Buying a ten year old car?

[F87LUV]

Hi all,

I'm looking into buying a Z4MC. I've been pining over them since...well 2006. Lol. The low mile ones are well into the $30,000 range. I've found a handful that are in my budget but the miles are no less than 70,000. My concern is the car falling apart and needing basically everything replaced. This would also be my first manual car. Am I setting myself up for failure and aggrevation? I know there are a lot of you that got these cars when they were new. What's your experience as these cars age?

[XMetal]

I would suggest you look into a Z4C instead of an MC as those are lower maintenance. The S54 on the MC is somewhat finicky and you need to keep on top of things.

[StickMon]

Bought mine when it was 5 years old with 40,000 miles.
Now 10 years old and 135,000.
XMetal is correct. What I've learned over the last 5 years is there's probably 3 options with an ///M:
1) Get CPO with a kick-a$$ extended warranty
2) Find a really good mechanic that's very familiar with the S54, and put one of his kids though college
3) Buy a lot of tools, keep your weekends free, and hang out in this forum

But, you wouldn't be setting yourself up for failure and aggravation.
You'd be setting yourself up for one heck of a fun ride.

[Westersund]

If it's going to be your only car I'd agree with XMetal, maybe, but if it will be a second car of yours I'd say go for a Z4 M Coupe. You'll regret going for a regular Z4 Coupe. No matter what car you buy maintenance parts will have to be replaced sooner or later. That includes everything from brakes, bushes, wishbones etc. There's no getting away from that. Are all parts a little more expensive for the M Coupe than a regular Coupe? Yes, but if that's your concern even before buying the car you might not be in the best financial situation to buy another car from the get go.

Except from that I'd like to say that the "problems" with the S54 are highly exaggerated on the internet forums, there's plenty of high milage ones that are still going strong only with regular maintenance (oil change and valve adjustment).

Happy Z4 M Coupe hunting! A great one will eventually show up.

[F87LUV]

Originally Posted by XMetal

I would suggest you look into a Z4C instead of an MC as those are lower maintenance. The S54 on the MC is somewhat finicky and you need to keep on top of things.

But...

[F87LUV]

Originally Posted by StickMon

Bought mine when it was 5 years old with 40,000 miles.
Now 10 years old and 135,000.
XMetal is correct. What I've learned over the last 5 years is there's probably 3 options with an ///M:
1) Get CPO with a kick-a$$ extended warranty
2) Find a really good mechanic that's very familiar with the S54, and put one of his kids though college
3) Buy a lot of tools, keep your weekends free, and hang out in this forum

But, you wouldn't be setting yourself up for failure and aggravation.
You'd be setting yourself up for one heck of a fun ride.

I think in this case cpo makes sense for someone like me. I don't intend on learning how to be a mechanic. I've seen a couple with existing warranties.

[EMP07]

Originally Posted by ZGirl07

But...

It is 10 years old... expect some maintenance, but M is a better experience.

Get what you want and live a happier life going faster

[F87LUV]

Originally Posted by Westersund

If it's going to be your only car I'd agree with XMetal, maybe, but if it will be a second car of yours I'd say go for a Z4 M Coupe. You'll regret going for a regular Z4 Coupe. No matter what car you buy maintenance parts will have to be replaced sooner or later. That includes everything from brakes, bushes, wishbones etc. There's no getting away from that. Are all parts a little more expensive for the M Coupe than a regular Coupe? Yes, but if that's your concern even before buying the car you might not be in the best financial situation to buy another car from the get go.

Except from that I'd like to say that the "problems" with the S54 are highly exaggerated on the internet forums, there's plenty of high milage ones that are still going strong only with regular maintenance (oil change and valve adjustment).

Happy Z4 M Coupe hunting! A great one will eventually show up.

I don't necessarily need to drive everyday but I see your point. Most of the cars I've had have been other people's "weekend cars". For me, it's worth driving a fun car even if some there's the occasional inconvenience. I just don't want to end up spending a small fortune every other month on repairs.

[Vanne]

just all depends on how well maintained you wanna drive.

if your wallet can hack it, go for the M (or if you have a mech apt minded BF/GF/partner )

Enjoy your search for the right car

[doccyber]

I had a 07 Z4M Coup for 8 years with close to 60k on the odometer. I bought it new and drove it as an every day driver and finally traded it in for my current M235. Great car with adequate power and solid handling. Got lots of thumbs ups and compliments from lots of folks. Too bad none of them offered to pay the maintenance costs once the free service and the warranty ran out. During my life with this car non warranty items included replacing the coils, power steering hose, battery, starter that all happened right after 5 years and between 40 to 55 k miles!! It was due for a major service requiring cam adjustment costing close to 2k!! This was the final push for me to get rid of the car. I miss driving it but don't miss the $$$ required for the upkeep

[SaltyNC]

Originally Posted by ZGirl07

I don't necessarily need to drive everyday but I see your point. Most of the cars I've had have been other people's "weekend cars". For me, it's worth driving a fun car even if some there's the occasional inconvenience. I just don't want to end up spending a small fortune every other month on repairs.

