z4mc's weight

[ZM4000]

answer to all this thread and news to all this thread

[AWM3]

Originally Posted by erhanh

There are couple areas that BMW could do a lot better with Z4 M. Lighter exhaust, lighter battery, lighter seats would easly cut 100-150lb of fat. 1000$ RPI exhaust is significantly lighter than stock system. 900$ Recaro seats are ~40lbs/each lighter than stocks.. The Coupe could have used a carbon-fiber roof.. But unfortunatelly BMW didn't want to spend too much time developing this car nor they spend too much time on details.

It is not all that fair to compare Z4M to S2000. Bigger engine weighs more, but not only that, it also requires more oil, bigger radiator etc.. Also more power means you can have bigger wheels & tires. And again, you need more breaking power due to more power. All this add up. Also a metal roof and huge glass on the hatch adds up significant weight too.. I don't know how S2000 and Z4 have similar dimensions though. S2000's cabin is a lot smaller than Z4's.

Although, comparing Cayman or 911 to Z4 M is fair. Porsche is doing a magnificent job. With every new generation they find a way to keep the weight same as the older gen. BMW on the other hand adds up several hundred pounds with every new generation. Good for BMW, bad for people like us, but the BMW we knew is gone. They're now making big, luxury cars and trucks. They're expanding their model range with bigger and heavier "GT" cars and uber-fast SUVs. But there is no true sports car coming from them... So long BMW.

My next car, if I ever decide to move on from my Z4 MC, would be a porsche.. Sad, but BMW does not have a single car in their current line up that I'd consider buying.

In general I agree with your sentiments and you get no argument from me. But perhaps you shouldn't be quite so harsh on the current 3 series. My 335i has acceleration similar to the Z4M, has a nice back seat and a nice trunk, and gets 26 MPG in mixed highway/city driving. So even though it weighs 3600 lbs it accelerates well, handles decently, and is very practical.

[Eccentric]

BMWs are getting too fat in general. The 3 series should be 1series sized, and the 5 series should get smaller as well. Pretty soon the only fun bimmers will be M models. I truly hope BMW wakes up and realizes that the F10 5 series is too big, and car mags aren't having fun driving it (at least that's what I've read). Wake up, BMW! If I wanted a luxo-cruiser, I would have gotten a merc or Lexus. The E30 was fun to drive, regardless if it was an M or not. I truly believe that BMW has forgotten it's core mission to make fun cars for all people.

[thekurgan]

Originally Posted by ZM4000

Sorry to say but you're wrong the coupe isnt twice stiffer as the roadster. talked to my bmw dealer about that point when i was looking for a z4m. He told me that BMW engineers (and all big carbrands) put extra calculated weights in the car(roadster) to loose that wooliness because of not having a roof so that the car gets a lot stiffer.

You're killing me ...

[thekurgan]

Originally Posted by hansaysso

Another thing a lot of you are forgetting is built in safety systems.

Also to note, a lot of japanese car manufacturers to shed extra weight use ultra thin metal to make most of the body panels. This is especially true on the s2000 (you can find articles about this), the thing attracts dings like no other (this is with personal experience btw...) don't get me wrong, a boot kick will dent in BMW body panels, but i rarely catch as many rock dings in the M Couper as i did in my old s2000 or RX7.

Completely agree. What happened to Mousitch recently is an example, if that were an S2000 or 3[5|7]0Z, I hate to think what could have happend....

[45ACP]

Originally Posted by Eccentric

BMWs are getting too fat in general. The 3 series should be 1series sized, and the 5 series should get smaller as well. Pretty soon the only fun bimmers will be M models. I truly hope BMW wakes up and realizes that the F10 5 series is too big, and car mags aren't having fun driving it (at least that's what I've read). Wake up, BMW!

BMW will never downsize the current model lineup since the competition keeps growing bigger. For example, is the customer supposed to cross shop the 5-series against the A4, G37, C-class? The future of sports sedans won't be like the go-karts they started out as 25 years ago since most consumers snub their noses at manual transmissions and firm sports suspensions in favor for a cushy, luxurious ride with a sporty appearance. BMW is catering to the marketplace as any sensible business would do.

[r4gs]

Originally Posted by ZM4000

Sorry to say but you're wrong the coupe isnt twice stiffer as the roadster. talked to my bmw dealer about that point when i was looking for a z4m. He told me that BMW engineers (and all big carbrands) put extra calculated weights in the car(roadster) to loose that wooliness because of not having a roof so that the car gets a lot stiffer.

zm4000, no hard feelings though, but typically hard-roofed coupes are stiffer than their respective soft-top roadster counterparts. just a matter of my original analogy - 2 pieces of conjoined metal versus 1 single piece.

perhaps the new hardtop e89s are as stiff as the e86 coupes? i know they definitely weigh more though.

