 ish, then it's the instrument cluster.
__________________
Warning: May contain traces of nuts.
Appreciate 0
      10-17-2014, 12:37 PM   #3
tiltmode43
I plead the 5th.
tiltmode43's Avatar
United_States
523
Rep
1,519
Posts

Drives: '18 Frontier Pro-4X, '06 Z4MR
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by StickMon View Post
Can you check the oil temp with INPA?
If it says it's a zillion, then it's a sensor or sensor wiring.
If it says 200 ish, then it's the instrument cluster.
Yeah, really seems like a straight forward diagnosis. I'm wondering if the shop did this to determine my oil temp sensor was bad before replacing it or made the assumption based on other diagnosis. Thanks for the tip, we'll see what happens!
__________________
-Matt

| Z4M Build Thread | @violetnites | flickr |
Appreciate 0
      10-29-2014, 01:11 PM   #4
tiltmode43
I plead the 5th.
tiltmode43's Avatar
United_States
523
Rep
1,519
Posts

Drives: '18 Frontier Pro-4X, '06 Z4MR
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by StickMon View Post
Can you check the oil temp with INPA?
If it says it's a zillion, then it's a sensor or sensor wiring.
If it says 200 ish, then it's the instrument cluster.
Read the oil temp in-dash via test mode and sure enough, the digital readout shoots to max (255 Cel) when the physical gauge goes to max, so I'm thinking the physical gauge should be alright. Considering the shop replaced the sensor, I can't see it being that, unless I was unlucky enough to get a faulty sensor? I'd imagine that's very rare, though.

Any other ideas on this one? The shop told me they also had inspected the wiring as well and everything seemed alright.
__________________
-Matt

| Z4M Build Thread | @violetnites | flickr |
Appreciate 0
      10-29-2014, 02:13 PM   #5
Beedub
Major General
United Kingdom
423
Rep
5,327
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4 M roadster vt2-500
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiltmode43 View Post
Read the oil temp in-dash via test mode and sure enough, the digital readout shoots to max (255 Cel) when the physical gauge goes to max, so I'm thinking the physical gauge should be alright. Considering the shop replaced the sensor, I can't see it being that, unless I was unlucky enough to get a faulty sensor? I'd imagine that's very rare, though.

Any other ideas on this one? The shop told me they also had inspected the wiring as well and everything seemed alright.

surely that tell you its the sensor. I've had faulty new items numerous times or they we damaged on install, quite easy with tight to reach sensors. more than you'd believe anyway.
__________________
Z4MR VT2 - Clubsport build.
Multi award winning Detailing | Wrap | PPF specialists UK based - www.topwrapz.com
Appreciate 0
      10-29-2014, 06:12 PM   #6
tiltmode43
I plead the 5th.
tiltmode43's Avatar
United_States
523
Rep
1,519
Posts

Drives: '18 Frontier Pro-4X, '06 Z4MR
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beedub View Post
surely that tell you its the sensor. I've had faulty new items numerous times or they we damaged on install, quite easy with tight to reach sensors. more than you'd believe anyway.
One of my buddies who's a tech at Lexus said the same thing, said it happened to them with an airbag sensor. *Le Sigh* Only way to find this out would be draining oil, and replacing the sensor again, which is another ~$200. Once I hit 3-4k on this oil I'll cross my fingers and switch it out again, will prob update this thread at that time.

If anyone else has any ideas in the meantime, please share
__________________
-Matt

| Z4M Build Thread | @violetnites | flickr |
Appreciate 0
      10-29-2014, 06:28 PM   #7
Jroc
Lieutenant
13
Rep
415
Posts

Drives: Mcoupe
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: United States

iTrader: (0)

Tough luck
__________________
07 TiAG Coupe
@Jroc561
Appreciate 0
      10-30-2014, 03:37 AM   #8
Beedub
Major General
United Kingdom
423
Rep
5,327
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4 M roadster vt2-500
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

wheres the oil temp sensor? bummer that the oil needs to be drained and this is a common part to fail on these engines.
__________________
Z4MR VT2 - Clubsport build.
Multi award winning Detailing | Wrap | PPF specialists UK based - www.topwrapz.com
Appreciate 0
      11-02-2014, 02:54 PM   #9
tiltmode43
I plead the 5th.
tiltmode43's Avatar
United_States
523
Rep
1,519
Posts

Drives: '18 Frontier Pro-4X, '06 Z4MR
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beedub View Post
wheres the oil temp sensor? bummer that the oil needs to be drained and this is a common part to fail on these engines.
It looks like it's located at the bottom of the pan but I haven't checked it out myself. If that's the case, it's really not too bad. #14 below:



Did some more research and found this info on another forum regarding S54 oil level/temp sensor, and how it determines the oil temp. Thought it was interesting, so adding to this thread in case anyone comes across it in time to come.

