Another Blackstone report - feedback appreciated

[XMetal]

Being paranoid from hanging out on various forums, finally decided to start collecting data on the engine at the beginning of the year…and boy, am I glad I did - should have done it from day 1!

Just received my 2nd Blackstone report today (see attached). Although, Lead is slightly lower from my 1st report, it’s still higher than normal (or at least what I am comfortable at seeing). With other metals (Iron, Copper, Tin) being within or below average, is it possible that the high lead reading is due to my engine still being “broken-in”? Also, is it reasonable to assume that I am relatively safe on bearings replacement until we see the other metals (Iron, Copper, Tin) start creeping up?

Opinions, feedbacks are greatly appreciated.

Oh…as an experiment, I’ve decided to try out Red Line 5W50 this go around and most likely next oil change as well to see if it makes any difference. Figured I’ll get concrete data one way or another to see whether the TWS 10W60 is indeed the “Holy Grail” oil for the S54.

[bignosejim]

My advice would be to keep revs down (<4k) until warmed up and don't fill to the top line on the dipstick (I usually go between 1/2 to 3/4 above bottom line). I feel that too high an oil level is also bad for the bearings and the oil level seems to rise quite a bit when your at normal operating temperature.

My first oil analysis was 22 ppm lead. But there were too many variables to track down the culprit. For that sample my oil level was over the line (dealership changed the oil), long cross country drive, added techron right before oil change and ended up dropping the sample bottle in the oil pan into which I was draining.

My next sample was at 8 ppm (5,000 miles later) before I really paid attention to properly warming up the engine. After that my lead samples have been at 3 ppm (next two samples).

[XMetal]

Thanks for the input. For this 2nd sample, I did tried to keep revs down (<4k) until warmed up. So...I guessed that helped slightly?

My fill is 1/2 way on the dipstick checking 2 minutes after shut down and creeps up to the full line after sitting overnight. However, when the car was still under warranty/maintenance, I noticed the dealer had always overfilled and it didn't occurred to me back then to remove the excess oil

On a related side note, I have been tossing around the idea of using a magnetic drain plug, but I'm afraid it will skew the oil analysis results as it will attract all the ferrous metals to it and won't show up in the UOA - thoughts?

[kennyfrc]

Reducing viscosity will only make things worse especially in the the presence of worn rod bearings. My suggestion is to change your oil and add half a bottle of Red Line Break-In additive then monitor via UOA. I average lead 1-2PPM per oil change and have tried several different types of oil, redline gave the worst result of all.

The S54 really likes ZDDP!

[Patrick Gent]

My lead was very high (44) on my first Blackstone at around 66,000 miles. Came down some, but came down a lot (down to 14, which still is not great but way better) when I started sitting in the driveway and letting it warm up for a couple of minutes, then keeping the r's down until fully warm. From what I know (only from reading forums) the lead wears through, then you see copper in the analysis and that is the time to replace the bearings. On the other hand, a highly respected local independant which I just started going to as my free maintenance ran out told me he replaces the S54 rod bearings as routine maintenance every 60,000 miles.

There was a guy on one of the forums who started using RedLine 5-50 at the suggestion of his local high performance shop. The theory was that the thinner oil could be pumped more easily into the bearing space at high rpm's. Since I am considering taking the fight to BMW when they get bad, I am sticking with the Castrol.

[XMetal]

Patrick,
Is your copper still within the norm?

Since I know bearing swap is inevitable, I wanted to test out the 5W50 theory. Besides, from all the analysis that I've seen, looks like the Castrol 10W60 shears down to a 50 viscosity anyway. I guessed we will see how well RedLine would hold its viscosity in the same interval.

I also asked Blackstone if using Techron cleaner would cause elevated lead readings. Their answer was that it's still inconclusive (they don't have enough data to make a call).

[Shipkiller]

All things being equal, I would agree the statement "lowering the viscosity will lead to greater wear".

In this case, all things are not equal. The S54 was never designed with 10W60. It was designed with 5W30 and that was the used for the first two years of production. The switch to 10W60 was/is a band-aid approach to the (second) rod bearing issue.

Not going above 4000RPM until engine temperature is 180+ is good. I have been doing this since day one. Another thing is minimizing the time spent above 7000RPM. This is where most of the bearing wear occurs.

I had my rod bearings replaced at 38K miles with lots of track time. During this time, I had a discussion the James Clay of Bimmerworld at the track. He said that they (Bimmerworld) was seeing much better rod bearing wear out of the S54 and S64 by switching to Redline 15W50. He said that the 50vis oil flowed better in the engine. So I switched oils….. and I add a bottle of ZDDP plus… and RL15W50 has almost twice as much ZDDP as 10W60 to start with.

Now 20K later and about the same number of track days (lots), my lead levels is at 8ppm, at last oil change. 3000miles until my next oil change.

Only time will tell.

As Blackstone says, your lead levels are a little high… but there could be a good reason for this, other than rod bearings.