[Eccentric]

You're 100% right. I just think that the e39 had plenty of room and was sporty too, and in order for BMW to become an industry leader again they need to do radical things. If they priced the 3er with the g37 and made it smaller I think people would still buy it bc it would be more luxurious and faster than the g series. And if the 5 series got smaller and less expensive I think people would trade in the extra leg room for their children for a smaller, more enjoyable car that has better brand association. I would anyway... But then again I bought a Moupe, so I'm in the minority of BMW owners.

[ZM4000]

i know it's stiffer but not twice as stiff imo thats my point

[graider]

the problem is would a 3 series (the size of the 1 series) sell in today market consider the competition are larger, safer, offer more comfort, etc.

enthusiast only make up 5% of the market and bmw have to cater to the general public to sell more cars.

look at the sell number of z06/gt3 and you will have an idea of what will happen if you focus your car to please the enthusiast. the end result is you will end up selling a few thousands cars a year at most. that will put bmw in bankruptcy.

but i agree, bmw can continue making car that please the general public, but they should also come out with hardcored limited edition to build up their reputation and please the enthusiasts.

anyway, i don't believe the boxter is stiffer than the z4m coupe. no way a vert is stiffer no matter how you slide it or want to believe.

[ebruder]

Originally Posted by erhanh

Sad, but BMW does not have a single car in their current line up that I'd consider buying.

That is why I am buying my 2007 MCoupe off of lease in 3 weeks.

I told the saleswoman (sharp as hell, BTW) that if BMW hadn't discontinued my car in mid-2008, she would have had a new car sale. As it turns out, I only have 21,000 miles on the car, and it is in excellent condition. On top of that, the purchase price is excellent (significantly under residual), so I am saving myself significant dollars, and I really do enjoy what I am driving. The lack of a Z4 coupe, and M, and the increased size of the new Z4 just don't appeal to me.

I do, however, know a Z4 3.5 owner who crazy about the new car after coming from a Z3M convert.

EB

[esqu1re]

Originally Posted by erhanh

There are couple areas that BMW could do a lot better with Z4 M. Lighter exhaust, lighter battery, lighter seats would easly cut 100-150lb of fat. 1000$ RPI exhaust is significantly lighter than stock system. 900$ Recaro seats are ~40lbs/each lighter than stocks.. The Coupe could have used a carbon-fiber roof.. But unfortunatelly BMW didn't want to spend too much time developing this car nor they spend too much time on details.

It is not all that fair to compare Z4M to S2000. Bigger engine weighs more, but not only that, it also requires more oil, bigger radiator etc.. Also more power means you can have bigger wheels & tires. And again, you need more breaking power due to more power. All this add up. Also a metal roof and huge glass on the hatch adds up significant weight too.. I don't know how S2000 and Z4 have similar dimensions though. S2000's cabin is a lot smaller than Z4's.

That makes sense. The z4m is a much more luxurious car and those seats and extra glass and other bits all add up. I would love to take off 100 lbs from the MC, and it looks like aftermarket seats are the easiest way to do that without making it look like a stripped out car.

The S2000's cabin is more cramped, but I think there may be more trunk space and empty room in front of the engine. The hood is just as long as the z4's and it's only got an I-4 up there.

Thanks for everyone's input. I'm beginning to see why such a little (dimensionally) car weighs so much.

[chickdr]

Originally Posted by ZM4000

i know it's stiffer but not twice as stiff imo thats my point

Actually:

BMW Z4: 14,500 Nm/deg
BMW Z4 M Coupe : 32,000 Nm/deg

It is more than twice as stiff....

[Eccentric]

I think a 1er sized 3 series could please all crowds. It's safe, small, has 4 seats and a 300hp engine option. I honestly believe that if it had 3 badge rather than a 1, more people would buy it. Right now though the 3 series offers everything the 1 series does for an additional
amount of money so small that people just end up getting the 3. Idk if you guys ever sat in the back of a current 3er but it's no stretch to say that it's comfortable.. Even in a coupe

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by graider

but i agree, bmw can continue making car that please the general public, but they should also come out with hardcored limited edition to build up their reputation and please the enthusiasts.

The problem is, when they do make a hardcore car, they price it "hardcore". Look at the M3 GTS... I don't remember its exact price but I think it was something like 150-170k$. Given the normal M3 is 60k$, that is a retarded pricing. Why would I even buy a BMW for that much money? It is GT3 RS money

I wish BMW make their cars more "configurable". So at least if I were to buy brand new, I could get rid off many features. Quite honestly, I wouldn't even get power windows for my Z4 M. But than that's kinda against the M philosophy. The M car should be comfortable enough to be daily driven, but then fast enough to be tracked. I think at this point, BMW is no longer able to make any more M cars. And when they attempt to reduce the weight as in M3 GTS, the price becomes ridiculous...

[graider]

the GTS is a bad example.

csl is more of what i'm reffering to. 3100lbs and cost about 25k more than the standard m3. looks better than the gts as well for good measure.