Quote:
As far as I remember, that sensor works like a MAF; electricity passes through it which heats the element. The oil tries to cool it; then the computer calculates the temp difference and converts it to oil level (the more you dip it in oil, the cooler it will be, if the oil is low then less cooling). The computer knows what the temp is supposed to be if there was not any oil and the temp of the oil as the sensor is dipped into it. Hope this makes sense to you.
Also found this interesting:

Quote:
yes that is correct, also worth noting that if you carry out an oil change and leave the ign switched on you are in danger of burning out the level sensor
__________________
-Matt

| Z4M Build Thread | @violetnites | flickr |
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2015, 10:09 AM   #10
Reborn_
Lieutenant
292
Rep
408
Posts

Drives: 2007 BMW Z4MC
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (7)

Did that fix the issue?
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2015, 03:07 PM   #11
Westersund
Captain
Westersund's Avatar
Sweden
478
Rep
859
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hallstahammar

iTrader: (1)

Check the connectors, if there is corrotion you can get the wrong values. Had that in my E34 M5 and it read -37 degrees celsius (outside temp) in the middle of summer. If the connectors look fine the wiring at the connector might be faulty which can get you the same fault. New stumps of wire with new connectors can be bought at your dealer.
Appreciate 0
      09-13-2016, 11:41 AM   #12
tiltmode43
I plead the 5th.
tiltmode43's Avatar
United_States
523
Rep
1,519
Posts

Drives: '18 Frontier Pro-4X, '06 Z4MR
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reborn_ View Post
Did that fix the issue?
Negative.

2 Years later, I still haven't actually fixed this issue (and sadly haven't driven the car a whole lot for a few reasons). However smog is (past) due and I need to sort this. These were the steps I had taken up to today:

-Replaced the oil temp/level sensor twice (thought it could have been a bad sensor first time around)

-Checked under hood fuses

-Checked wires

-Checked the physical gauge dial itself (Put the dash in diagnostic mode to read the actual temp on the LCD screen, which also went to max at same time the dial swept to max - the dial seems to be working in accordance with the data it's provided)

I racked my brain around the symptoms again:

-Oil temp gauge reads correct when the engine is off, but ignition turned to ON. In other words, I can run the car for an hour, turn it off, then turn key to ON, and the temp gauge will go to the correct location

-Oil temp gauge reads correct when vehicle is at idle but as the RPM's increases, the temp gauge will then go to max. It will not come back down afterwards until vehicle is shut off.

-SES codes:
2E9F oil condition sensor
2EA1 oil condition sensor, communication

-NO other symptoms or issues with the vehicle at this time. Everything runs beautifully, no overheating, no warning lights, nothing. My alternator is charging at 14.1-14.2V under load, no issues with any accessories.

-This issue started occurring immediately after I had my alternator replaced. At the time the shop didn't think it could be related and had advised I take the car to the stealership. I didn't question this much - the alternator seemed to be doing it's job and there were no other malfunctions. In some searching, I came across this thread -> http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1246045 where forum member rmousir was having different issues after replacing the alternator, but also related to the oil condition sensor. Punisher3.0si came in and made the following posts:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher3.0si View Post
So I looked into it and believe it or not you might have a bad alternator. The oil level sensor and alternator are tied in to each other through the network.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher3.0si View Post
Yeah I know I read what you wrote. Just because it's new that doesn't mean it's good. I've learned that lesson the hard way lol. The Alternator and oil level sensor both communicate on the BSD network. This allows the alternator to have smart charging capabilities. The fact that the oil level sensor was previously working and now it doesn't after the alternator was replaced tells me that the problem is probably in that area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher3.0si View Post


That's what the schematic looks like. They are spliced together on the same wire for the network.
I was surprised what I saw in that diagram - the oil sensor and alternator are literally the only 2 things in this circuit!



I've just ordered an alternator for under $300 shipped and will have it by this weekend. I'll be replacing it by following this Pelican Parts DIY -> http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...eplacement.htm with hopes that this somehow fixes this issue. It feels kind of silly to be purchasing an alternator to try and fix this (considering mine is 'functioning' okay), but I'm not sure where else to go from here. If anyone has any ideas please let me know, otherwise I'll update this thread after the weekend passes.

