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      07-17-2016, 02:49 PM   #1
eHelmholtz
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Signs of Aging as my roadster (N52) turns 10.

My e85 N52 roadster now is 10 years old and she's beginning to show her age! I've got 78K miles on her now. Here are things I've had to do for her recently:

1. A few months ago, I couldn't start her intermittently; I would jump the battery and it would start or so I thought! I bought a new battery but the problem persisted. It turned out to be a failing ignition coil which I replaced with one I bought on ebay.

2. Some six months ago, my washer fluid would run out too quickly and I thought it was leaking from the reservoir but didn't bother to check until recently since I live in San Diego and there isn't much rain. It turned out to be a bad washer pump which I replaced along with the washer pump grommet a few days ago. I bought the pump for $8.50 and the grommet for $6.50 on Amazon and it was an easy replacement (much easier than the youtube videos for other BMWs); it's just a matter of removing a screw and lifting the reservoir up from the top.

3. The car developed an over heating issue a few days ago. Here's the story. My wife borrowed the car and while driving she noticed that the engine was getting hot, into the redzone! So she pulled over to let it cooled down. She drove a short distance to a train station and parked it, taking the train (it was moving towards hot but not in the red zone when she parked). When i checked on the car later that day, I noticed that the coolant was gone - I added a coolant and started the car but realized coolant leaked out when the car warmed up. I had her towed home and found this:

a. My coolant reservoir went bad with the known hairline crack issue. I replaced it along with the transmission thermostat that it connected to (this is only relevant for automatic transmission cars). The reservoir was harder to pull out than I thought. Side note: It was really hard re-install initially because the transmission thermostat was also broken but I didn't know that cos I did look on you-tube.

b. transmission thermostat was broken as above. I thought that this went bad so the car overheated and caused the hairline crack in the coolant reservoir but this was probably not it! See below. (I might have just broken it when I took the reservoir out).

So after replacing a. and b. above, the engine still got hot but coolant was no longer flowing out as above. I checked the electric water pumping using the bleeding procedure and it didn't come on so:

c. I replaced the water pump and thermostat. You tube videos were for other N52 engines and the procedure was more involved because there was not much room in those other cars. I'm happy to report that replacing the water pump and thermostat on an e85 N52 engine was really easy by comparison. I just took off the engine splash guard from the underside of the car and the water pump and thermostat were there and easy to remove. It did take 3-4 hours though! I bought the pump from Amazon for $295 and it was the exact same pump that was originally there (made by pierburg) and a thermostat by Mahle for $45 also from Amazon.

I wonder what other aging signs she will show. Has anyone else had similar problems as their car ages?

Last edited by eHelmholtz; 07-17-2016 at 02:54 PM..
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      07-20-2016, 08:51 AM   #2
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Hi e,
I think you are about par the course. The cooling system seems to be the big weakness on these cars and 10 years seems about right for things to start breaking.

I'm actually in the same boat as you; 2006 n52 just turned 85k. I'm actually planning on replacing all the coolant parts (pump, tstat, hoses, plastic crap) this summer, before they start breaking. I like this car and want to keep it so it makes sense to do it preventively - especially since aluminium doesn't like to get too hot.

If you haven't already done so, you'll probably need to replace most of the suspension bits to maintain the ride characteristics. I did my shocks, bushings, mounts last summer and it made quite a big difference.

These cars are pretty simple though, so I wouldn't worry too much!

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      07-20-2016, 03:34 PM   #3
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my 07's header gasket is cracked and leaks oil, creating smoke. I'll be replacing that as soon I pay off paying for a new top motor. argh.
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      08-01-2016, 11:11 PM   #4
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Hi gc,
Thanks for the advice about the suspension bits; I'll have to keep an eye on them.
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      10-23-2018, 04:46 PM   #5
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I've had no other issues since 2016!
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      10-23-2018, 08:44 PM   #6
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OP, you're money for diagnosing and fixing all of that yourself. Good for you.