ZGirl,

I bought a Z4MR with 30K. I knew the heritage of the S54 engine, the last and probably best example of old school ///M engineering, but I did not know about its design flaws, and it has some. These can be fixed, but at a cost. If you can find a forum member's M Coupe, often times they will have already addressed these issues and you will get them at a discount.

So, just a few items to consider:

1. Inspection I and II

These are required intensive maintenance periods. Often times a 70K MC being sold will need Inspection II done soon. The same goes for a 30K MC needing Inspection I. If these have been done, it will save you $1000+. These never really end. You'll need to keep repeating Inspection I and II about every 30K-40K miles or so.

2. Sometimes, but not always, part of Inspection I and II includes valve adjustments. The S54 uses mechanical valves that require shims. This needs to be done around every 30,000 miles.

3. The dreaded vanos issues - this is a serious design flaw. It's a bear to do the work. There are good replacement systems out there, though. Bolts can shear off. Metal tabs on an internal hub can (will) eventually fail and if they make it into the engine, kaboom, you're done. There are other parts of the vanos that are weak, as well. Basically, all of us will eventually have to beef up our vanos or risk the possibility of catastrophic engine failure.

4. Bearings - Bearings wear in the S54. There are treated bearings that seem to reduce wear, but on a 70K mile MC, you probably need to have the bearings replaced before you reach 100K. An oil analysis with high lead content will offer a clue as to when it needs to be done.

5. Engine mounts bolts - hopefully these have already been replaced with stronger bolts. If not, they can snap. Many of us do it when we replace the engine mounts for stiffer engine mounts that improve the shifting characteristics of the car.

6. Fluids - You need to change the fluids in the car more often. 10W60 is expensive oil. Even from discount sites, you're looking at nearly $100 for just the oil and filter every 7500 miles or so. I think I paid $85. Brake/clutch fluid needs to be replaced regularly. Transmission fluid needs to be changed. The differential fluid needs to be changed. Coolant needs to be replaced. These are higher interval, but still need to be done.

7. Bushings and suspension - unless already done, various bushings will probably need to be replaced with the drivetrain and suspension. Shocks and springs may need to be replaced. Rear springs break with some regularity.

8. Paint / clear protection - depending on what your roads are like, the Z4MC will take some hits to the front bumper and side skirts from rocks and debris. Many of us have or will re-spray these areas. Some of us will put clear protection on these areas. It's a low riding car.

9. Water pump - This is an area that is probably overblown, but the water pump and radiator have some plastic parts. Some like to replace the water pump at around 70K miles as cheap insurance against catastrophic failure.

This engine sounds different than most. The engine taps, the vanos whirls and whines and rattles (but not too much or its a problem ). The dual mass flywheel can clunk. Turn off the engine without depressing the clutch, and it will shudder. We generally like these unique things about the car, but if you don't know they are supposed to make these noises, it can be concerning, so just know that some noise is completely normal.

With all that said, this is without question the most fun car I've ever owned. After driving this car for about a week and then getting in another car, you will think the other car's steering is failing. One of our other cars is a MINI, and even it feels like slop after driving my Z4MR. I love the feedback this car provides and the direct steering. The high revving acceleration is intoxicating. I almost always look back over my shoulder at the car when I park it. It's one of those special cars that don't come along very often. I think they are a bargain at current prices, and the maintenance costs well worth the experience.

This week has been in the 70's and sunny. We had 70's in December this year in North Carolina. I know you're going for an MC, but wow, it has been awesome with the top down. It's been a very long time since I've owned a car where I want to "go for a drive" just for the sake of driving. The Z4M is that kind of car.

If you enter ownership knowing what to expect, and it fits your budget, I think you will be very happy with the decision. I hope this information has been helpful. Good luck with your decision.

Salty

[Westersund]

Originally Posted by ZGirl07

I don't necessarily need to drive everyday but I see your point. Most of the cars I've had have been other people's "weekend cars". For me, it's worth driving a fun car even if some there's the occasional inconvenience. I just don't want to end up spending a small fortune every other month on repairs.

They are quality cars, but as with any car they have their weak point. But to answer your concern about spending a small fortune every other month? Don't worry about that, however you should always have a backup in case something breaks. As with any car that are expensive to buy new.

Basically there's 2 possible major money pits (not as common as you think reading the forums) and those are either the VANOS or the rod bearings, the other stuff are either minor problems that are easy DIY's (engine mount bolts, Constant Pressure Valve, rear sway bar bolts comming lose and a leaking hose to the VANOS) or common maintenance (brakes, clutch, control arms, bushes and service). Don't let yourself to be scared off getting a Z4 M Coupe because of the forums!

