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      04-22-2010, 10:13 AM   #23
onebluemcm
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For a first impression from reading this, it sounds much more like an idle control issue than anything else. Frankly, I've never heard of slight formulation changes in gasoline causing idle issues, and the S54 is not so fragile or sensitive to expect that it would be sensitive to these issues. From formerly hanging out a ton in the M3 forums, I cannot say this is a frequently reported issue with the S54 in the M3. Generally speaking, for fuel to cause engine running issues, you have to have pretty substantial changes with the fuel and it should affect drivability as well. But, I could be misinformed about just how much they change the mixtures. My first impression was that it's a problem on an engine management level with idle control....if it were me, I'd be pretty pissed at the dealer for not figuring it out on a car like these, I mean, they are supposed to be more than an oil change and tire change facility, right?

I'm curious as to what the purpose of the fuel additive is anyway? When I used to have a bunch of really high mileage fuel injected cars, I could see the point of the stuff, buy I also have come across some frightening information about how bad it can be for fuel system components as well, to the point that I'd really not run the stuff in a lower mileage, high performance vehicle. But, if it's approved by BMW, I guess it must have merit
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      04-22-2010, 10:28 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onebluemcm View Post
For a first impression from reading this, it sounds much more like an idle control issue than anything else. Frankly, I've never heard of slight formulation changes in gasoline causing idle issues, and the S54 is not so fragile or sensitive to expect that it would be sensitive to these issues. From formerly hanging out a ton in the M3 forums, I cannot say this is a frequently reported issue with the S54 in the M3. Generally speaking, for fuel to cause engine running issues, you have to have pretty substantial changes with the fuel and it should affect drivability as well. But, I could be misinformed about just how much they change the mixtures. My first impression was that it's a problem on an engine management level with idle control....if it were me, I'd be pretty pissed at the dealer for not figuring it out on a car like these, I mean, they are supposed to be more than an oil change and tire change facility, right?

I'm curious as to what the purpose of the fuel additive is anyway? When I used to have a bunch of really high mileage fuel injected cars, I could see the point of the stuff, buy I also have come across some frightening information about how bad it can be for fuel system components as well, to the point that I'd really not run the stuff in a lower mileage, high performance vehicle. But, if it's approved by BMW, I guess it must have merit
Keep in mind that the DMEs are completely different between the E46 and the E85/6 with the latter being much more advanced and sensitive.
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      04-22-2010, 11:12 AM   #25
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Agreed. I just wonder what it would be about fuel that the DME would react to? It must be on the exhaust side, messing with O2 sensors or something. Still seems like something that BMW service should be able to address. That said, when we had the Z4MC race car in Grand Am, I got the feeling that there were parts of the ECU that could not be figured out and just had to be coped with, and this was with input from people with extensive experience working with the BMW ECUs. I'm not expert by any means, but I do understand the language and general issues.
Regarding fuel, if the problem persists across several tanks of fuel from different stations, I would think this would actually somewhat rule out a gasoline problem and more implicate a persistent engine management issue, no?
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      04-22-2010, 12:12 PM   #26
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Quote:
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Regarding fuel, if the problem persists across several tanks of fuel from different stations, I would think this would actually somewhat rule out a gasoline problem and more implicate a persistent engine management issue, no?
It wouldn't rule out one aspect of fuel that is standard accross every station now -- Ethanol content.
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      04-22-2010, 01:26 PM   #27
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My M54 powered 3.0i has also done this on occasion so I started noting when it would happen to see if there was some sort of common thread. Come to find out it would happen mostly when I'd visit certain gas stations, so I've come to believe that it is fuel related as well. It almost feels like a misfire, or crosstalk between plug wires which is obviously unlikely in a coil-on-plug design like the BMW.
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      04-22-2010, 01:31 PM   #28
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I guess I just never realized ethanol could have such a strong effect. I'm curious to see if this rears it's ugly head in my car as I drive it more this summer.
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      04-22-2010, 03:03 PM   #29
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Facts about ethanol (specifically E10):
  • Has only a 3 month shelf-life. You should be turning over a full take at least once every 3 months.
  • Is much more susceptible to to water and moisture from high humidity.
  • Lowers MPG and is less efficient.
So given the above items, you can't exactly claim it's a slippery slope to say that E10 could cause problems in a system not specifically designed for it. Also consider that e10 exists because it is a happy medium between content and usability in non-designed-for-ethanol-applications. If ethanol was completly safe for existing engines, we would have gone up to E20 to start instead of E10. It's also been proven that some gas stations have more than the 10% allowed.

General signs of high alcohol content in fuel when run through an engine not designed for it:
  • Stalling.
  • Hesitation during WOT.
  • Smoke released from exhaust.
  • Clogged fuel filters and carburetors.
  • Damage to fuel and VRO pumps and pistons.
  • Dissolving of engine parts (especially rubber and plastic).
  • Drying-out of parts (hoses)
  • O2 sensor damage
  • etc
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      04-22-2010, 03:17 PM   #30
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^ so, how many outlets carry non E10 gas these days?
It's getting harder & harder to find.

I know in mid-east Canada (Ontario), Shell V Power is the only one.
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      04-22-2010, 03:21 PM   #31
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Quote:
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^ so, how many outlets carry non E10 gas these days?
It's getting harder & harder to find.

I know in mid-east Canada (Ontario), Shell V Power is the only one.
I can't find any in DFW.
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      04-22-2010, 08:11 PM   #32
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I believe the previous owner of my car had his lambda sensor replaced to fix up similar issues...
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      04-22-2010, 08:32 PM   #33
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I believe here in Missouri all gasoline is required to be at least 10% by state law :-(

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