Tempted to get a Z4 - talk me in/out of it

[CT-Scott]

First a bit of history: Many years ago, I had a bright yellow '91 Toyota MR2 (non-turbo). It was the first car I ever bought new (and, to this day, the first of only two cars I ever bought new). At the time I was going to college, working part time, and living at home. Loved the car. Then one winter day, we got hit with some freezing rain, and the car spun out when I was shifting. Came to a nice stop in the middle of the road, safe and sound, but then another car hit their brakes and slowly but surely slid into the passenger door. I got it fixed but when the next winter approached, I got worried that a RWD car might be a bad choice in CT. I couldn't convince my dad to let me buy a 2nd beater for the winter, as he didn't want another car taking up driveway space, so I ended up trading it towards a Jeep Cherokee Limited ('89 2-door). That was fun for a while, and good in the snow, but I got the bug for a sports car again, and when we temporarily moved to PA I ended up with a new '08 Mazda RX-8. I absolutely loved driving that thing, but hated filling up the gas tank. We ended up moving back to CT about 2 years later, and due to some financial circumstances, I ended up selling the RX-8 to help with the move. Around that time, my brother had gotten an '06 (or somewhere around that year) BMW 3-series convertible, and I got the itch for a convertible. I had an opportunity to get a silver M3 convertible (I think it was a 2001) for a good price but I decided to try out a red 3-series (not an M3) that caught my eye, and when I returned from the test drive I parked it, and saw a pool of antifreeze (if memory serves), which got me a bit nervous about BMW reliability (I know, one incident means nothing). I ended up getting a black '02 Lexus SC430, which I'm still driving today. I really like the styling of it, and the reliability has been excellent, but it doesn't handle at all like a sports car. I really miss the handling (and manual transmission) of my RX-8. Also, every winter I find myself thinking to myself that I should have an AWD car.

So here I am thinking about the Z4. My main concerns with the Z4 are: 1) Reliability, and 2) Should I really get another RWD car?

FWIW, I get by with my current RWD SC430 during the winter by putting some weight in the trunk and simply avoid driving it in the snow if at all possible (which is actually easy for me to manage as I work remotely out of my home, and only occasionally drive in to the office in PA). I've thought about trying to have my cake and eat it by getting something like an Audi TT AWD or BMW 3-series w/AWD. The Subaru WRX doesn't really do anything for me. I'd prefer a convertible, so that pretty much leaves the Audi TT. But then I think, hey, it's only a couple months out of the year that I really need to worry about snow, and even then, I can usually avoid having to drive in it thanks to my work situation, so should I really limit my options? Plus, I could improve things further by getting snow tires.

So what's the general consensus regarding Z4 reliability? Any other thoughts or words of wisdom that anyone cares to impart (especially if you have any direct experience with the Lexus SC430 or Mazda RX-8), would be greatly appreciated.

[dubsesd]

What kind of z4 are you looking at?

[CT-Scott]

Original body style (both so as to keep costs down but also because I think I prefer the look of it). Manual transmission. 90% certain I want to go with a convertible.

As for engine type, I don't know that I care that much. I care most about the handling and less about acceleration, partly because I live in a fairly rural, but well-to-do town, with a low crime rate where there are too many police who have nothing else to do but pull people over for driving a little too fast. So I've grown accustomed to driving fairly slow much of the time. It's quite torturous living here, in that respect and, in all honesty, I sometimes wonder if I should even waste my time thinking about getting a sports car while I'm living here. I do travel from CT to PA for work every so often, so I can get my car up to speed on the highway.

Having said that, I'm not necessarily looking to *avoid* one of the higher-performance Z4's, unless there are compelling reasons to do so (e.g., significantly better reliability or gas mileage). I like tighter handling and hate loose power steering and boat-like shocks, so if the lower-powered engines also come with significantly "softer" handling, then I guess I'd prefer the higher performance version.

Please do educate me on what the pros/cons of the various Z4 models/engines are.