Originally Posted by erhanh

The problem is, when they do make a hardcore car, they price it "hardcore". Look at the M3 GTS... I don't remember its exact price but I think it was something like 150-170k$. Given the normal M3 is 60k$, that is a retarded pricing. Why would I even buy a BMW for that much money? It is GT3 RS money

I wish BMW make their cars more "configurable". So at least if I were to buy brand new, I could get rid off many features. Quite honestly, I wouldn't even get power windows for my Z4 M. But than that's kinda against the M philosophy. The M car should be comfortable enough to be daily driven, but then fast enough to be tracked. I think at this point, BMW is no longer able to make any more M cars. And when they attempt to reduce the weight as in M3 GTS, the price becomes ridiculous...

[r4gs]

as far as i can remember, i've never thought of bmw as an automobile manufacturer to go for when considering a proper sports car. it was always among the frontrunners for luxury, sports-styled sedans, and more recently, four-seater coupes. i agree the pricing on the 1-series sets it up for lower volume of sales compared with the only slightly more expensive 3-series, yet its styling really doesn't help either.

there's a reason mercedes has an sls, and formerly the slr, audi has the r8 in v8 and v10 trims, and bmw has...um...zilch.

[esqu1re]

Originally Posted by r4gs

as far as i can remember, i've never thought of bmw as an automobile manufacturer to go for when considering a proper sports car. it was always among the frontrunners for luxury, sports-styled sedans, and more recently, four-seater coupes. i agree the pricing on the 1-series sets it up for lower volume of sales compared with the only slightly more expensive 3-series, yet its styling really doesn't help either.

there's a reason mercedes has an sls, and formerly the slr, audi has the r8 in v8 and v10 trims, and bmw has...um...zilch.

I agree w/ you. They're a car company that happens to make some sports cars, if you can call their current lineup of sporty 2 door cars (the z4, m3 and m6, etc) sports cars. Of course, I don't want to get into a debate about vernacular, but I do wish BMW would come out with a real, designed-from-the-ground-up, sports car---something that doesn't have a plebeian 200 hp twin brother.

M1, please.

[JCz04Bimmer]

The E92 M3's that are currently competing in the GT class of ALMS with factory support are quite competitive in a field filled with Ferrari F430 GT's, Porsche GT3 RSR's, Corvette C5.R's and Ford GT-R's. So I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss BMW's ability to compete with the very best of the best.

And you better believe that the folks that were previously working on the Formula 1 effort are quite involved in that car's development. I would have to assume, that will continue to transfer over to the customer-bought M cars BMW produces. Now if they'd stop producing M cars with that other terrible letter in the badge... X.

[Serious]

Originally Posted by r4gs

as far as i can remember, i've never thought of bmw as an automobile manufacturer to go for when considering a proper sports car. it was always among the frontrunners for luxury, sports-styled sedans, and more recently, four-seater coupes. i agree the pricing on the 1-series sets it up for lower volume of sales compared with the only slightly more expensive 3-series, yet its styling really doesn't help either.

there's a reason mercedes has an sls, and formerly the slr, audi has the r8 in v8 and v10 trims, and bmw has...um...zilch.

And yet neither of those companies have put a significant dent in m3 & m5 sales in 25 years.

BMW has never done halo cars, even the m1 was designed by someone else. Bmw prefers to put their best engineers and designers on projects like the m3 & m5, because that's where the real money is in sports cars.

Originally Posted by JCz04Bimmer

The E92 M3's that are currently competing in the GT class of ALMS with factory support are quite competitive in a field filled with Ferrari F430 GT's, Porsche GT3 RSR's, Corvette C5.R's and Ford GT-R's. So I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss BMW's ability to compete with the very best of the best.

And you better believe that the folks that were previously working on the Formula 1 effort are quite involved in that car's development. I would have to assume, that will continue to transfer over to the customer-bought M cars BMW produces. Now if they'd stop producing M cars with that other terrible letter in the badge... X.

To be fair the ex-f1 designers didn't get involved with the RLR ALMS m3's until they were already competing and BMW wanted to send some similar cars to le mans & nring 24 hours, and eventually based DTM cars off the RLR M3's.

[r4gs]

i'd no intention of drawing this thread's focus on the m coupe's weight away, but pretty neat discussion here!

shouldn't detract from the near unanimous agreement that the m coupe's are heavy platforms and could use with a nice diet ala csl.

[Crimson92]

I'm really liking the conversations here. Looks like us z4 guys know what we are talking about.

On to the M coupe/roady, i wish bmw had spend a little more time developing it, insteading of pulling from the m3 parts bin.

A smg trans would of been nice, not for me but nice.
CF roof
A M body, much like the m3 looks rather different compare to the 3 series.

Our z4s arent much different than a regular z4. Not that its a bad thing i just feel that they didnt want to do anything about it.