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      11-09-2015, 05:44 PM   #1
007MCoupe
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Clutch Rattling Noise?

Hey everyone. So my other car's (2001 Volvo V40) clutch just blew up while I was on the highway. Now I'm hypersensitive to noises...The other day I just noticed this noise coming from my car. The car is at idle and I hear this any time I'm in neutral with the clutch disengaged.

The video doesn't really do it justice, but the louder parts are with the clutch pedal out/disengaged and it gets quieter when I push the pedal in. I've got the phone on the left side of the trans hump then around 12 seconds switch to the right side (in case the mic didn't pick it up for some reason).

The car shifts fine, gets into gear fine, doesn't slip or anything but like I said, hypersensitive to new noises...

Has anyone experienced anything like this? I blame the clutch assembly since the noise goes away when I press the pedal. I don't have expert troubleshooting skills and since I'm in England I don't want to take it to a shop and pay in pounds for what may be nothing. Is there any way to figure this out without paying out the wazoo for new clutch/plate/bushing/whatever it is? How much does this type of maintenance usually run with Indy shops? Just so I have an idea.

Thanks!!

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      11-09-2015, 05:51 PM   #2
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Sounds like your throw out bearing is giving up the ghost...
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      11-09-2015, 05:54 PM   #3
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^^^WHS
Common problem. What I'm less sure of is the urgency to fix it.
Has anyone ever had one go catastrophic, or has everyone just replaced it because it was noisy?
Maybe I should search, but I'm supposed to be working.
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      11-10-2015, 02:55 AM   #4
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It's your throw out bearing. Not a part that gets replaced on its own. Usually done as a full clutch service/replacement. Parts (clutch, bearings, seals, etc) may be around $350-500US, labor is usually 5 hours times whatever the labor rate around you. Good luck man! And don't worry, you're not at any serious risks with a bad throw out bearing. Just get it repaired at your earliest convenience. Cheers!
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      11-10-2015, 05:06 AM   #5
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Is it normal for a worn throwout bearing to make noise with the pedal completely up? (that's what I understand from his story, too bad you cant see the pedal engagement on the video....)

I'm not so sure.
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      11-10-2015, 08:18 AM   #6
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Like they all have said its the throw out bearing. I am getting my clutch, pressure plate and throw out replaced today.
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      11-11-2015, 02:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
Is it normal for a worn throwout bearing to make noise with the pedal completely up? (that's what I understand from his story, too bad you cant see the pedal engagement on the video....)

I'm not so sure.
Yep. It rattles around when there's no load on it.
It stops making noise when there's pressure applied.
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      11-11-2015, 02:23 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasZed4MC
Like they all have said its the throw out bearing. I am getting my clutch, pressure plate and throw out replaced today.
Thanks everyone! I'll have to put this at the top of the priority list.

Texas, are you replacing with oem or going for more performance or anything like that?
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      11-11-2015, 07:19 PM   #9
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I replaced with a stock OEM Veleo. There really isn't any options for a preformance clucth. Clutch Masters doesn't make one. These are a pretty rare breed of a car it seems to be turning out.
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      11-12-2015, 03:14 AM   #10
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To my knowledge there are at least 2 suppliers who make performance clutches for the z4m.
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      11-17-2015, 05:01 AM   #11
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How often do clutches and/or the assembly need to be replaced? I'm finding that between 60-70K miles I've been doing a lot of maintenance, which i don't mind at all, just tedious. Makes you appreciate the car more though
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      11-17-2015, 02:31 PM   #12
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At the risk of jinxing myself, I'm at near 130k miles and the clutch and bearing are fine.

At least 50% stop-go traffic, so it gets a lot of use.
My left leg is twice as strong as my right.
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      11-24-2015, 10:03 AM   #13
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My car made the same noise. Clutch was replaced with under 30k. I was the third owner and it was still under extended warranty.
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      11-26-2015, 07:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aries326 View Post
My car made the same noise. Clutch was replaced with under 30k. I was the third owner and it was still under extended warranty.
it's definitely not under any warranty any longer, but I am looking into clutch replacement options, since they'll be down there anyway...
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      11-26-2015, 10:41 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasZed4MC View Post
Like they all have said its the throw out bearing. I am getting my clutch, pressure plate and throw out replaced today.
I have heard the rattling sound is the throw out bearing several times. I have trouble understanding how a throw out bearing would make noise when it's not even spinning out and not really doing anything when the clutch pedal is not pressed. What goes wrong with the bearing to cause the noise if it's not even spinning. I'm only familiar with bad bearings when they are spinning, not when they are stationary. What am I missing.

My 07 Z4 coupe had a rattle at a few miles thousand miles. It was faint and could only be heard in a quiet environment. I never did anything about it. I though it maybe had something to do with the dual mass flywheel springs.
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      11-29-2015, 01:32 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pungo View Post
I have heard the rattling sound is the throw out bearing several times. I have trouble understanding how a throw out bearing would make noise when it's not even spinning out and not really doing anything when the clutch pedal is not pressed. What goes wrong with the bearing to cause the noise if it's not even spinning. I'm only familiar with bad bearings when they are spinning, not when they are stationary. What am I missing.

