euro headers w/no tune or relocation

ZStig · 07-01-2011, 08:00 PM

While I'm waiting for my supercharger, can I install my euro headers and only connect the 02 sensors that there's room for? Not even connect the EGT or the secondary 02 sensors?

Or is the car going to run rich and like crap until the ess tune takes care of that? Do I still need to hack in the EGT sensor somewhere into the stock section one?

ZStig · 07-01-2011, 09:01 PM

guess I'll find out tomorrow...

inTgr8r · 07-01-2011, 09:08 PM

I think Chris ran his w/o the rears for a while before doing the relocate.

ZStig · 07-01-2011, 11:04 PM

You thing the lack of EGT will give me troubles?

ZStig · 07-01-2011, 11:10 PM

not my hands

ZStig · 07-02-2011, 09:53 AM

Car is running fine, maybe a little rich. Sounds stock at idle, more raspy by free revving, and for sounds like I MAY have a small rattle somewhere but it could just be the way the headers sound. For some reason the sound overall is a higher tone, not deeper. Feel the power addition a little bit, but nothing substantial

johanness · 07-02-2011, 02:05 PM

Wait till it works in. Power will definitely be there. Also, yeah. That's the sound. Get used to it.

Makes me scratch my head if that's the way OEM Euro Z4M's sound. That or their section 1 cats have a higher cell count (thus absorbs more rasp)

ZStig · 07-02-2011, 02:10 PM

well for now, I gotta sort of my rear wheel with the manufacturer, I won't give details unless they fail to replace or repair it asap. Car is sitting.... : /

MPOWER78 · 07-02-2011, 02:34 PM

what x-pipe do you have o.e. or aftermarket..

ZStig · 07-02-2011, 03:23 PM

stock mufflers and x-pipe. the rasp is pretty minor, not annoying at all. But then again I only drove it 5 minutes

johanness · 07-02-2011, 05:40 PM

Oh my bad. The rasp is definitely more pronounced with my SS X pipe. Stock would help eliminate quite a bit

ZStig · 07-02-2011, 10:48 PM

I wonder if the job was done right, because it almost sounds like an exhaust leak. I'll post vids sometime soon. Overall I'm not too impressed with the sound

iPhoneEngineer · 07-03-2011, 01:26 AM

Funny, I just installed my Active Autowerke Gen IV headers today too! These have all five bungs, and I also have the ESS N/A tune for Euro headers handy.

I too have only driven the car for one heat cycle so I can retorque the nuts at the head, but even though I used all new hardware and gaskets, I'm also hearing a note that is more reminiscent of an exhaust leak than throaty awesomeness. I took some pre-install videos and will repeat them on my commute on Tuesday (grueling mountain road).

ZStig · 07-03-2011, 11:57 AM

heh, misery loves company

Jumbosock · 07-03-2011, 05:17 PM

It makes sense that it is raspier (and not deeper) with the euro headers. When I bought my Z4m I was actually shocked at the lack of rasp. I was used to the OEM raspiness of the E46 M3.

As far as not hooking up the EGT sensor and the post cat O2s... any issues will take a few miles to show up. So even if the car felt a tad faster initially, it might get bogged down with the non-signals. If you did have the EGT and post cat sensors in place it would get faster after some driving. In this case I bet you'll get slower. I doubt you'll go into limp mode.

Jumbosock · 07-03-2011, 05:21 PM

Leaks: You'll be able to see a leak after a while from the carbon buildup. Just give it a good visual after a while. Sometimes it's just getting used to the different sounds that a non-catted exhaust manifold makes. Those cats really muffle things down. Did you guys buy new gaskets for everything? What about the copper nuts? You really should buy all new gaskets and nuts for a header swap as they are one time use.

iPhoneEngineer · 07-03-2011, 05:59 PM

Update:

- I did use all new hardware and gaskets.
- I retorqued the header-head nuts this morning after yesterday's drive that got the engine up to operating oil temperature.
- I also installed the Euro Header version of the ESS tune.

The resulting sound today is far better. Notably more rasp but only in that 2,800-3,500 range where VANOS starts making its adjustments (or so I assume, maybe there is just an inherent system resonance). Overall very happy with the sound and it's clear that before the retorque there were some leaks (though I didn't run it long enough for buildup to occur).

Performance is probably somewhat better but the ECU is still relearning.

Roffle, let us know if retorquing yields a more agreeable sound...

Beedub · 07-03-2011, 06:18 PM

arhh tom, the more we mess with these cars the more they protest.

ZStig · 07-04-2011, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iPhoneEngineer

Update:

- I did use all new hardware and gaskets.
- I retorqued the header-head nuts this morning after yesterday's drive that got the engine up to operating oil temperature.
- I also installed the Euro Header version of the ESS tune.