I would be very vigilant with fuel and gasoline additives, keeping track of what you are using, until the next oil change. If you are not, by mistake, introducing lead into the system and the lead levels are still high, I would start saving your money to have this maintenance performed.

[elerner61]

Very interesting reading. I live in the New York city area and drive my car all year 'round in temps down around 10 deg. F. sometimes. Because of this it would seem the RL15w-50 is a non-starter for me. I don't track the car, but would adding ZDDP plus to Castrol 10w-60 be something I could do to give me added bearing protection. I'm running 7.5K miles between oil changes and my first Blackstone at 39K miles showed 5ppmLead. Not trying to be too anal, just thinking ahead.

[XMetal]

Ship, appreciate the feedback and comments. I had thought about adding ZDDP, but didn't want the added risk of damaging the cats since I don't know how much of the oil may end up in the combustion chamber. I guess I'll wait until the next analysis to see how much ZDDP is in RedLine compared to TWS and make my decision then.

[Shipkiller]

Zinc damaging the CAT's is a risk. Since my engine burns zero oil, I just the risk manageable.

Looking at my BS reports, three reports show that at oil change time(approx 7000 miles), the oil with a bottle of ZDDP+ had a little over 2100ppm of zinc. I did one oil change without adding a bottle of ZDDP+ and the zinc level at oil change time was 1400ppm. All those mentioned oil reports are based on RL15W50. The spec sheets for Castrol 10W60 shows new oil with a zinc content of 1100ppm. Take away from that what you will.....

Only you can make the determination to use ZDDP+ based on what you observe with your engine.

[XMetal]

Hmmm...this is becoming very interesting. One thing I just noticed from my report is the correlation between Zinc and Lead. Zinc and Lead from the 2 samples are almost inversely proportional to each other!

[Shipkiller]

There are several other threads on this forum about this topic.

[XMetal]

Ship, which of the following are you using?

• ZDDPlus => http://zddplus.com/products/zddplus-oil-additive/
• RedLine Break-In additive => http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=121&pcid=1

Thanks.

[Vanne]

X, interesting read mate, thx for bringing it up again. Not having done my bearings yet and up at 130k miles now, probably about time I start looking into this.
That said, a black stone report is out of my reach, and due to my high mileage, I'd imagine the cash would be better spent on the rod bearings. So yeah thanks for bringing it up X, Ship, which replacement bearings did u go with? Oem? Or otherwise?

Cheers. No hijack intended. :-)

[tikamak]

I rebuilt my engine with the VAC 20% flow extra oil pump and i am currently using Mobil1 0w-40.

Just FIY

[Shipkiller]

Originally Posted by XMetal

Ship, which of the following are you using?

• ZDDPlus => http://zddplus.com/products/zddplus-oil-additive/
• RedLine Break-In additive => http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=121&pcid=1

Thanks.

ZDDP+

Originally Posted by Vanne

which replacement bearings did u go with? Oem? Or otherwise?

Cheers. No hijack intended. :-)

One of the last sets of BMW Motorsport Rod Bearings in existance.... They are not made anymore. If I replace the rod bearings again, unless I can find something better, then its OEM.

[XMetal]

Originally Posted by tikamak

I rebuilt my engine with the VAC 20% flow extra oil pump and i am currently using Mobil1 0w-40.

Just FIY

It would be interesting to see an UOA result for Mobil1 0w-40 in the S54.

FYI...my M54 X5 loves Mobil1 0w-40 for some reason as it is chugging down about 1 quart of it in between oil changes, but never done it on anything else. Not sure why

Originally Posted by Vanne

Cheers. No hijack intended. :-)

No worries...all discussions on bearings are welcome

[Patrick Gent]

X -- little late getting back to this thread. Yes, copper is OK so far. And I think it was Shipkiller's comments on another forum that I recalled regarding the Redline.

Ship--first I have seen reference to ZDDP--I gather it is a zink additive? And that is supposed to help with bearing wear?

[Shipkiller]

Zinc (Zinc DiakylDithioPhosphates), better known as ZDDP is not really for the rod bearings. I use it mainly for the valve train.

Zinc needs heat and load for it to activate and then lubricate the surface. Some types of Zinc activate faster under less heat and less load than other types of Zinc. These “fast burn” Zinc additives provide better protection because they react faster and establish that protective Phosphate glass coating quickly.

[bignosejim]

Originally Posted by XMetal

It would be interesting to see an UOA result for Mobil1 0w-40 in the S54.

Here you go. I started using it after my last oil change. It's only street driven, but sees revs to 8k about every other time I drive it. It gets up to temp quicker than TWS. I did have to add about 700 ml of oil between oil changes when I don't have to add any TWS. That would be my only complaint. I refilled with Mobil 1 after that oil change.

[XMetal]

Jim, thank you for the report on Mobil1 0w40.

Lot of good info...thanks all

[tikamak]

Originally Posted by XMetal

Jim, thank you for the report on Mobil1 0w40.

Lot of good info...thanks all

I am really enjoying Mobil1 0w-40 oil in my supercharged car.
Also i believe that it is working pretty well with the competition oil pump