Gas-can, I have a 128i N52 with 127k miles on it and I haven't replaced anything related to the cooling system except coolant! I did have to top it off for the first time last winter but no problems since then. I do live in frigid Canuckland and I believe that puts less heat stress on the system overall. Hopefully being less proactive than you will not come to bite me in the a** as I have heard many times about German cars and BMW's needing a very proactive maintenance schedule especially cooling systems. Very curious to do a suspension refresh like you to see what difference it makes as I suspect you're so right.

Also I am definitely playing chicken with the original water pump right now.
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      10-24-2018, 10:05 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky1 View Post

Also I am definitely playing chicken with the original water pump right now.
Me too. Pushing 118k on my '06 and everything is still original in my cooling system. All this talk of crapped out water pumps is making me nervous though.
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      10-24-2018, 10:30 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadroach View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky1 View Post

Also I am definitely playing chicken with the original water pump right now.
Me too. Pushing 118k on my '06 and everything is still original in my cooling system. All this talk of crapped out water pumps is making me nervous though.
On traditional mechanical water pumps I always hear the rule of thumb of replace around 100,000km or 62,500 miles or when replacing timing belt. So in that respect we've got our money's worth. Its just that BMW does not endorse this and ignores the electric driven water pump replacement as a scheduled maintenance item. I guess the reality is it doesn't last forever its just a little less known what the MTBF is on the N52 (probably a wide deviance between cars and environmental conditions). The N54/N55 seems to suffer more frequent early failures I've heard cited from the additional heat the pump is exposed to but it too is still hard to predict from a timing perspective I'm inferring.
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      10-24-2018, 02:13 PM   #9
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I just hit 70k on my 07 and had similar coil and washer fluid problem.

I think the belts are the next thing on my list.. i probably have to another drain and fill for coolant and atf
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      10-25-2018, 04:59 AM   #10
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I’ve spent more on my Z4MC in the 2 years that it’s only been doing 5k miles a year, then I did over the previous 4 years of 25k miles a year.

Never needed an O2 until this year, when I moved off a narrow road onto the grass to let a truck through. Unfortunately as I moved off I scraped the underneath of the car and it tore one of the post-cat O2 sensor wires out.

Decided to replace both, but they’ve been in there for 160k miles and had basically welded themselves in. Had to drill them out & re-tap the socket to fit the new sensors.

Similar issue with a lightly weeping power steering pipe...again original. Needed cutting off and a good bit of work to get the old ends out before I could fit new ones.

Then, when trying to reset the EML light from the O2 sensors, the OBD port stopped working.

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      10-25-2018, 05:01 AM   #11
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Only 36000 miles on my 2006 3.0si. One of the “benefits” of living in Canada and in a region with notoriously short summers, I suppose.
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      10-31-2018, 07:21 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huz-Z View Post
Only 36000 miles on my 2006 3.0si. One of the “benefits” of living in Canada and in a region with notoriously short summers, I suppose.
Wow! Only 36k!!! My 2008 3.0si has 46k miles now. I've put on a lot more miles since moving from NY to NC. I'll be putting on even more now that it's my daily driver. I finally got rid of my Civic and got an E92 M3 for my garage queen. 😈
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      11-10-2018, 08:04 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky1 View Post
On traditional mechanical water pumps I always hear the rule of thumb of replace around 100,000km or 62,500 miles or when replacing timing belt. So in that respect we've got our money's worth. Its just that BMW does not endorse this and ignores the electric driven water pump replacement as a scheduled maintenance item. I guess the reality is it doesn't last forever its just a little less known what the MTBF is on the N52 (probably a wide deviance between cars and environmental conditions). The N54/N55 seems to suffer more frequent early failures I've heard cited from the additional heat the pump is exposed to but it too is still hard to predict from a timing perspective I'm inferring.
I'd like to chime in on this since I've owned BMWs for 30 years and currently have, or had all three types of BMW waterpumps discussed above. Further my N52 in my E90 has 358,000 miles on it and 7 years ago I was the one who discovered the N52 shows waterpump trouble codes when scanned with a BMW scan tool. In general most manufacturers do not call for a periodic water pump replacement as preventative maintenance.

There are basically 3 types of driven water pumps used in BMWs. (1) Electric, (2) belt-driven from the engine accessory (serpentine) drive belt, and (3) belt-driven off the camshaft timing belt. The only modern BMW engine that used a camshaft belt-driven water pump was the M20 straight-6 found in the 3 and 5 series cars of the late 1970's through the early 1990's. Japanese cars have used a cam belt driven pump as a common design until recently. The periodic replacement spec for cam driven pumps is tied to cam belt changes simply for convenience and time saving while having the cam belt cover off and the belt off, the pump is easily changed. If the pump were to fail later, all the work (and cost) to replace the cam belt would be lost. The replacement spec has nothing to do with the robustness of the pump assembly itself. And really, only cam belt-driven waterpump engines have a periodic water pump replacement recommendation from the manufacturer related to the cam belt replacement requirement.

Engine accessory belt-driven water pumps are the most common design used. Most manufactures do not have a recommended replacement interval for this design. Most all belt-driven pumps of this type have a weep hole built into the pump case. The hole is there to provide a visual and olfactory signal for an impending pump failure. The weep hole design allows for a small amount of coolant to leak from the pump when the water pump shaft seal begins to leak due to wear. Once the seal begins to leak, the bearing behind the seal gets wet and eventually fails. The weep hole allows the coolant to leak with the coolant smell a tell tale sign the pump is near failure. Because these type of belt driven water pumps have this built-in failure warning, they normally do not have a periodic replacement recommendation. BMW M42 and M44 engines are notorious for failing water pumps, but due to a plastic impeller used for the original design.

The N52 electric pumps primarily fail due to heat cycling. The control electronics are packaged into the end of the pump case and get very hot. Over time the electronics fail from being over-heated and the pump begins to vary in speed, eventually stopping to turn altogether. There are trouble codes that indicate the pump is starting to fail, but unless the car is scanned with a BMW scan tool, the owner will never know the pump is failing. Worse, in the E90 there is no coolant temp gauge, so you can't see the engine is overheating (unlike the OP's wife did). So, in the E90, the engine overheats and the only indication is a yellow over-heating symbol with a immediate red over-temp warning. IMO it's a poor design for two reasons, (a) the electronics are in a intolerable environment; BMW should have remote-mounted the pump control electronics for better heat dissipation; and (b) there should be a better indication of pump failure for those cars without temperature gauges. Review the E90 Forum and the consensus is the water pumps last about 100,000 miles, but it's really environmentally based on how and where the car is driven. Mine failed at 149,000 miles on a 100 deg. F day in July. A few have gone over 200,000 miles. My Z4 N52 at 10 years and 90,000 miles has yet to show a failure code. The E90 pump is tightly packaged and the end of the pump with the electronics sits just a few inches away from the radiator and under the exhaust manifold. The Z4's engine compartment is a bit more open, which may allow the pump to stay cooler.

The N54/N55 electric pumps can fail due to the electronics over heating and because in someone's wisdom, the N54 pump uses a plastic impeller case, which cracks and leaks; another stupid design choice. The N52 pump uses an aluminum impeller case. The two pumps are not interchangeable; the N52 is a 200-watt pump and the N54 pump is 400-watts. BMW doesn't recommend a preventative maintenance replacement schedule because the pump, in theory, shouldn't fail. I'd bet outside of Forum sightings, most pumps do not fail within the life span of the original owner. MTBF calculations being what they are, it's obvious that the longer the pump is in service, the more likely it is to fail, which is the case with any machine or electronic device.

My 2 cents.

As a side note... My 2008 Z4 3.0si Coupe, which I bought used at 23,000 miles in December 2014 (now has 92K), had a cupholder break, has a noisy throwout bearing (had it when I bought it), and the little tab that closes the switch for the storage cubby light was broken (I fixed it with a small wood screw). I have the sports seats, and the driver's backrest squeaks on and off; I've not yet pulled the seat to diagnose it. Lastly, I had to replace the left HID bulb a few years ago, it was periodically failing. Not a bad service record for a BMW IMO.
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Last edited by Efthreeoh; 11-10-2018 at 08:27 AM..
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      11-27-2018, 03:26 PM   #14
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2008 3.0si Coupe here! Mine is with an auto transmission and like the e46s, my mechatronics sleeve is leaking so did a full transmission service with replacing the pan (filter built-in), fluids and also replaced the sleeve with an updated part.
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      11-27-2018, 03:56 PM   #15
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Was this easy ? mine 3.0 leaked around 40k and was cover under warranty

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2008 3.0si Coupe here! Mine is with an auto transmission and like the e46s, my mechatronics sleeve is leaking so did a full transmission service with replacing the pan (filter built-in), fluids and also replaced the sleeve with an updated part.
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      11-27-2018, 09:22 PM   #16
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It's not too bad. Having a lift would help a ton though. The process is as follows per bavauto's transmission pan and fluid change. Then you add in replacing the mech sleeve while the pan is out.

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      11-28-2018, 06:53 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
As a side note... My 2008 Z4 3.0si Coupe, which I bought used at 23,000 miles in December 2014 (now has 92K), had a cupholder break, has a noisy throwout bearing (had it when I bought it), and the little tab that closes the switch for the storage cubby light was broken (I fixed it with a small wood screw). I have the sports seats, and the driver's backrest squeaks on and off; I've not yet pulled the seat to diagnose it. Lastly, I had to replace the left HID bulb a few years ago, it was periodically failing. Not a bad service record for a BMW IMO.
Mine also has the squeaky seat, but only on the driver side, I guess because it gets more use. I recall reading on the UK forum (z4-forum.com) that this could be repaired by pulling off the plastic side panels on the seat base and tightening the bolts. I couldn't find any other details or pics on precisely how to get the panels off, so owing to that and being busy all the time, I haven't attempted a fix. I'd be interested to hear if other folks have had a go at this minor but annoying issue. Mine has the sport seat which I think are identical to the M seats, save for the leather, so a fix should be applicable to most of the cars here.
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      01-08-2020, 08:01 PM   #18
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My roadster is now 14 years old and since this thread was start a few more things have needed attention in the last few months' time.

1. My 12V battery was running low so I hooked it up to a trickle charger. However, after verifying that the battery was still good, I continued to have low battery warning. While driving down the highway, this battery warning came on again and after I exited the highway, there were all sorts of odd warning signs. Then the car just died in the middle of the street. It was towed the 1/2 mile home and I realized that the serpentine belt had come loose. The tensioner was shot with the alumium bolt holding it in place, broken. It took a bit of effort to remove it because of the broken bolt but replacing the tensioner ($48) and belt ($22) was straightforward.

2. There was a coolant leak at the coolant temperature sensor for which I bought a replacement at the local carquest for $35 but realized that all I needed was to replace the o-ring on the original for $5. Now, I have an extra unused sensor because carquest won't let me return it.

3. There was a very slow leak of oil in the car for about a year but I didn't get around to figuring it out until last month. It was the oil filter housing gasket and the oil cooler gasket that needed replacement which I was going to do but a friend suggested AT-205 resealer to rejuvenate gaskets and to my surprise it worked! so I haven't bothered to replace the gaskets.
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      01-09-2020, 10:41 AM   #19
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Congrats, minor issues.. i recently replace belt & tensioner.. belt & tensioner was on its way out, it was bent enough.
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      01-09-2020, 09:04 PM   #20
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Thanks Roranji. It's smart of you to change it before the bolt on it broke cos mine did and tensioner was harder to remove.
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      01-14-2020, 07:47 PM   #21
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Yeah.. was suppose to do it in 2018, i had the part for over a year and did past sept, lol
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