You won't regret buying one.

[F87LUV]

SaltyNC Wow. Thank you for such an informative post! I will make sure I look into everything you mentioned as I'm searching for the ZMC. Currently, I have a deposit on an M2 which would save me a lot of work but in the rare event that I see a coupe on the road, I'm always in . I'm sure the M2 will be nice but it's no Z coupe!

[inTgr8r]

M2 ? Sounds like you'll have tons of fun either way.

[F87LUV]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

M2 ? Sounds like you'll have tons of fun either way.

Haha. Maybe but I'm not 100% in love like I am with the ZMC.

[SDCoupe]

Originally Posted by SaltyNC

ZGirl,

I bought a Z4MR with 30K. I knew the heritage of the S54 engine, the last and probably best example of old school ///M engineering, but I did not know about its design flaws, and it has some. These can be fixed, but at a cost. If you can find a forum member's M Coupe, often times they will have already addressed these issues and you will get them at a discount.

So, just a few items to consider:

1. Inspection I and II

These are required intensive maintenance periods. Often times a 70K MC being sold will need Inspection II done soon. The same goes for a 30K MC needing Inspection I. If these have been done, it will save you $1000+. These never really end. You'll need to keep repeating Inspection I and II about every 30K-40K miles or so.

2. Sometimes, but not always, part of Inspection I and II includes valve adjustments. The S54 uses mechanical valves that require shims. This needs to be done around every 30,000 miles.

3. The dreaded vanos issues - this is a serious design flaw. It's a bear to do the work. There are good replacement systems out there, though. Bolts can shear off. Metal tabs on an internal hub can (will) eventually fail and if they make it into the engine, kaboom, you're done. There are other parts of the vanos that are weak, as well. Basically, all of us will eventually have to beef up our vanos or risk the possibility of catastrophic engine failure.

4. Bearings - Bearings wear in the S54. There are treated bearings that seem to reduce wear, but on a 70K mile MC, you probably need to have the bearings replaced before you reach 100K. An oil analysis with high lead content will offer a clue as to when it needs to be done.

5. Engine mounts bolts - hopefully these have already been replaced with stronger bolts. If not, they can snap. Many of us do it when we replace the engine mounts for stiffer engine mounts that improve the shifting characteristics of the car.

6. Fluids - You need to change the fluids in the car more often. 10W60 is expensive oil. Even from discount sites, you're looking at nearly $100 for just the oil and filter every 7500 miles or so. I think I paid $85. Brake/clutch fluid needs to be replaced regularly. Transmission fluid needs to be changed. The differential fluid needs to be changed. Coolant needs to be replaced. These are higher interval, but still need to be done.

7. Bushings and suspension - unless already done, various bushings will probably need to be replaced with the drivetrain and suspension. Shocks and springs may need to be replaced. Rear springs break with some regularity.

8. Paint / clear protection - depending on what your roads are like, the Z4MC will take some hits to the front bumper and side skirts from rocks and debris. Many of us have or will re-spray these areas. Some of us will put clear protection on these areas. It's a low riding car.

9. Water pump - This is an area that is probably overblown, but the water pump and radiator have some plastic parts. Some like to replace the water pump at around 70K miles as cheap insurance against catastrophic failure.

This engine sounds different than most. The engine taps, the vanos whirls and whines and rattles (but not too much or its a problem ). The dual mass flywheel can clunk. Turn off the engine without depressing the clutch, and it will shudder. We generally like these unique things about the car, but if you don't know they are supposed to make these noises, it can be concerning, so just know that some noise is completely normal.

With all that said, this is without question the most fun car I've ever owned. After driving this car for about a week and then getting in another car, you will think the other car's steering is failing. One of our other cars is a MINI, and even it feels like slop after driving my Z4MR. I love the feedback this car provides and the direct steering. The high revving acceleration is intoxicating. I almost always look back over my shoulder at the car when I park it. It's one of those special cars that don't come along very often. I think they are a bargain at current prices, and the maintenance costs well worth the experience.

This week has been in the 70's and sunny. We had 70's in December this year in North Carolina. I know you're going for an MC, but wow, it has been awesome with the top down. It's been a very long time since I've owned a car where I want to "go for a drive" just for the sake of driving. The Z4M is that kind of car.

If you enter ownership knowing what to expect, and it fits your budget, I think you will be very happy with the decision. I hope this information has been helpful. Good luck with your decision.

Salty

Great info Salty!

