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      10-28-2010, 10:15 PM   #1
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Stud / Lug Question

I'm thinking about doing a stud conversion and started looking at different open lug options. It seems like the Muteki open lugs are the popular choice. Besides the different color/finishes that are available, is the only other advantage to these lugs that they come with splines (and key/adapter) and thus:

Muteki Open Lugs

a) it's somewhat of a theft deterrent
- not really because any Muteki key I'd presume would work?
b) it protects the wheels from scratches by avoiding the need to use a large socket?


Is there anything else that I'm missing? It seems like I'm better off purchasing generic open end lugs and a set of locks separately, like the package below? Can anyone confirm?

Gorilla (generic) Open Lugs

Gorilla wheel locks
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      10-28-2010, 10:28 PM   #2
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Interested in this as well. Also, are there any benefits to a stud conversion besides making it easier to change wheels? Are studs more or less strong? I know Loctite is used to secure them, but is there a risk of them losing torque as the nuts are removed?
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      10-28-2010, 10:48 PM   #3
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hehe, glad I can kinda chime in on this
Coming from a "tuned up" MR2, I know that stud + lug nuts setup is actually REQUIRED for upper-level racing. I heard that it actually is a safer way of securing wheels to the hub. I forget the exact details, but I heard this from a tuning guru who has participated in many auto-x competitions and some trackwork too. Perhaps this rule/requirement to have studs and lug nuts pertains only to upper-level auto-x, I'm not particularly sure, but the explanation he gave me at the time made sense. He said something about a lug bolt not being able to hold torque as well as a lug nut

As for the open lug nut, one other advantage I see is that if you have a deep enough socket/key, you could technically still secure the lug nut onto an otherwise extended stud. i.e. maybe the lug nut is recessed into the wheel bolt holes, and some of the stud protrudes out beyond the lug nut, etc.
I personally had extended Volk duralug nuts, and the reason for the extended ones was due to the fact that I put extended studs on in case I needed to use spacers, etc. and I needed to make sure that the lug nuts would fit regardless of what setup I ended up using. If I had gone with the no-spacer setup, the studs would stick out quite a bit, and with a non-extended closed lug nut, the lug may bottom out before actually securing the wheel on, etc.

This picture kinda shows what I'm talking about. The case that if the studs come out farther than the lug nut itself:
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      10-29-2010, 06:02 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfanatic325 View Post
As for the open lug nut, one other advantage I see is that if you have a deep enough socket/key, you could technically still secure the lug nut onto an otherwise extended stud. i.e. maybe the lug nut is recessed into the wheel bolt holes, and some of the stud protrudes out beyond the lug nut, etc.
I personally had extended Volk duralug nuts, and the reason for the extended ones was due to the fact that I put extended studs on in case I needed to use spacers, etc. and I needed to make sure that the lug nuts would fit regardless of what setup I ended up using. If I had gone with the no-spacer setup, the studs would stick out quite a bit, and with a non-extended closed lug nut, the lug may bottom out before actually securing the wheel on, etc.
I sorta get what you're saying but wouldn't any open lug nut work for extended studs?

I'll most likely be going with a 75mm (extended) stub so I know what you mean about the studs sticking out far without the use of spacers - I'll only be using spacers in the rear and even that will only be 5mm thick. So you're saying bet open tuner lugs vs generic open lugs is that the tuner ones will be longer, so the studs won't stick out as far? But functionally they're both the same?
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      10-29-2010, 06:20 AM   #5
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I'm using Kics R-40 extended open nuts.
I really like these with the floating collars.
They torque down really nicely (smooth & constant) and there is less abrasion on the wheel seats.

