ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   ZPOST > BMW Z4 Technical Talk > Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain Modifications
  TireRack

SUPPORT ZPOST BY DOING YOUR TIRERACK SHOPPING FROM THIS BANNER, THANKS!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-29-2014, 04:25 AM   #23
Beedub
Major General
United Kingdom
423
Rep
5,327
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4 M roadster vt2-500
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeybritches View Post
We ran them tonight, side by side, from 3rd gear. I won't post the video publicly, but members with 50+ posts can PM me and I will send it.

First run - 4k rpm, 3rd gear. No contest. G-Power car won by 3 car lengths.

Second run - 3k rpm, 3rd gear. G-Power car was a split second late on the throttle, but pulled ahead by 1-2 car lengths by the top of 3rd.

Surprisingly, the G-Power car was only a little faster until 5k rpm, where it just took off.

I can't wait to get some stepped headers installed on the ESS car.
in for vids!!!

pm pm pm pm me!!
__________________
Z4MR VT2 - Clubsport build.
Multi award winning Detailing | Wrap | PPF specialists UK based - www.topwrapz.com
Appreciate 0
      11-29-2014, 04:34 AM   #24
Beedub
Major General
United Kingdom
423
Rep
5,327
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4 M roadster vt2-500
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

id like to see a run with a comparable spec ESS / VFE car. Your also running in ideal circumstances for the tq rich g-power setup. run them from like 30-130 where you need
run through a few gears, but considering the mod differences, this seems about right.

G-power setup sounds better imo, i was hoping you'd rev the ESS car a few more times, not to keen on the placement of the air filter on g-power thats sucking in hot air from the engine bay, i love to see some logs of AIT and AFR for either car, the less one position sucks as it means bumper off for servicing but its getting our fresh air where it sits.

Very cool thread pokey, one of the most interesting I've seen for a while.

Both cars could do with an engine detail however :-P

FYI - the ess cars plastic intake is in the wrong orientation, you shouldn't see that rubbing spot from the hood on it.

basically each kits has pluses and minus's imo...
__________________
Z4MR VT2 - Clubsport build.
Multi award winning Detailing | Wrap | PPF specialists UK based - www.topwrapz.com

Last edited by Beedub; 11-29-2014 at 07:25 AM..
Appreciate 0
      11-30-2014, 12:00 PM   #25
ZStig
instagram 997turbotom
279
Rep
7,376
Posts

Drives: Interlagos Z4MR
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Delray Beach, FL

iTrader: (4)

would love to know what the Gpower car can do in the quarter mile. Sounds like you need an ESSVT550+ to keep up
__________________
Appreciate 0
      11-30-2014, 11:45 PM   #26
Steenos
Lieutenant
United_States
56
Rep
588
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4M Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Tennessee

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2021 BMW M240i  [0.00]
2007 M Coupe  [0.00]
I was lucky enough to drive the ESS car. Thanks pokey. Pulls very nicely all the way to redline. But the GPower car is like satan himself.
__________________
2021 m240i on order
Appreciate 0
      12-01-2014, 11:31 AM   #27
pokeybritches
Colonel
pokeybritches's Avatar
United_States
479
Rep
2,782
Posts

Drives: ESS/G-Power Z4M, VF Z4, 996tt
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2006 BMW Z4M  [10.00]
2006 BMW Z4M  [8.50]
2003 BMW Z4 3.0i  [9.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beedub
id like to see a run with a comparable spec ESS / VFE car. Your also running in ideal circumstances for the tq rich g-power setup. run them from like 30-130 where you need
run through a few gears, but considering the mod differences, this seems about right.

G-power setup sounds better imo, i was hoping you'd rev the ESS car a few more times, not to keen on the placement of the air filter on g-power thats sucking in hot air from the engine bay, i love to see some logs of AIT and AFR for either car, the less one position sucks as it means bumper off for servicing but its getting our fresh air where it sits.

Very cool thread pokey, one of the most interesting I've seen for a while.

Both cars could do with an engine detail however :-P

FYI - the ess cars plastic intake is in the wrong orientation, you shouldn't see that rubbing spot from the hood on it.

basically each kits has pluses and minus's imo...
The purpose of the single gear pull was to show "area under the curve". What surprised me was how the G-Power car pulled hardest from 5-7k rpm. If the race had been longer, the gap would have increased further. The point had been proven without need to go much faster. Also, the G-Power car was missing the front undertray panel and windshield weather stripping, and at high speeds it becomes horsepower vs drag. I'm fixing everything while it's stored for the winter.

Compared with the older VT2-500 kits, I think the G-Power kit is quicker, but it hasn't been proven on the track. Compared with the newer VT2-525 kits that are a little cheaper and more powerful, it boils down where you want your power - upper midrange or near redline.

