GB: Official DKF Section 1 Kit

[Caddyshk]

Ran both Ian's, and my car at Mosport on Wednesday. I can tell you this system with headers create more HP and torque. Speed out of the corners and Andretti straight with Ian's car more than just a subjective feeling. Can't wait to get my headers and DKF sec 1 installed for the next session!

[Arrgo1]

Like I said, works great, sounds wonderful

[philjw]

Originally Posted by Arrgo1

Like I said, works great, sounds wonderful

Glad to hear it's working out for some! I gave up trying to make everything work for the emissions system after two attempts ($$$) at my local shop and now have a AA tune that turned off the rear O2s. I agree that the combination of euro headers and DKF section one makes a very real difference in sound and power. I've just had so many issues and had to spend so much more money to get here. A euro section one would have been a much better option and I would have been done over a year ago.

And even now there's an exhaust leak at the clamps supplied by DKF when things are cool. My shop is convinced that the clamps themselves are the issue, and they suggest different clamps (more $$$). Has anyone else had problems with the clamps? I can see the carbon build-up around the leaks. Any suggestions?

I emailed DKF some time ago, and Doug apologized and asked me to send pictures so he could help solve the problem, which I did back in mid-May. Since then, no response, no suggestions, no contact whatsoever. What happened to all that rhetoric about DKF standing behind its product? Hope others have an experience more like Arrgo1 and less like mine.

[itdnwiwbp]

Originally Posted by Arrgo1

Doug said that the cats that were supplied by his vendor were uncertified units which were chosen to reduce the cost of the overall system.

I really appreciate this info since it's what I've suspected the entire time. It's absolute bullshit that uncertified cats were used. I never would have even considered buying these had I known this was the case. For shame DKF! I know my wife isn't gonna let me sink more money into this to make it work so I'm stuck with some scrap metal in my garage.

[Arrgo1]

My previous post was removed at Doug's request. My information regarding certified and uncertified cats was not correct, my misunderstanding. Once again I am hoping Doug will comment further to clear this up.

Yet another reason for me not to post on the darn forums. Seems no matter what you do you always pee in someones cornflakes.

Regards

[itdnwiwbp]

Originally Posted by Arrgo1

My previous post was removed at Doug's request. My information regarding certified and uncertified cats was not correct, my misunderstanding. Once again I am hoping Doug will comment further to clear this up.

Yet another reason for me not to post on the darn forums. Seems no matter what you do you always pee in someones cornflakes.

Regards

Seems like pretty specific info to have been a misunderstanding. I guess we'll all just sit around and wait to see what Doug says THIS TIME. Thanks again, Arrgo1.

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by itdnwiwbp

I really appreciate this info since it's what I've suspected the entire time. It's absolute bullshit that uncertified cats were used. I never would have even considered buying these had I known this was the case. For shame DKF! I know my wife isn't gonna let me sink more money into this to make it work so I'm stuck with some scrap metal in my garage.

The CATs are not certified (stamped) for CA CARB emissions compliance.
that is just not possible for a small independent vendor

This was clear from the beginning as there was at least 1 CA owner that didn't join the GB because of the stringent CA regs.

[Mtxzptlk]

Hearing from DKF on this would be great.

It seems that being able to get section 1 to work has become somewhat of a lucky lottery for those who have put theirs on.

Less than 50/50 odds at that.

[itdnwiwbp]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

The CATs are not certified (stamped) for CA CARB emissions compliance.
that is just not possible for a small independent vendor

This was clear from the beginning as there was at least 1 CA owner that didn't join the GB because of the stringent CA regs.

I'm not worried about them being CARB legal. I just want them to pass the tailpipe test and not cause a CEL. I specifically PM'd to verify that that is in fact what this part would accomplish before committing to the group buy. So far I don't think anyone has even gotten away without a CEL on a stock tune.

Edit: I'm not an exhaust expert so I took "uncertified" to mean they just tossed some material in there (which wouldn't surprise me the way the last year has gone) rather than using a particular cell count or however cats are categorized. If I've misunderstood that I'm sorry but the fact remains they're still not serving the function that was promised.

[philjw]

Originally Posted by itdnwiwbp

I'm not worried about them being CARB legal. I just want them to pass the tailpipe test and not cause a CEL. I specifically PM'd to verify that that is in fact what this part would accomplish before committing to the group buy. So far I don't think anyone has even gotten away without a CEL on a stock tune.

Edit: I'm not an exhaust expert so I took "uncertified" to mean they just tossed some material in there (which wouldn't surprise me the way the last year has gone) rather than using a particular cell count or however cats are categorized. If I've misunderstood that I'm sorry but the fact remains they're still not serving the function that was promised.

Same here. My understanding was that this was the ideal option for those of us wishing to install cat-less headers and relocate the rear O2 sensors without triggering a check engine light. At least my shop is convinced that the cats provided by DKF were inadequate to avoid triggering the CEL.

[itdnwiwbp]

So, I wrote to Doug asking for clarification on these misunderstandings and haven't heard anything back. Disappointing.

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by itdnwiwbp

I'm not worried about them being CARB legal. I just want them to pass the tailpipe test and not cause a CEL. I specifically PM'd to verify that that is in fact what this part would accomplish before committing to the group buy. So far I don't think anyone has even gotten away without a CEL on a stock tune.

Edit: I'm not an exhaust expert so I took "uncertified" to mean they just tossed some material in there (which wouldn't surprise me the way the last year has gone) rather than using a particular cell count or however cats are categorized. If I've misunderstood that I'm sorry but the fact remains they're still not serving the function that was promised.

i'm not an expert either but my understanding is that there is no certification of any kind for CATs other than the ca CARB thing.

My understanding on CATs is that there are basically 3 components. (media, cell density and coating)

The media is usually one of two different types; either ceramic or metal.
Metal is the more expensive CAT and it is more robust than the ceramic type.
We have the metallic type.

For cell count, you can look in the end of the CAT and count the density.
From what I can see it looks like it is 300 cell media density.

The 3rd thing is a coating on the metal media.
This is some sort of precious metal coating which is sacrificed during the catalytic reaction.
From what I understand this somewhat of proprietary method and material for coating the metal media and there is no way to know what it is or how good it will work. (other than the manufacturer)
It will basically work or not.

[itdnwiwbp]

I appreciate that info, Ian. Greatly expands my knowledge of cats. I did write to Doug asking how the misunderstandings that were posted the other day came about since it really was oddly specific info for the poster to have misunderstood. Can we expect to get clarification on that from him?

[inTgr8r]

If you emailed him, I would certainly expect a response.
I'm sure he will.

[Mtxzptlk]

Update?

Any response from Ian?

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by Mtxzptlk

Update?

Any response from Ian?

You mean from Doug?
I was wondering the same thing......

[Mtxzptlk]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

You mean from Doug?
I was wondering the same thing......

Yes, I meant Doug.

*Facepalm*

[inTgr8r]

[itdnwiwbp]

Doug did respond. There wasn't any big news - basically that they've been in contact with the vendor looking for solutions. I'd be glad to post it if you think that'd be alright with Doug, Ian.

[inTgr8r]

If it's a DKF response, I don't see why posting it would be an issue.

If you're Ok with it I can ask for a copy to post....

[itdnwiwbp]

Here's Doug's response in its entirety:

Hi Tony
I apologize for taking so long to get back to you, I definitely want to address your concerns regarding the quality of our cats. I am in no means an expert on catalytic converters but I will try and explain the events up to date.

It is my understanding the only certification for aftermarket cats is the CARB certification. If the cats are CARB certified they will have a sticker or plate attached to the cat with the certification number. This number can be looked up and will verify the proper R&D, testing, and all related paperwork to verify the results have been properly filed with the government. A cat with this certification number will even pass the EPA rules and regulations for California. This is the reason I had the person pull the post. I did not want to confuse the forum members with the word certified. We specified to the vendor we wanted good quality cats when we placed the order. The vendor assured us his cats were a good quality cat but they were not certified.

We ordered metallic core cats due to the fact our research indicated the metallic core cats would take the heat better than the ceramic and was more durable. Since some of our customers track their cars, which you well know builds up a lot of heat due to the high RPM’s the car turns we decided to go with the more expensive metallic core. This would ensure we were supplying all our customers the best core option on the market.

The cell density is determined by the number of holes that are in the honeycomb that make up the core. If you look down the end of the cat you will see the honeycomb for the core. Our customers have the 300 count honeycomb. The precious metals coating is the substance that causes the catalytic conversion to take place. The recipe or quantities of precious metals in relationship to each other is a guarded recipe, if you will, by each vendor. There is no way they will disclose the recipe to anyone due to the amount of testing and R&D that went into perfecting the results they required for their product.

The manufacturer we chose to build or kit has been building exhaust systems and kits for years including mufflers, cats, and resonators. Before we chose this manufacturer we spoke with some of his customers and asked them about the product they had ordered from him. The customers we spoke with implied they product he supplied met their requirements and they were satisfied with the quality. We also checked with the BBB for complaints and we found none. I feel the research we put into a vendor was enough to ensure we had
a reputable vendor to produce our product. The vendors proto type components were produced we made a few changes to bring the kit to our standards had another proto kit built and everything was fine.

When we placed our order for the kits we ordered a metallic 300 cell cat for the kit. We did not in any way try to cut corners in the material used in the cat. We are just as disappointed, upset whatever you want to call it, in the fact our customers are having this problem with the cats. We are in contact with the vendor to see what if anything can be done to correct the situation. We are also enlisting the help of other vendors to gain knowledge and a perspective on this problem. We at DKF have been working behind the scene for our customers to ensure we give you, through the vendor, the best quality part he can produce. We try to maintain a high quality standard for the parts we produce. However one thing I have learned is when the parts are being built by the vendor everything is out of our sight and out of our control until we receive the parts back. As you are aware of sometimes things get a little out of whack and causes us to scramble to get the problem corrected for our customers through our vendor.

We are still actively looking for a solution to this problem if there is one. I just want our customers to know we would never to our knowledge use inferior parts or components in the systems or parts we have built for our customers to reduce our build cost to boost profit. We have not made any money on this group by, in fact we have lost quite a bit trying to get our customers a quality part. Our motto is “We build quality parts one at a time”. We try to adhere to this on each on group buy and part we make. Our customers are too important to us.

As I have stated before we are actively looking for a solution to this problem. I hope this has helped you understand our view point and commitment to our customers. We thank you for your understanding and hope to provide a solution to this problem, if there is one soon.
Thank you
Doug DKF

[fdagen]

Sorry everyone is going through this. I know it's frustrating.