The resulting sound today is far better. Notably more rasp but only in that 2,800-3,500 range where VANOS starts making its adjustments (or so I assume, maybe there is just an inherent system resonance). Overall very happy with the sound and it's clear that before the retorque there were some leaks (though I didn't run it long enough for buildup to occur).

Performance is probably somewhat better but the ECU is still relearning.

Roffle, let us know if retorquing yields a more agreeable sound...

Will do. For now, I'm stuck waiting for the wheel manufacturer to pony up on my warranty

ZStig · 07-04-2011, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beedub

arhh tom, the more we mess with these cars the more they protest.

ain't that the truth... Unfortunately my girlfriend knows this too, and will always have the right to say "I told you so"

inTgr8r · 07-05-2011, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iPhoneEngineer

Update:

- I did use all new hardware and gaskets.
- I retorqued the header-head nuts this morning after yesterday's drive that got the engine up to operating oil temperature.
- I also installed the Euro Header version of the ESS tune.

The resulting sound today is far better. Notably more rasp but only in that 2,800-3,500 range where VANOS starts making its adjustments (or so I assume, maybe there is just an inherent system resonance). Overall very happy with the sound and it's clear that before the retorque there were some leaks (though I didn't run it long enough for buildup to occur).
...

good to hear.

I'm still waffling on this mod.
I have a set of Euro's on the way but may sell them if the sound gets to me.
I want the added performance but really am not a fan of rasp at all.

ZStig · 07-05-2011, 08:22 AM

Iphone, you UPGRADED to new gaskets or you already had them in? Also, when's the ETA for your VT2-500 parts? I'm still waiting on an update on mine

