Dyno trouble shooting session of Z4M ESS VT - 525

[ZStig]

You're running an upgraded radiator too right?

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by ZStig

You're running an upgraded radiator too right?

Yes the Zionsville .

[VMZ432]

That is great info, thanks George!! Glad you are back on track!!!

I tracked my VT2 for the first time a couple of weeks ago. In the first 3 sessions I didn't have limp mode once! Unfortunately I said something to a mate about it without touching wood, and in the 4th session I had limp mode twice, and 3 times in the 5th session!!! Never had it 3 times in 1 session before. Still a great day though. Pic below.

I will definitely be thinking about the larger cooler. Seems like it would make the most difference out of the other options, plus it's less than half the price of the aluminium radiator (although I would like to get that too at some point).

Thanks heaps, and again I am VERY happy to know you are back in full effect.

Cheers,
Hoops.

[gmd2003]

[StickMon]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

... and one green group student who was spending his first day at Roebling in a just purchased E36 M3 race car on conti scrub slicks ...

Next time I think I'm having a bad day, I'll remind myself that I'm not this guy.

[Beedub]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

Well the structural rigidity of the E85 M roadster is greater than the E46 M3 coupe so yeah actually it is coupe like. Not as high as the E86 but not that far off. I'll put my roadster up against your coupe any day

+10000 lmao so right....
Theirs no point elaborating GMD, your entering into a battle of intelligence with an unarmed man

Side note GMD your roadster is my fave car on the forum... good to see it back doing work!! update us on the mods youve made, i shall get the zionsville rad during winter.

[Beedub]

on a side note, this limp mode, can we safely say this is happening in the warmer climates only??

edit .. fantastic info on the oil cooler. i may upgrade to this too, if i experience any issues... come on ess, lets get some info on this..

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by Beedub

on a side note, this limp mode, can we safely say this is happening in the warmer climates only??

edit .. fantastic info on the oil cooler. i may upgrade to this too, if i experience any issues... come on ess, lets get some info on this..

Beedub, if it was just temp related I would have eradicated it with the radiator and oil cooler upgrade . It happened once on an out lap while I was warming my car up ! Oil temp was under 180 degrees, and I was part throttle . I really believe it is a multifactorial issue and the car is going into this safe mode bc it believes it's protecting us from something . Sometimes it is temp , sometimes it's positive pressure in the manifold , and sometimes it may be low oil pressure in high G turns . I have eliminated temp and it is happening less , but it is still happening . On a positive note power is very consistent now that temp is in check . In one session I did 7 laps where I accelerated from turn 9 to the end of the straight in 5th gear from ~88 at the apex of 9 to 147mph before the braking zone ! I was hauling the rest of the laps as well so can't be harder on the kit than that . The 35 row Setrab is the proper oil cooler for this kit.

[VMZ432]

Originally Posted by Beedub

on a side note, this limp mode, can we safely say this is happening in the warmer climates only??

edit .. fantastic info on the oil cooler. i may upgrade to this too, if i experience any issues... come on ess, lets get some info on this..

Beedub do you do lots of track days or are you autocross only?

[gmd2003]

The more open Sunday session with less traffic where i ran my best time of the weekend 1:21.8

[Beedub]

Originally Posted by VMZ432

Beedub do you do lots of track days or are you autocross only?

i do Sprint circiuits, basically smaller tracks that are timed but its an actual track not a converted parking lot etc i do around 8 of these all day events per year and its very demanding on the car, enough to have to let the oil temps cool and see glowing rotors etc....

ive also done afew track events but due to time constraints they are evneing sessions....

Ess should spec or at least offer the option of the higher capacity oil cooler...
The rad is cheap insurance and i will purchase one shortly...im hoping that ess dedicate some time to our platform shortly to iron the issues that some of these guys are seeing..... i wont hold my breath however.

[Gt4]

Originally Posted by Beedub

on a side note, this limp mode, can we safely say this is happening in the warmer climates only??

edit .. fantastic info on the oil cooler. i may upgrade to this too, if i experience any issues... come on ess, lets get some info on this..

No you can't say that. It happened to me during 2 warm up laps at 59 F and never happened 2 weeks before of the whole day at 95 F... I can't see how it would be related to the oil temp or water temp going too high...

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by Gtfour

No you can't say that. It happened to me during 2 warm up laps at 59 F and never happened 2 weeks before of the whole day at 95 F... I can't see how it would be related to the oil temp or water temp going too high...