The G-Power's intake sits near where the stock airbox pulls its air. As long as you're moving forward, I think you're probably not pulling in much hot air from the engine.
__________________


VF Engineering Z4 3.0i, ESS Z4M, G-Power Z4M, 996 Turbo
Appreciate 0
      12-01-2014, 11:34 AM   #28
pokeybritches
Colonel
pokeybritches's Avatar
United_States
479
Rep
2,782
Posts

Drives: ESS/G-Power Z4M, VF Z4, 996tt
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2006 BMW Z4M  [10.00]
2006 BMW Z4M  [8.50]
2003 BMW Z4 3.0i  [9.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZStig
would love to know what the Gpower car can do in the quarter mile. Sounds like you need an ESSVT550+ to keep up
I'm planning to hit the drag strip in the spring. My ESS car supposedly did an 11.8 by one of the previous owners.

With all of the stock cats in place, you would need a 550 kit to keep up with a G-Power + Supersprint V1 setup. With the same same exhaust setup, I think a 525 kit would be comparable. I'll find out in a few months. Right now, the stock headers are really choking performance.
__________________


VF Engineering Z4 3.0i, ESS Z4M, G-Power Z4M, 996 Turbo
Appreciate 0
      12-01-2014, 12:43 PM   #29
Beedub
Major General
United Kingdom
423
Rep
5,327
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4 M roadster vt2-500
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

i really need to get a dyno myself with these 100 cell cats and large bore section 1, the weight difference was massive but id like to think i picked up some decent HP/TQ, time will tell....
__________________
Z4MR VT2 - Clubsport build.
Multi award winning Detailing | Wrap | PPF specialists UK based - www.topwrapz.com
Appreciate 0
      12-01-2014, 01:15 PM   #30
Steeler
Colonel
Steeler's Avatar
2422
Rep
2,697
Posts

Drives: Built not Bought 04 Z4 VF
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Kitchener Ontario Canada

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steenos View Post
I was lucky enough to drive the ESS car. Thanks pokey. Pulls very nicely all the way to redline. But the GPower car is like satan himself.



This right here gives me chills
__________________
W2A Intercooled Vortech V3Si, custom ducting, Alpha N, 60# Bosch,2.62 pulley, multi port WMI, Severn Tuning(pokeybritches), Tial, magnaflow,SS race muffler, 42 design,3.91LSD, H&R, Hotchkis,ST coils,Konis, Megan camber arms, AKG SS, Nylon mounts, Poly bushings, Carbon interior, CF Aero.APEX
Appreciate 1
      12-02-2014, 06:25 AM   #31
tikamak
Captain
Lebanon
58
Rep
912
Posts

Drives: 2006 Z4M Roadster TiAG/black
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Beirut

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbarton62 View Post
[/COLOR][/B]

This right here gives me chills
Oh how i wish i went with a G-power instead
Appreciate 0
      12-02-2014, 07:50 AM   #32
Beedub
Major General
United Kingdom
423
Rep
5,327
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4 M roadster vt2-500
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

OP she sounds awesome with those pipes, love the backfire at one point.
__________________
Z4MR VT2 - Clubsport build.
Multi award winning Detailing | Wrap | PPF specialists UK based - www.topwrapz.com
Appreciate 0
      12-02-2014, 09:08 AM   #33
pokeybritches
Colonel
pokeybritches's Avatar
United_States
479
Rep
2,782
Posts

Drives: ESS/G-Power Z4M, VF Z4, 996tt
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2006 BMW Z4M  [10.00]
2006 BMW Z4M  [8.50]
2003 BMW Z4 3.0i  [9.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beedub
i really need to get a dyno myself with these 100 cell cats and large bore section 1, the weight difference was massive but id like to think i picked up some decent HP/TQ, time will tell....
I think you will be surprised with how much power you've gained. Supercharged E46 guys going from a Euro setup to a SS V1 (200 cell) catted setup have gained 25 whp, so moving to the 100 cell DKF cats should net a very decent gain.
__________________


VF Engineering Z4 3.0i, ESS Z4M, G-Power Z4M, 996 Turbo
Appreciate 0
      12-02-2014, 10:03 AM   #34
Beedub
Major General
United Kingdom
423
Rep
5,327
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4 M roadster vt2-500
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeybritches View Post
I think you will be surprised with how much power you've gained. Supercharged E46 guys going from a Euro setup to a SS V1 (200 cell) catted setup have gained 25 whp, so moving to the 100 cell DKF cats should net a very decent gain.

it FEELs like I've picked up some decent power....
__________________
Z4MR VT2 - Clubsport build.
Multi award winning Detailing | Wrap | PPF specialists UK based - www.topwrapz.com
Appreciate 0
      12-02-2014, 10:40 AM   #35
tikamak
Captain
Lebanon
58
Rep
912
Posts

Drives: 2006 Z4M Roadster TiAG/black
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Beirut

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beedub View Post
it FEELs like I've picked up some decent power....
It feels like i've picked up power on my ess as well after using EURO headers and emptying the cats completely in the US S pipe.