07-01-2011, 08:00 PM	#1
ZStig instagram 997turbotom 279 Rep 7,376 Posts Drives: Interlagos Z4MR Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Delray Beach, FL iTrader: (4)	euro headers w/no tune or relocation While I'm waiting for my supercharger, can I install my euro headers and only connect the 02 sensors that there's room for? Not even connect the EGT or the secondary 02 sensors? Or is the car going to run rich and like crap until the ess tune takes care of that? Do I still need to hack in the EGT sensor somewhere into the stock section one? __________________
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07-01-2011, 09:01 PM	#2
ZStig instagram 997turbotom 279 Rep 7,376 Posts Drives: Interlagos Z4MR Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Delray Beach, FL iTrader: (4)	guess I'll find out tomorrow... __________________
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07-01-2011, 09:08 PM	#3
inTgr8r Lieutenant General 2426 Rep 11,667 Posts Drives: M2 Comp Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Toronto iTrader: (10)	I think Chris ran his w/o the rears for a while before doing the relocate. __________________ '21 M2C Hockenheim Silver '18 718 Cayman S Lava Orange (sold) '13 E92 M3 Santorini Blue (sold) '07 Z4 M Coupe Alpine White (sold)
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07-01-2011, 11:04 PM	#4
ZStig instagram 997turbotom 279 Rep 7,376 Posts Drives: Interlagos Z4MR Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Delray Beach, FL iTrader: (4)	You thing the lack of EGT will give me troubles? __________________
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07-01-2011, 11:10 PM	#5
ZStig instagram 997turbotom 279 Rep 7,376 Posts Drives: Interlagos Z4MR Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Delray Beach, FL iTrader: (4)	not my hands __________________
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07-02-2011, 09:53 AM	#6
ZStig instagram 997turbotom 279 Rep 7,376 Posts Drives: Interlagos Z4MR Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Delray Beach, FL iTrader: (4)	Car is running fine, maybe a little rich. Sounds stock at idle, more raspy by free revving, and for sounds like I MAY have a small rattle somewhere but it could just be the way the headers sound. For some reason the sound overall is a higher tone, not deeper. Feel the power addition a little bit, but nothing substantial __________________
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07-02-2011, 02:05 PM	#7
johanness Banned 56 Rep 1,739 Posts Drives: 2008 Z4MC Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Seattle, Vancouver iTrader: (3) Garage List 2008 BMW Z4M COUPE [7.00] 2012 BMW X1 xDrive 28i [9.00]	Wait till it works in. Power will definitely be there. Also, yeah. That's the sound. Get used to it. Makes me scratch my head if that's the way OEM Euro Z4M's sound. That or their section 1 cats have a higher cell count (thus absorbs more rasp)
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07-02-2011, 02:10 PM	#8
ZStig instagram 997turbotom 279 Rep 7,376 Posts Drives: Interlagos Z4MR Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Delray Beach, FL iTrader: (4)	well for now, I gotta sort of my rear wheel with the manufacturer, I won't give details unless they fail to replace or repair it asap. Car is sitting.... : / __________________
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07-02-2011, 02:34 PM	#9
MPOWER78 Private First Class 7 Rep 132 Posts Drives: 08 /// M Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Chicago iTrader: (4)	what x-pipe do you have o.e. or aftermarket.. __________________ euro headers <> gruppe m <> ac schitzer strut bar <> arqray mfflers <>
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07-02-2011, 03:23 PM	#10
ZStig instagram 997turbotom 279 Rep 7,376 Posts Drives: Interlagos Z4MR Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Delray Beach, FL iTrader: (4)	stock mufflers and x-pipe. the rasp is pretty minor, not annoying at all. But then again I only drove it 5 minutes __________________
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07-02-2011, 05:40 PM	#11
johanness Banned 56 Rep 1,739 Posts Drives: 2008 Z4MC Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Seattle, Vancouver iTrader: (3) Garage List 2008 BMW Z4M COUPE [7.00] 2012 BMW X1 xDrive 28i [9.00]	Oh my bad. The rasp is definitely more pronounced with my SS X pipe. Stock would help eliminate quite a bit
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07-02-2011, 10:48 PM	#12
ZStig instagram 997turbotom 279 Rep 7,376 Posts Drives: Interlagos Z4MR Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Delray Beach, FL iTrader: (4)	I wonder if the job was done right, because it almost sounds like an exhaust leak. I'll post vids sometime soon. Overall I'm not too impressed with the sound __________________
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07-03-2011, 01:26 AM	#13
iPhoneEngineer Lieutenant 43 Rep 476 Posts Drives: 2007 BMW Z4 M Coupe Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: La Honda, CA iTrader: (2)	Funny, I just installed my Active Autowerke Gen IV headers today too! These have all five bungs, and I also have the ESS N/A tune for Euro headers handy. I too have only driven the car for one heat cycle so I can retorque the nuts at the head, but even though I used all new hardware and gaskets, I'm also hearing a note that is more reminiscent of an exhaust leak than throaty awesomeness. I took some pre-install videos and will repeat them on my commute on Tuesday (grueling mountain road).
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07-03-2011, 11:57 AM	#14
ZStig instagram 997turbotom 279 Rep 7,376 Posts Drives: Interlagos Z4MR Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Delray Beach, FL iTrader: (4)	heh, misery loves company __________________
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07-03-2011, 05:17 PM	#15
Jumbosock Captain 76 Rep 987 Posts Drives: 2007 M coupe Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: San Diego iTrader: (0)	It makes sense that it is raspier (and not deeper) with the euro headers. When I bought my Z4m I was actually shocked at the lack of rasp. I was used to the OEM raspiness of the E46 M3. As far as not hooking up the EGT sensor and the post cat O2s... any issues will take a few miles to show up. So even if the car felt a tad faster initially, it might get bogged down with the non-signals. If you did have the EGT and post cat sensors in place it would get faster after some driving. In this case I bet you'll get slower. I doubt you'll go into limp mode.
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07-03-2011, 05:21 PM	#16
Jumbosock Captain 76 Rep 987 Posts Drives: 2007 M coupe Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: San Diego iTrader: (0)	Leaks: You'll be able to see a leak after a while from the carbon buildup. Just give it a good visual after a while. Sometimes it's just getting used to the different sounds that a non-catted exhaust manifold makes. Those cats really muffle things down. Did you guys buy new gaskets for everything? What about the copper nuts? You really should buy all new gaskets and nuts for a header swap as they are one time use.
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07-03-2011, 05:59 PM	#17
iPhoneEngineer Lieutenant 43 Rep 476 Posts Drives: 2007 BMW Z4 M Coupe Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: La Honda, CA iTrader: (2)	Update: - I did use all new hardware and gaskets. - I retorqued the header-head nuts this morning after yesterday's drive that got the engine up to operating oil temperature. - I also installed the Euro Header version of the ESS tune. The resulting sound today is far better. Notably more rasp but only in that 2,800-3,500 range where VANOS starts making its adjustments (or so I assume, maybe there is just an inherent system resonance). Overall very happy with the sound and it's clear that before the retorque there were some leaks (though I didn't run it long enough for buildup to occur). Performance is probably somewhat better but the ECU is still relearning. Roffle, let us know if retorquing yields a more agreeable sound...
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07-03-2011, 06:18 PM	#18
Beedub Major General 423 Rep 5,327 Posts Drives: 2007 Z4 M roadster vt2-500 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	arhh tom, the more we mess with these cars the more they protest. __________________ Z4MR VT2 - Clubsport build. Multi award winning Detailing \| Wrap \| PPF specialists UK based - www.topwrapz.com
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07-05-2011, 08:22 AM	#22
ZStig instagram 997turbotom 279 Rep 7,376 Posts Drives: Interlagos Z4MR Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Delray Beach, FL iTrader: (4)	Iphone, you UPGRADED to new gaskets or you already had them in? Also, when's the ETA for your VT2-500 parts? I'm still waiting on an update on mine __________________
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