This is an idea, don't know if it makes sense from an electrical point of view but this isn't exactly my field The Z4M alternator is rated at 150 Amps. I believe the non-M alternator is rated at 155 Amps. Does anyone know if the alternators are physically interchangeable? If so, I wonder if the shop could have installed a non-M alternator into my vehicle with a rating of 155 Amps? Maybe when the alternator is pushing more as the RPM's climb, those extra 5 amps trip up the oil sensor? I'd imagine the amperage is regulated by the DME but considering this sensor is directly on the same circuit, maybe it's an exception. This is my theory, we'll see what happens!
__________________
-Matt

| Z4M Build Thread | @violetnites | flickr |
Appreciate 0
      09-13-2016, 11:39 PM   #13
Vanne
Down Under!!
Vanne's Avatar
United Arab Emirates
1593
Rep
4,293
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4MC
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Dubai

iTrader: (4)

Hey bud, are you sure the wires are not hooked up back the front on the sensor? Is that possible? Or is it socketed? I can believe 1 sensor being bad, even 2 maybe, but 3???? There has to be something else at Play.. what's the alternator putting out? How's your hot Batt bus voltage? Any other strange issues? Can you check the voltage on the bus, the voltage the alt is putting out seems correct.
Appreciate 0
      09-14-2016, 10:19 AM   #14
Reborn_
Lieutenant
292
Rep
408
Posts

Drives: 2007 BMW Z4MC
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (7)

The fact that the sensor works correctly with engine off but incorrectly with engine on (different alternator loads) also suggests the alternator as the culprit. Good luck and report back!
Appreciate 1
      09-19-2016, 10:20 AM   #15
tiltmode43
I plead the 5th.
tiltmode43's Avatar
United_States
523
Rep
1,519
Posts

Drives: '18 Frontier Pro-4X, '06 Z4MR
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (10)

SUCCESS!

Replaced the alternator yesterday and voila, my oil temp gauge no longer goes to max!

The stickers on my old alternator did show it was the proper 150 amp unit intended for the M so not exactly sure what was wrong with it. I still find it so odd that it was pumping out a consistent 14.1-2 volts as it should have yet would trip up the gauge. In either case, I'm just glad this gremlin is no longer around.
__________________
-Matt

| Z4M Build Thread | @violetnites | flickr |
Appreciate 2
inTgr8r2421.50
StickMon635.00
      09-19-2016, 10:47 AM   #16
inTgr8r
Lieutenant General
inTgr8r's Avatar
Canada
2422
Rep
11,665
Posts

Drives: M2 Comp
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (10)

great stuff Matt, glad to hear you got it sorted!
and thanks for assembling the other old posts in this thread for future reference.
__________________
'21 M2C Hockenheim Silver
'18 718 Cayman S Lava Orange (sold)
'13 E92 M3 Santorini Blue (sold)
'07 Z4 M Coupe Alpine White (sold)
Appreciate 1
      09-19-2016, 12:17 PM   #17
tiltmode43
I plead the 5th.
tiltmode43's Avatar
United_States
523
Rep
1,519
Posts

Drives: '18 Frontier Pro-4X, '06 Z4MR
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by inTgr8r View Post
great stuff Matt, glad to hear you got it sorted!
and thanks for assembling the other old posts in this thread for future reference.
Ah me too, definitely a relief to have this one taken care of.

If somebody, somewhere, some day has the same symptoms hopefully they will stumble across this thread and realize the alternator and temperature gauge are uniquely linked, potentially saving them time/headache/$$$!
__________________
-Matt

| Z4M Build Thread | @violetnites | flickr |
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2016, 11:04 AM   #18
Vanne
Down Under!!
Vanne's Avatar
United Arab Emirates
1593
Rep
4,293
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4MC
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Dubai

iTrader: (4)

Great stuff Matt, so glad you got this sorted mate, maybe the voltage was the same, but the amperage was different?
Either way, great news
__________________
2007 EuroSpec Z4///MC - Building/Developing Z4 GT3
Powered by
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2016, 10:05 PM   #19
dc_wright
Captain
dc_wright's Avatar
249
Rep
758
Posts

Drives: 2006 Z43.0si Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Orlando, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanne View Post
Great stuff Matt, so glad you got this sorted mate, maybe the voltage was the same, but the amperage was different?
Either way, great news
Sounds like the BSD data interface on the alternator was bad, and the data from the oil sensor was never making it to the instrument cluster once the alternator started transmitting its data.
__________________
Top Down 365
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:10 PM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST