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      07-16-2010, 01:58 AM   #1
Fen335i
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first engine perf/sound mod - CAI or exhaust?

Really looking for a better growl out of the z4M motor....what's the consensus for a first mod? Cold Air Intake (AFE or Gruppe M), or a rear exhaust?

Obviously I'd like to do both (eventually), but if you had to pick one, which would it be to improve the sound of the motor with the top down? I'm leaning towards CAI....as the motor sounds a little tin-like in 1st/2nd...
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      07-16-2010, 02:31 AM   #2
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lol I'm confused, your name is Fen335i, says you drive a e92 M3, and you're posting in a Z4M forum. Wish I had your garage...

CAI is what you want. The engine will sound 100% better, throttle response will be more immediate, and it will eliminate that flat spot at the top of the rev range. There's no real difference between the AFe and GruppeM. The GruppeM looks nicer, sounds a little bit nicer, and maybe performs a tiny bit better, but at almost double the price. So as far as which CAI to get, it's up to you. If money is no object, get the GruppeM.
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      07-16-2010, 12:06 PM   #3
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Hey fen, i'm also going to be doing both mods, and first i'm getting the intake, Gruppe M to be exact, but I wont be getting it for another couple months or so, So if you do end up going with Gruppe M, can you do the entire Zpost community a gigantic favor and perform a before/after dyno when you get it??
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      07-16-2010, 12:22 PM   #4
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The best growl I have ever heard out of a S54 without going full CSL, was from the GruppeM intake.

Exhaust is nice, but the deep growl and bark of the the gruppe M intake awesome.

For sound, Gruppe M hands down.
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      07-16-2010, 12:43 PM   #5
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I had this exact question and I'm going with the GruppeM as my first mod. Hopefully it's just another week away from Japan
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      07-16-2010, 05:24 PM   #6
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Thanks for the advice guys...

sounds like CAI is the way to go for the first mod...I was leaning that way, so this helps "seal the deal".

To answer some of your q's...excuse the "alias"...that was after my old 335 car that I no longer have. Yes, I drive an e92 M3...the Zed4M Roadster is my wife's...just got it about a week ago (I posted a pic on this board)
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      07-16-2010, 06:23 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fen335i View Post
Thanks for the advice guys...

sounds like CAI is the way to go for the first mod...I was leaning that way, so this helps "seal the deal".

To answer some of your q's...excuse the "alias"...that was after my old 335 car that I no longer have. Yes, I drive an e92 M3...the Zed4M Roadster is my wife's...just got it about a week ago (I posted a pic on this board)
Sounds familiar. I had a 335, got an M3, wife got a Z4Mc in March....
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      07-16-2010, 10:03 PM   #8
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I have an aFe - nothing but good comments about it.
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      07-16-2010, 11:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
Sounds familiar. I had a 335, got an M3, wife got a Z4Mc in March....
Funny....you have good taste in cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeybritches View Post
I have an aFe - nothing but good comments about it.
Thanks, sounds like a great first mod for the Z4M. Did you notice any improvement in power? I'm not anticipating much even though AFE claims about 10hp...as long as I don't lose power I'm fine with that. It just needs a little more of a deeper growl..I think this will do it. I hear it can heat soak after some hard running...but, we're not going to track this car or run it that hard, so I don't think heat soak hp losses are much of an issue for us.
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      07-17-2010, 12:54 AM   #10
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It FEELS like it adds a few horses, but I'm not sure if it actually does. It could be my right foot got heavier with the addictive sound. I don't think it loses horsepower. The heat soak hype was started when a competitor ran an aFe-equipped car repeatedly on a (stationary) dyno, hood closed, with no cool down runs, until IAT was around 140 degrees; in the real world the car is moving through the air, and a 70 mph fan can't displace the amount of air necessary to accurately simulate the car's movement. Thus, the engine air got hot and there was no cool outside air replacing it.

That test, and the fact that you can look at the stock box and see that it's already a very good design, got the anti-CAI crowd going. "Oh it loses hp?? Count me out!" I feel like I've made 5 or 6 posts defending aFe, and it's because I've found this mod to be immensely enjoyable, and it bothers me that there's so much misinformation out there keeping people from purchasing a very satisfying product. I have yet to see anyone dyno the product and lose power, other than that test I talked about above. I've seen several dynos about the intakes gaining a couple horsepower. Usually arguments evolve into something along the lines of the stock box having a ram effect and the CAI-type intakes "pulling in hot engine air," or uncertainty about the ECU being able to adapt to the increased airflow. All theoretical, very few with actual experience.

As far as sound goes, if the S54 was a guitar amp, replacing the stock intake with an aFe was like removing a blanket from in front of the speaker. It exaggerates all of the unique subtleties of the engine. Night and day difference.
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      07-17-2010, 01:46 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeybritches View Post
It FEELS like it adds a few horses, but I'm not sure if it actually does. It could be my right foot got heavier with the addictive sound. I don't think it loses horsepower. The heat soak hype was started when a competitor ran an aFe-equipped car repeatedly on a (stationary) dyno, hood closed, with no cool down runs, until IAT was around 140 degrees; in the real world the car is moving through the air, and a 70 mph fan can't displace the amount of air necessary to accurately simulate the car's movement. Thus, the engine air got hot and there was no cool outside air replacing it.

That test, and the fact that you can look at the stock box and see that it's already a very good design, got the anti-CAI crowd going. "Oh it loses hp?? Count me out!" I feel like I've made 5 or 6 posts defending aFe, and it's because I've found this mod to be immensely enjoyable, and it bothers me that there's so much misinformation out there keeping people from purchasing a very satisfying product. I have yet to see anyone dyno the product and lose power, other than that test I talked about above. I've seen several dynos about the intakes gaining a couple horsepower. Usually arguments evolve into something along the lines of the stock box having a ram effect and the CAI-type intakes "pulling in hot engine air," or uncertainty about the ECU being able to adapt to the increased airflow. All theoretical, very few with actual experience.

As far as sound goes, if the S54 was a guitar amp, replacing the stock intake with an aFe was like removing a blanket from in front of the speaker. It exaggerates all of the unique subtleties of the engine. Night and day difference.

nice post man, got me pumped to get an intake lmao, any chance you did a dyno yourself?
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      07-19-2010, 10:15 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeybritches View Post
It FEELS like it adds a few horses, but I'm not sure if it actually does. It could be my right foot got heavier with the addictive sound. I don't think it loses horsepower. The heat soak hype was started when a competitor ran an aFe-equipped car repeatedly on a (stationary) dyno, hood closed, with no cool down runs, until IAT was around 140 degrees; in the real world the car is moving through the air, and a 70 mph fan can't displace the amount of air necessary to accurately simulate the car's movement. Thus, the engine air got hot and there was no cool outside air replacing it.

That test, and the fact that you can look at the stock box and see that it's already a very good design, got the anti-CAI crowd going. "Oh it loses hp?? Count me out!" I feel like I've made 5 or 6 posts defending aFe, and it's because I've found this mod to be immensely enjoyable, and it bothers me that there's so much misinformation out there keeping people from purchasing a very satisfying product. I have yet to see anyone dyno the product and lose power, other than that test I talked about above. I've seen several dynos about the intakes gaining a couple horsepower. Usually arguments evolve into something along the lines of the stock box having a ram effect and the CAI-type intakes "pulling in hot engine air," or uncertainty about the ECU being able to adapt to the increased airflow. All theoretical, very few with actual experience.

As far as sound goes, if the S54 was a guitar amp, replacing the stock intake with an aFe was like removing a blanket from in front of the speaker. It exaggerates all of the unique subtleties of the engine. Night and day difference.
^ Seconded. GREAT post. I was one of the ones reading all those negative AfE threads and trying to find something other than Gruppe M (solely to keep cost down) that would be worth a damn. Thanks!
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      07-22-2010, 05:36 PM   #13
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No dyno yet, for several reasons. I'm not keen on spending half of what the mod cost me just to prove my point (aFe or any other vendor definitely isn't paying me for this). And, there are some that will never be satisfied with it and always dispute the results.

In the Fresno area, temps go from 60's at night to 100's during the day. If I was to do a before and after run, I'd need to be able to change out the aFe with the stock box and get it back up on the dyno pretty quickly or there will be a 5 degree difference in temperature, unless I find a dyno that's in a climate-controlled building (I haven't looked honestly). Secondly, I'd need to do several runs with both the aFe and stock box to get an honest baseline. Then, I'd have to quash the ECU adaptation argument by driving the car around with the stock box on for a week and then throwing it back on the dyno, with the stock box first and then switching out the aFe. That way both would have had a chance to go first with the ECU "adapted," and both would have had same-day, same-condition runs... all to show what I've pretty much said already - there is little change either way, though I bet it would be about +2 hp. I'm sure others will say that because the hood was open, this that and the other would be different and in real-world driving/on the track/etc. something else is different (ram air, who knows).

If anyone wants to pay for it I'd be happy to do it. aFe isn't paying me to promote their product so I'm really not keen on paying for two back to back sessions, twice, to get a result that would still be disputed. I know it sounds AWESOME, like how I think the car should sound. I'm pleased with it and haven't noticed any heat soak in the conditions I've driven the car.
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      07-22-2010, 06:28 PM   #14
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ah im dying for an intake now!! haha
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      08-06-2010, 07:00 AM   #15
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Is there a Z4 vendor here that offers great deals on parts? I am looking at getting a CAI now and don't want to pay retail if we have a prefered vendor. In the P car and my old Cobra I had vendors giving forum users 10% over cost, so any help would be appreciated.
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      08-06-2010, 03:40 PM   #16
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Anyone know if the stock E46 M3 airbox can fit in a Z4MC engine bay without modifications?
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