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      10-29-2010, 08:51 AM   #6
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^ as you can tell by my post, I'm new to open lugs. Can you explain what's in the pic above? Obviously I see the key/adapter on the very top. The 5 gold pieces in the middle are the extended open lugs, so what are the 10 black pieces?
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      10-29-2010, 08:55 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubbedown View Post
^ as you can tell by my post, I'm new to open lugs. Can you explain what's in the pic above? Obviously I see the key/adapter on the very top. The 5 gold pieces in the middle are the extended open lugs, so what are the 10 black pieces?
im assuming the black pieces are the rest of the lug nuts?
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      10-29-2010, 09:01 AM   #8
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^ yes, they're just stuck in the foam vertically.
There's 5 more that you can't see under the horizontal ones.
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      10-29-2010, 09:23 AM   #9
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gotcha, 10 extended lugs with 10 lug nuts. I always assumed they were 1 piece... makes sense
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      10-29-2010, 10:15 AM   #10
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^correct.
I got the studs from Turner.
One other good feature is that the studs are hardened & much stronger than the OE bolts.
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      10-29-2010, 10:18 AM   #11
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The "tuner" lugs from what I know actually insert the key into the center of the lug itself. So those are also "open", but are limited by the depth of the wheel lug hole AND the length of the hub studs. If the studs are too long, and the wheel lug hole is pretty deep, then you'll end up not being able to snug the lug nut up to the wheel securely. This happened to me once with a "tuner" style lug nut.
However, with any spline style, there's no such issue. At least, I haven't had any issues with spline styles in terms of "limiting factors" as long as you get open-center ones.
Just make sure you get quality lugs and/or keys. There are plenty spline style lug kits made in Asia, and the keys are really weak/brittle. If a lug happens to be overtightened, the key will shear off when you try to break loose the lug(s). Not a very pleasant thing to happen
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      10-29-2010, 11:48 AM   #12
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hmm, so will the lug lock I linked in my first post (last link) work with extended lugs?
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      10-29-2010, 12:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubbedown View Post
hmm, so will the lug lock I linked in my first post (last link) work with extended lugs?


as long as they are 1.5 id wager yah...
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      10-29-2010, 12:55 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dorifto88 View Post
as long as they are 1.5 id wager yah...
Great, just put in an order for Muteki extended open lugs, comes with 20 but I'll only use 16 since I'll use the Gorilla locks as well.
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      10-29-2010, 01:09 PM   #15
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The last time I tried a stud conversion on a BMW was for my E46 325. I probably didn't use enough thread locker or didn't tighten the studs enough initially, so it eventually began to cause a ticking noise when the wheels are rotating. I didn't want to take any chances, so I reverted back to lug bolts. But I'm sure if you buy high quality studs and make sure to install them properly, there should be no issues
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      10-29-2010, 01:27 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfanatic325 View Post
The last time I tried a stud conversion on a BMW was for my E46 325. I probably didn't use enough thread locker or didn't tighten the studs enough initially, so it eventually began to cause a ticking noise when the wheels are rotating. I didn't want to take any chances, so I reverted back to lug bolts. But I'm sure if you buy high quality studs and make sure to install them properly, there should be no issues
I was going to go with the MS stud kit but $150 seemed pricey. So I got the ones offered by Bimmerworld which was reviewed by a fellow member here:

http://www.zpost.com/forums/showpost...7&postcount=24
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      10-29-2010, 03:30 PM   #17
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meant to ask about them when you were here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by inTgr8r View Post
I'm using Kics R-40 extended open nuts.
I really like these with the floating collars.
They torque down really nicely (smooth & constant) and there is less abrasion on the wheel seats.

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      10-29-2010, 08:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inTgr8r View Post
I'm using Kics R-40 extended open nuts.
I really like these with the floating collars.
They torque down really nicely (smooth & constant) and there is less abrasion on the wheel seats.

Good lord, $250 for a set of lug nuts?
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      10-29-2010, 08:37 PM   #19
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I paid about $150
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      10-29-2010, 11:54 PM   #20
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Yeah I currently have two sets of Volk extended lug nuts. They're about $150 per set as well =P

They're surprisingly lightweight. It's pretty amazing.
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      10-30-2010, 10:30 AM   #21
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I went with the Turner Motorsport studs as they have a an allen key on a bullet'ish nose. Plus Turner is a respected company with a motorsports history so hopefully the quality is good.





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      10-30-2010, 01:27 PM   #22
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Looks like those are ARP studs. You did not go wrong by getting those
ARP is known to offer very strong metal hardware for engine rebuilds, etc.
Very good stuff!
Be sure to still use some locktite on those though =]
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