My 07 Z4 coupe had a rattle at a few miles thousand miles. It was faint and could only be heard in a quiet environment. I never did anything about it. I though it maybe had something to do with the dual mass flywheel springs.
As the TO bearing wears, the clearance between the balls and the races increases. When the load is off (clutch out) the bearing is just lightly in contact with the pressure plate so it's spinning a bit and rattling as much as the worn clearances allow. When you depress the clutch it forces the balls against the races so there's no clearance for the rattling to happen. You get this when the races and balls are still smooth but just worn. If you get some pitting in the races and/or the balls but there's not a lot of wear (yet), you get the opposite effect. Noise when you depress the clutch and it quiets when you remove the load. If you've got worn AND pitted balls/races you get rattle when the clutch is released (no load) and possibly whine and squeal under load.
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      11-29-2015, 04:36 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_wright View Post
As the TO bearing wears, the clearance between the balls and the races increases. When the load is off (clutch out) the bearing is just lightly in contact with the pressure plate so it's spinning a bit and rattling as much as the worn clearances allow.
The TO bearing is just slightly away from the pressure plate when the pedal is not being pressed; therefore the bearing is NOT spinning.

If what you are saying was true, the TO bearing would be spinning the entire time the car is running and wouldn't last too long.
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      12-03-2015, 10:30 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
To my knowledge there are at least 2 suppliers who make performance clutches for the z4m.
How has your Sachs held up? Did you pair it with a new flywheel? Have you had any chatter?

007MCoupe did you end up pulling the trigger on a new clutch system yet? I've been looking at new systems with my rebuild.
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      12-03-2015, 01:45 PM   #19
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No I used the original flywheel. After 80K it was still good, both the surface as the lateral and axial play.

Flywheel: some minor heat spots but still flat (spots too). I have a picture somewhere where the original lathe grooves are even still visile



Actually the original clutch (and bearing) also had quite a few miles left. (not enough though to pass TIS inspection on the clutch when/if the gearbox is taken off for other maintenance)
But when it's under the car, you can't tell. I installed this one because I got an extremely good deal on it.

I used the original flywheel, so zero chatter.
I thought about a single mass flywheel but only valeo has one, and then you still have a normal clutch. This clutch isnt ment for a single mass flywheel as there are no springs in the disk.
Also the clutch is a bit heavier, so when you stop for a traffic light or so, you're more inclined to put it in neutral, so more confrontation with possible chatter with a light flywheel.

For now the sachs holds up fine. Shift/clutch feel is much better, it is extremely predictable when it grabs, so that helps a lot in shift/clutch/throttle feel. You get a faster shift because you have more feedback on when exactly you can apply power.
You get used to it very quickly (the heavy pedal), much faster than a light pedal. When I did my first testdrive (1 mile or so), and got in my regular car again to go home (I was at my shop), I almost stalled the car twice...overwelmed by the light pedal....head filled with question marks if I turned into some kind of retard....

That's also a bit the problem with modern cars; nowadays when you step into a different car (manuals of course) you just drive off as usual, but back in the days (90's and befor) you always had to get used to the pedal feel of the new car for a few miles. I completely forgot how that was back then.
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      12-03-2015, 03:52 PM   #20
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I can't say that I've had the experience of those older vehicles and the ones I've driven have mostly been modern new age vehicles. I'm still a little wet behind the ears.

I really appreciate your input here, unfortunately my flywheel did not fair as well as yours had with the first owner. They did alright on the maintenance but you could tell that a lot of the clutch behavior was similar to an inexperienced driver for the most part. There are some pretty decent hot spots and they aren't of any specific pattern which has lead me to the decision of purchasing both the light weight flywheel and the clutch assembly. The pads still have some life left in them, but the rest of the system may go before they would, no guarantees but it wouldn't sound as pretty having not replaced the whole thing at this point.

I sincerely appreciate your input here, I was curious to see if not replacing the flywheel was causing a lot of others noises when replacing these clutches but it seems that's not always the case. Thanks again for coming back and sharing this, I've still got some time and some products to mull over.
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      12-03-2015, 06:28 PM   #21
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Mostly the spots arent the problem. the surface has to be fairly even, flat. If that has worn, or corroded, then you have to replace.
But mostly the internal dampening system fails over time. That doesnt meant the flywheel cant have any play in it. BMW/sachs doesnt give out any data on this, but other manufacturers do. For instance LUK (they invented the DMF) says that for the m54b30 flywheel a rotational play of 11deg (4 teeth on the starter gear) is normal and axial play can be 2,9mm. That is the data they give on product info.
There are a lot of stories on DMF's on the internet regarding that if there's play, the DMF is scrap, but that's not true. Some DMF's are allowed more play than others, Luk gives different numbers for a lot of DMF's.

Obviously if your DMF is starting to make noise or sensing vibrations, you have to replace it
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      12-05-2015, 10:00 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsonism View Post
How has your Sachs held up? Did you pair it with a new flywheel? Have you had any chatter?

007MCoupe did you end up pulling the trigger on a new clutch system yet? I've been looking at new systems with my rebuild.
I've contacted Turner about the one they offer and have been looking at JB Racing and still doing some more research if i "need" an upgraded clutch, so I am not close to pulling the trigger. lol
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