[spiceyxi]

Not regarding a Z4MC, but to the point of concerns regarding an older car. My wife was very uneasy of buying an older car and all of the issues that could go wrong with it as it would be her DD. We ended up buying the Z4C from Carmax with the extended warranty. It was probably overkill as it was the highest option (5yr/125K miles), but that made her more confident in the purchase. Plus, it is nice to know in 2019 our car will have some coverage and be 13yo. The Z4C has always been my car crush and it met all of her required check boxes. So, win win. We haven't had to use the warranty yet so I am not sure how that will be. In a year of ownership we have only done an oil change and got a new battery, but this is no M. Still a lot of fun though and I smile whenever I get to drive it.

One thing we noticed though was the quality of these cars varies greatly due to all of the previous years of use. We ended up test driving 3 different cars over a period of a few months. After the first one the wife was sure she didn't want one due to how harsh the drive was and I didn't like the misaligned bumper on the second one. The third one was perfect and we are very happy with it today.

If you go with the M2 be sure to try and get a MY16 one as in MY17 you will lose out on some warranty.

[F87LUV]

Originally Posted by spiceyxi

Not regarding a Z4MC, but to the point of concerns regarding an older car. My wife was very uneasy of buying an older car and all of the issues that could go wrong with it as it would be her DD. We ended up buying the Z4C from Carmax with the extended warranty. It was probably overkill as it was the highest option (5yr/125K miles), but that made her more confident in the purchase. Plus, it is nice to know in 2019 our car will have some coverage and be 13yo. The Z4C has always been my car crush and it met all of her required check boxes. So, win win. We haven't had to use the warranty yet so I am not sure how that will be. In a year of ownership we have only done an oil change and got a new battery, but this is no M. Still a lot of fun though and I smile whenever I get to drive it.

One thing we noticed though was the quality of these cars varies greatly due to all of the previous years of use. We ended up test driving 3 different cars over a period of a few months. After the first one the wife was sure she didn't want one due to how harsh the drive was and I didn't like the misaligned bumper on the second one. The third one was perfect and we are very happy with it today.

If you go with the M2 be sure to try and get a MY16 one as in MY17 you will lose out on some warranty.

Thanks. I'll check out those "certified" type of resellers too. My scheduled allocation is for a 2016. I already told the dealer, I won't take a 2017 build. At that rate, I'll wait until next summer for the LCI 2018. The problem is a lot of the Z coupes I've found are nowhere near me so I can't even test drive it without going out there. Most seem to be in Texas or California. I probably wouldn't want a ten year old car being driven in the northeast anyway!

[XMetal]

Originally Posted by ZGirl07

But...

Totally understood. I'm the same way

But....

Note that a warranty will only cover "some" things if and when it breaks. It won't cover maintenance stuffs or stuffs you want to do preventatively. So...If you can accept what all "Salty" had to say, the go for it and have tons of fun

With that said, I love my Z4MC even with all its flaws

[Huz-Z]

If you want to track or modify the car or just have your heart set on a Z4M then go get it and don't look back.

But an SI coupe is no slouch either

http://www.auto123.com/en/news/2007-...ad-test/53868/

Good luck!!

[wdb]

Originally Posted by XMetal

I would suggest you look into a Z4C instead of an MC as those are lower maintenance. The S54 on the MC is somewhat finicky and you need to keep on top of things.

^^^^^ This. Maybe when they were newer a Z4M was doable as a daily driver. But as you say you're looking at 8-9-10 year old cars now, and that changes the storyline. Even the low mileage examples have 10 year old parts on them.

Yes I noticed it, you want to go fast. The Z4C's are all 3.0si models with 255HP. That's not shabby. My car is very quick off the line, scary fast in turns, and finds 100mph so effortlessly on freeways that I have to watch myself. Find one with good options such as the M Sport suspension and you're looking at a very fun car that has far fewer maintenance needs than the M. Finding a manual transmission can be a challenge - they only made a little over 800.

Buy an M if you can treat it like a toy, a second car, an occasional fun drive. Buy a Z4C if you plan to drive it daily. Or get something newer.

[KevinM]

If you can find a good Z4M coupe, do it. These are special cars. Great post by Salty, can't add too much more. I've been driving the M coupe since 2007, although my initial coupe (bought new) was replaced in 2010 with 9K mile replacement after the dealer bent a strut tower on my original car. The fact that I diligently searched for a low mile replacement in 2010 says it all. This car is the last of its breed and will not be reproduced. Mine is not a DD (now have 28K miles on it) but if maintained, this is reliable car. The S54 is a proven engine to be sure, one of BMW M's best.

I'm not sure how the Z4MC will work for a DD. The M2 sounds like it will be fantastic. I've just ordered a F80 (hopefully ED!) to take over DD duties from my M5. I'm not sure how long I'll keep the F80 (depends on how good the M2 is!) but the Z4MC and the E39 M5 are special and I won't let them go.

GL!