It doesn't feel very strong below 5K RPM though, not satanic like the guys are describing.
However, above 5K it feels like it wants to rip the chassis apart and rev to 12K.
In a race condition where you would be constantly above 5K, i would feel that the car would be very very quick and scary.
Appreciate 0
      12-02-2014, 11:57 PM   #36
pokeybritches
Colonel
pokeybritches's Avatar
United_States
479
Rep
2,782
Posts

Drives: ESS/G-Power Z4M, VF Z4, 996tt
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2006 BMW Z4M  [10.00]
2006 BMW Z4M  [8.50]
2003 BMW Z4 3.0i  [9.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by tikamak
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beedub View Post
it FEELs like I've picked up some decent power....
It feels like i've picked up power on my ess as well after using EURO headers and emptying the cats completely in the US S pipe.

It doesn't feel very strong below 5K RPM though, not satanic like the guys are describing.
However, above 5K it feels like it wants to rip the chassis apart and rev to 12K.
In a race condition where you would be constantly above 5K, i would feel that the car would be very very quick and scary.
I can relate. The Vortech loves the high rpm. There is a difference in the midrange power though.

I don't think one kit is significantly better than the other, but I didn't have to go through any kind of install process or deal with tech support with either kit. Only end state.

I will say that in the end, you get what you pay for. I had an awesome shop (Precision Sport Industries) do the G-Power install, and it has worked almost flawlessly for the past 17k miles (my issues were a BPV bracket that popped off, and a rattling intake... both of which could be due to worn motor mounts and were very minor). The previous owners of my ESS car spent a fortune on it, and it shows.

Readers should understand that it's not about peak power versus price that makes a kit more enjoyable... "this kit makes x horsepower for y dollars". There's look, sound, feel, and overall power through the rpm band too. I don't think one can go wrong with either kit, but they are certainly different. The only time peak power matters is under ideal conditions on a dyno or drag strip, for bragging rights on the internet. I'm ok with other cars being faster, because at a point, you have enough. There will always be someone faster. I'm not so sure they're happier. 20 years ago, both cars would have been at the top of the supercar/exotic spectrum. Fun is still fun, no matter what other cars can do. The point is, where do you want your power, and how do you want the car to drive? If you want it to be aggressive and come on hard, the G-Power kit is for you. If you are looking for something that drives like a jet with seemingly infinite top end, go for the ESS car.
__________________


VF Engineering Z4 3.0i, ESS Z4M, G-Power Z4M, 996 Turbo
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2014, 12:20 AM   #37
tikamak
Captain
Lebanon
58
Rep
912
Posts

Drives: 2006 Z4M Roadster TiAG/black
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Beirut

iTrader: (0)

I would say that if i had to do it again, I would choose the G-power.

I spend most of my time in the midrange, all people do.
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2014, 05:40 PM   #38
ZStig
instagram 997turbotom
279
Rep
7,376
Posts

Drives: Interlagos Z4MR
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Delray Beach, FL

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeybritches View Post
I can relate. The Vortech loves the high rpm. There is a difference in the midrange power though.

I don't think one kit is significantly better than the other, but I didn't have to go through any kind of install process or deal with tech support with either kit. Only end state.

I will say that in the end, you get what you pay for. I had an awesome shop (Precision Sport Industries) do the G-Power install, and it has worked almost flawlessly for the past 17k miles (my issues were a BPV bracket that popped off, and a rattling intake... both of which could be due to worn motor mounts and were very minor). The previous owners of my ESS car spent a fortune on it, and it shows.

Readers should understand that it's not about peak power versus price that makes a kit more enjoyable... "this kit makes x horsepower for y dollars". There's look, sound, feel, and overall power through the rpm band too. I don't think one can go wrong with either kit, but they are certainly different. The only time peak power matters is under ideal conditions on a dyno or drag strip, for bragging rights on the internet. I'm ok with other cars being faster, because at a point, you have enough. There will always be someone faster. I'm not so sure they're happier. 20 years ago, both cars would have been at the top of the supercar/exotic spectrum. Fun is still fun, no matter what other cars can do. The point is, where do you want your power, and how do you want the car to drive? If you want it to be aggressive and come on hard, the G-Power kit is for you. If you are looking for something that drives like a jet with seemingly infinite top end, go for the ESS car.
do you have fr8dog's old car? I think he put down an 11.8 quarter mile in that thing
__________________
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2014, 05:56 PM   #39
pokeybritches
Colonel
pokeybritches's Avatar
United_States
479
Rep
2,782
Posts