Agreed , although temp can cause the same type of safe mode . That's what's so frustrating .

[Beedub]

hmmmmm i need to get onto a much larger circuit and beat the car up alittle to see what happens.....

silverstone will do ... will report back! however never seen a limp mode on this car and i can assure you it see's proper hard use. still wish ESS would chime in and formulate a proper response.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by Beedub

hmmmmm i need to get onto a much larger circuit and beat the car up alittle to see what happens.....

silverstone will do ... will report back! however never seen a limp mode on this car and i can assure you it see's proper hard use. still wish ESS would chime in and formulate a proper response.

The big difference is the sustained full load the car sees on a full course, wayyyyyyyy more stress on the engine. I due a pull in 5th gear to redline every time from turn 9 till the end of the front straight 88mph -147mph by GPS every lap . You can't do that on a sprint course no matter how hard you drive.
George

[tikamak]

I just wish I can take my car to a track, all these mods are enjoyed as engineering projects, I would love to test them out on a track

[ZStig]

someone needs to hook up an obd2 data logger for a track session

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by ZStig

someone needs to hook up an obd2 data logger for a track session

I can't get mine to stay connected driving on the street much less on the track unfortunately . I've gotten mine to work long enough to know that my temps are good, but that's it .

[sales@ESSTuning]

The original VT1 and VT2 systems were designed primarily for street use. As we have found out over the years unlike the E46 S54 platform the Z4M ECU is very sensitive to many things and when pushed hard on the track can be unhappy and have issues at times. We are looking into the option for a larger oil cooler for track use and also looking into a resolution for some cars that have brake booster issues at the track. While we cannot promise we will find every possible issue with the Z4M that may arise during use on the track under all conditions we are looking into the most common. We have a Z4M in-house now that we will be doing some testing with over the next few weeks. When I know more I will update you guys.

[ZStig]

Originally Posted by Roman@ESS

The original VT1 and VT2 systems were designed primarily for street use. As we have found out over the years unlike the E46 S54 platform the Z4M ECU is very sensitive to many things and when pushed hard on the track can be unhappy and have issues at times. We are looking into the option for a larger oil cooler for track use and also looking into a resolution for some cars that have brake booster issues at the track. While we cannot promise we will find every possible issue with the Z4M that may arise during use on the track under all conditions we are looking into the most common. We have a Z4M in-house now that we will be doing some testing with over the next few weeks. When I know more I will update you guys.

Thanks for chiming in. Glad to see you're continuing to improve this platform

[Str8 RippiN]

Drove my VT2 Z4M this weekend a lot and got limp mode 3-4 times, mostly in 2nd or 3rd gear around 7000rpm for no reason, i have a zionville radiator, oil block off valve, upgraded Setrab 36 row oil cooler (VT2 comes with 24) and i was only reading oil temps around 220 when i got limp mode, i was in a canyon doing some technical stuff in 2nd gear with temps around 240ish (the hottest it got) with outside temps around 78 and no limp mode. I walked away from the whole thing concluding that limp mode is not just heat related (in my findings at least). This being said i have no idea what it could be.

On a side note i was going three digit speed when it came on one time, which is scary when you loose power steering and brakes randomly. I quickly turned the car off and turned it back on, but this is a very serious issue with the kit none the less.

[Beedub]

Originally Posted by Str8 RippiN

Drove my VT2 Z4M this weekend a lot and got limp mode 3-4 times, mostly in 2nd or 3rd gear around 7rpm for no reason, i have a zionville radiator, oil block off valve, upgraded Setrab 36 row oil cooler (VT2 comes with 24) and i was only reading oil temps around 220 when i got limp mode, i was in a canyon doing some technical stuff in 2nd gear with temps around 240ish (the hottest it got) with outside temps around 78 and no limp mode. I walked away from the whole thing concluding that limp mode is not just heat related (in my findings at least). This being said i have no idea what it could be.

On a side note i was going three digit speed when it came on one time, which is scary when you loose power steering and brakes randomly. I quickly turned the car off and turned it back on, but this is a very serious issue with the kit none the less.

its a very very serious issue...... looking forward to the response from ESS as to loose braking on some of the high speed corners i take terrifies me.... even though i havent experienced this, the upgrade to stop it happening is something i want applied to my car. immediately.