Anyway, I did spot an '07 Z4 3.0si online that looks quite beautiful:


Are those wheels/brakes stock or does this look like a custom mod? The wheels appear to have a BMW logo on them, and the style looks like the stock wheels I've seen on several Z4's, but these are the only ones I've ever seen that are black.

[mtownerman]

I can speak from owning 3 third gen RX-7s. I absolutely love the twin turbo rotary engine but couldn't handle the constant breakdowns. I never thought I'd get rid of my last 94 R2 but couldn't stand the cheap build quality and 4 digit repair bills. I just bought a 2006 Z4 3.0i with 128k miles. This thing is rock solid - I still amazed by the quality worksmanship. Just wish it had a little more zip. But, I'll take the naturally aspirated 6cyl over the tempermental rotary any day....don't regret it at all. Good luck with your decision

[The HACK]

Based on what you described, I'd say PASS. You're not going to match the reliability of the Lexus, and you'll continue to struggle with the RWD unless you decide to pony up and get snow tires for winter.

Don't get me wrong. I think ANYONE can live with a RWD BMW in the winter, and a well maintained BMW is as reliable as ANY car on the planet.

But it's not for you based on what you said wrt to the MR. 2 and the RX-8 and SC430.

[donoman]

I can't speak to driving in the snow with a RWD because I'm in California but I've found my Z4 2.5i to be very reliable and easy to work on. I bought it because I wanted to save gas and I got a 5 speed to make it more fun. (I was coming from an E39M5) It's not as hard edged as the ///M, but it's still fun to drive. I actually prefer it driving to get groceries or just quick jaunts around the neighborhood. It's less of a production.

I did not know much about the differences of the 2.5i vs. 3.0i but now I know. The 3.0 has a lot more torque and comes with a 6speed that saves you gas on the freeway. However, I've always felt that the smaller motors were more reliable and I do think I can get better MPG in the city in the 2.5i. On the freeway, I can get 27mpg in the 2.5i and I think the 3.0 can do 30mpg. But most of my driving is mixed.

The one thing you might want to consider is that there were significant changes in 2006 that are worthwhile if your budget allows. I've been very happy with my '03 but I had very few expectations from my 2.5i:

-Stick shift
-Good gas mileage
-Good handling
-Comfortable
-Fun

My car doesn't have navigation, it doesn't have Xenon's, it doesn't have a sport button, but it's damn fun still. Compared to the ///M it was MUCH cheaper and has been a great car for the 1.5 years that I have had it. I think you should get one and make sure you get the heated seats for those winter months.

[Pheonix]

The Z can't serve as your only vehicle in Connecticut! I used to live in Central Connecticut (Kensington/Berlin) and my MCoupe was scary to drive when it rained really hard (even with good tires). Forget about the winter even with winter tires! The weather and roads are too harsh for such a nice car.
I strongly recommend getting a winter beater if you must have the Z4.

[CT-Scott]

Let me clarify some more about my winter situation...I'm married and my wife drives a 2010 Highlander. She often works from home herself, especially in the winter. My daughter is also turning 16 this year, and while I would be more than happy to save myself the money and stress and make her wait another year to get her license, I have a feeling that isn't going to happen. So, we may even end up having a 3rd car by the time this winter rolls around (certainly in time for next winter). My wife is thinking we would get it as our own 3rd car in our name and just "allow" our daughter to drive it (I believe her thinking is that if there are issues we take away the privilege without getting into an argument over whether it's "her" car). Of course, my wife is a safety nut and wants it to be AWD (yeesh). Lastly, on the weather subject...I work out of my home and occasionally travel to PA, and if one of my trips happens to fall in the winter during a dicey week, I can always take the train.

Having said that...I've posted about this in another BMW forum as well, and while I haven't gotten a ton of replies, the opinions are all over the board regarding whether the Z4 is serviceable in the winter (especially when equipped with winter tires).

Since most of my driving will be local driving, how does the city driving MPG differ amongst the various Z4 models/engines?

[yousefnjr]

City-driven M roadster here, 16.4 mpg

FPG (fun per gallon) is way high though

[pungo]

You should probably stick with Japanese cars with your long history with them and since you're concerned with reliability.

[Jstic]

As a fellow resident of CT, I would say buy it. Not a great car in winter, I store mine from Nov. - April. But if you have a backup vehicle to use, it's not that big of a deal. One of the reasons I don't like driving a sports car in winter in CT is because of all the potholes and lousy roads that develop and aren't patched until spring. It's very low to the ground.

The pluses far outweigh the negatives IMHO.

[Pheonix]

Originally Posted by CT-Scott

Let me clarify some more about my winter situation...I'm married and my wife drives a 2010 Highlander. She often works from home herself, especially in the winter. My daughter is also turning 16 this year, and while I would be more than happy to save myself the money and stress and make her wait another year to get her license, I have a feeling that isn't going to happen. So, we may even end up having a 3rd car by the time this winter rolls around (certainly in time for next winter). My wife is thinking we would get it as our own 3rd car in our name and just "allow" our daughter to drive it (I believe her thinking is that if there are issues we take away the privilege without getting into an argument over whether it's "her" car). Of course, my wife is a safety nut and wants it to be AWD (yeesh). Lastly, on the weather subject...I work out of my home and occasionally travel to PA, and if one of my trips happens to fall in the winter during a dicey week, I can always take the train.

Having said that...I've posted about this in another BMW forum as well, and while I haven't gotten a ton of replies, the opinions are all over the board regarding whether the Z4 is serviceable in the winter (especially when equipped with winter tires).

Since most of my driving will be local driving, how does the city driving MPG differ amongst the various Z4 models/engines?

In this case, I would say go for it! However, as other members mentioned, you are not going to get the same level of reliabiliies compared to other Japanese cars. It might not always bug be prepared to cough up some cash for repair/service. Sorry to say this but "gotta pay to play"
As far as gas mileage, I would not worry about it since you wont be driving a lot.
In the end, only you could decide what best for you. I would recommend test drive them all and go from there. Check your local Connecticut BMW CCA website for meets and get together. There are quite a few members with Z cars in CT.
good luck

[Tallest]

Get Z4M. Sounds like you may not be into it for too long, but the Z4M COupe will give you a manual, good performance and what seems to me an appreciation in value. SO when you are tired of it and wanna sell (if) then you might get some money back. The clown shoe thing is a classic I reckon. Many say so. Limited run etc. Roadster is dime a dozen.

but on the cheap / get the 2.5i manual with basic black interior, Msport seat and steering if you can and just enjoy the soundtrack and the punch. Its not hugely quick but it will do in manual trim nicely.

So basically go proper Coupe M car and hope for good residual, or a nicely depreciated bottom of the ladder roadster with manual. That's what I'd do.

[donoman]

Originally Posted by Malbolge

Get Z4M. Sounds like you may not be into it for too long, but the Z4M COupe will give you a manual, good performance and what seems to me an appreciation in value. SO when you are tired of it and wanna sell (if) then you might get some money back. The clown shoe thing is a classic I reckon. Many say so. Limited run etc. Roadster is dime a dozen.

but on the cheap / get the 2.5i manual with basic black interior, Msport seat and steering if you can and just enjoy the soundtrack and the punch. Its not hugely quick but it will do in manual trim nicely.

So basically go proper Coupe M car and hope for good residual, or a nicely depreciated bottom of the ladder roadster with manual. That's what I'd do.

Gotta agree with this guy! Have both a Z4MC and a 2.5i (5sp)!!! I fear the M's reliability but the 2.5i has been great to me for over a year (aside from a few maintenance issues in the beginning that needed to be done anyway).

[CT-Scott]

Thanks for the additional comments. I do love the look of the coupe, but I think I'm still a bit drawn to the idea of having a convertible. I'll have to mull that over a bit more. Of course, the coupes are harder to come by, anyway.

So does no one have any thoughts on those black wheels from the pic I posted? Are those stock?

[KLH]

"So does no one have any thoughts on those black wheels from the pic I posted? Are those stock?"

The wheels are Style 108's. They're OEM generally found on '06 & '07 3.0si's.

They come from the factory with the centers painted silver, apparently, someone thought they'd look better with the centers painted black.

[unluky]

I would not want this car as my only car, for sure. We do not get a lot of bad weather around here, but enough it would be a pain to ONLY have this car for sure.

[VitaminT]

I can't speak for this car in winter weather since it only snows once per 3-4 years here but my M roadster has been flawless as a daily drive over the past 5 years and about 67k. Cup holders are prone to break ($30 or so to fix) but other than those it has been a rock with just scheduled maintenance.

I would buy the 2.5i, 3.0i or 3.0si over the M if maintenance costs are a concern as it is quite a bit more expensive to own and operate. With that said it is an unbelievable machine and I can't imagine it any other way.

[funkle]

I also had an MR2, A '92 bought new in CO. And I also spun mine quite a few times in CO, and in CT after I moved there. A very tail happy car for sure, but only if you did the wrong things - no letting off the gas in a corner. I actually really enjoyed driving that car in the snow (with snow tires). I remember some ice storm days where anyone with an auto couldn't go anywhere, but I was able to apply power gently enough with my manual to limp along.

I will say that my e46 330i had marvelous traction/stability control. I never drove it in the snow, but it felt invincible in the rain, and I always felt that it would do very well in the snow with good snow tires. I've heard others confirm this. Zs are a bit more tail happy, but the 3s I've had (e36 & e46) had zero tail-hapyness. (not addressing reliability) I'd look at a 3series convertible as a better all season solution.

[Tallest]

lived with my coupe in winter weather. seemed fine. got bit bigger tyres 225/45 as opposed to 225/40 for 18s, and with some rub on big bumps, otherwise very nicely for snowy roads. had spikes btw. so my coupe is an all year driver.

[jdoublehcubed]

I had a TT for about 3 years before the Z4, reliability of the Audi turbocharged engine is terrible. It will always work well enough to get you somewhere, and it will never work well enough to go more than month without a check engine light. It was constantly replacing stuff on that car, it was miserable.

The Z4 is in a different league, in terms of reliability and engine quality, sportiness, and even interior quality.

[CT-Scott]

Thanks everyone for the comments. Keep 'em coming! I injured my thumb this weekend. I was slicing some potatoes on the mandolin for my wife to make a potato au gratin, and ended up slicing a chunk of my right thumb off. I was hoping to maybe get out to a local dealer who had a used Z4 that I would like to test drive, but that set me back a little bit. Still hoping to make it happen while they've still got it in stock.

Originally Posted by funkle

I will say that my e46 330i had marvelous traction/stability control. I never drove it in the snow, but it felt invincible in the rain, and I always felt that it would do very well in the snow with good snow tires. I've heard others confirm this. Zs are a bit more tail happy, but the 3s I've had (e36 & e46) had zero tail-hapyness. (not addressing reliability) I'd look at a 3series convertible as a better all season solution.

Welp, two other cars on my list are a 3-series convertible ('07 or newer with the convertible hardtop) or a 3-series coupe w/AWD. Both would have to have MT, of course. Neither excite me as much as the Z4, though (if they made a 3-series hardtop convertible w/AWD and MT, that would probably be at the top of my list, though). That said, I haven't had a chance to test driven any of the three, yet.

One more question for everyone...so what's the Z4 enthusiast's thinking about the newest-gen Z4 (hardtop convertible)? My SC430's convertible hardtop is certainly a plus - everything is pretty quiet when driving on the highway. But just looking at the newer Z4's, they definitely look more like a "luxury" car to me compared to the older models which look more like a "sports car". I haven't looked into them too deeply, but I think BMW started moving towards turbo engines, too, which actually make me a little nervous in terms of reliability, and my wife's old Mazda CX-7 had a turbo and I didn't care for the turbo lag. Most of the newer Z4's are above the price range I'd like to spend, anyway, but I was curious to hear what some of you guys think about them.