Drives: ESS/G-Power Z4M, VF Z4, 996tt
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2006 BMW Z4M  [10.00]
2006 BMW Z4M  [8.50]
2003 BMW Z4 3.0i  [9.00]
I have nekky's old car. Rabbit69 owned it before that. Not sure about its history prior to that. It's originally a U.S. car though.
__________________


VF Engineering Z4 3.0i, ESS Z4M, G-Power Z4M, 996 Turbo
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2014, 06:00 PM   #40
pokeybritches
Colonel
pokeybritches's Avatar
United_States
479
Rep
2,782
Posts

Drives: ESS/G-Power Z4M, VF Z4, 996tt
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2006 BMW Z4M  [10.00]
2006 BMW Z4M  [8.50]
2003 BMW Z4 3.0i  [9.00]
I spoke with Frank at TTFS today. He said the ESS tune is usually pretty good out of the box... aggressive, but it can run a little lean due to the difference in U.S./Euro fuels. I got the green light for a retune after throwing on the headers next month. Then we will have an apples to apples comparison.
__________________


VF Engineering Z4 3.0i, ESS Z4M, G-Power Z4M, 996 Turbo
Appreciate 0
      12-06-2014, 07:40 AM   #41
DRedman45
Lieutenant
DRedman45's Avatar
35
Rep
441
Posts

Drives: E86 //M coupe
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northern va

iTrader: (0)

I really need to check out these cars now that you are local haha
__________________
2007 //M Coupe. BSM. Fabspeed headers. Catless. BMS x-pipe. Strömung cans. evolve tune. Turner CSL airbox. Airrex air suspension with autopilot v2 management.

My Build Thread
Appreciate 0
      12-06-2014, 08:59 AM   #42
Beedub
Major General
United Kingdom
423
Rep
5,327
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4 M roadster vt2-500
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeybritches View Post
I spoke with Frank at TTFS today. He said the ESS tune is usually pretty good out of the box... aggressive, but it can run a little lean due to the difference in U.S./Euro fuels. I got the green light for a retune after throwing on the headers next month. Then we will have an apples to apples comparison.
can't wait.....

will it get the same mods as the g-power car, BTW the wheels on the red car are total sex. i LOVED them when i saw them for sale, can you post some more pic of the car on them and remind me of the sizes again please.
__________________
Z4MR VT2 - Clubsport build.
Multi award winning Detailing | Wrap | PPF specialists UK based - www.topwrapz.com
Appreciate 0
      12-06-2014, 03:24 PM   #43
pokeybritches
Colonel
pokeybritches's Avatar
United_States
479
Rep
2,782
Posts

Drives: ESS/G-Power Z4M, VF Z4, 996tt
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2006 BMW Z4M  [10.00]
2006 BMW Z4M  [8.50]
2003 BMW Z4 3.0i  [9.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beedub
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeybritches View Post
I spoke with Frank at TTFS today. He said the ESS tune is usually pretty good out of the box... aggressive, but it can run a little lean due to the difference in U.S./Euro fuels. I got the green light for a retune after throwing on the headers next month. Then we will have an apples to apples comparison.
can't wait.....

will it get the same mods as the g-power car, BTW the wheels on the red car are total sex. i LOVED them when i saw them for sale, can you post some more pic of the car on them and remind me of the sizes again please.
Thanks! It's raining all weekend, but I will post some when I get the time next week.

They are CCW C14's in 18x9ET32 and 18x10ET25 with 255/35/18 and 275/35/18. The rears could take 285/35/18's. I'm not sure if the car is running spacers, as I haven't taken the wheels off. Right now it's sitting on stock suspension with no rubbing, even at full wheel lock.

The wheels are machined, which makes for an interesting finish. They're fully forged, which is awesome.

The ESS car won't quite have identical mods, since the G-Power car has Supersprint V1 stepped headers. The V1's are designed with only performance in mind, cost no concern. They require the special section 1 because of it, and they won't mate to the stock section 1. The CPI stepped headers and SS V2 stepped headers are designed to work with the stock section 1, so the design is somewhat limited in that respect. I don't think the difference is huge, but it's worth noting. I'm considering getting a custom section 1 with HJS cats to make it comparable.
__________________


VF Engineering Z4 3.0i, ESS Z4M, G-Power Z4M, 996 Turbo
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2014, 07:44 PM   #44
pokeybritches
Colonel
pokeybritches's Avatar
United_States
479
Rep
2,782
Posts

Drives: ESS/G-Power Z4M, VF Z4, 996tt
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2006 BMW Z4M  [10.00]
2006 BMW Z4M  [8.50]
2003 BMW Z4 3.0i  [9.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRedman45
I really need to check out these cars now that you are local haha
Better hurry! The G-Power car is stored for the winter, and the ESS car will follow in a couple of weeks.
__________________


VF Engineering Z4 3.0i, ESS Z4M, G-Power Z4M, 996 Turbo
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:35 AM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST