stock Cat cell count??

[Beedub]

just wondering if anyone has info on the stock Cats cell count... All info i can find seems to point to them being the same as the CSL so 200 cel....
just wondering if anyone knows for sure??

[pokeybritches]

Euro and US section 1 cats have different cell counts. Euro are higher, though I don't know what they are. I think one of the two is 400 cell.

Edit- looks like both are 200 cell.

[davesz4mc]

The US version has 4 CAT's (2 header,2 s-pipe) the Euro has 2 CAT's (2 s-pipe). Makes sense the Euro would have a higher cell count.

That would mean welding bungs into stock US s-pipe would result in higher flow than the Euro s-pipe section..!

Sorry I do not know the cell coutnts

[Beedub]

from what my dealer told me the euro pipe has 200 cell cats, we dont need to meet the emissions laws that you guys do??? Basically im trying to work out what is the weak part of the setup, from what im seeing, its not the cats!!

the CSL 100% had 200 cell cats..... from what ive been told the euro z4m uses the same design CSL headers and Spipe (with different hanging points, but uses its own design x pipe and mufflers....

wheres the evidence that the euro sytem has higher cell count cats or has this just been basically guessed?? Now the euro z4m makes more power than the usa z4ms, so if the "our" cats were more restrictive wouldnt the power be the same ;-) Just doesnt make sense, if you think about it logically....

[pokeybritches]

It does make sense if you look at it logically. First, the Euro section one cats are physically larger than the U.S. spec cats.

Second, it's true that you don't have to meet the same emissions laws... which is why we have cats in our headers. The closer you get to the engine, the hotter the exhaust gases are, and the more quickly the cats heat up. We have to worry about cold start emissions, and by placing the cats in the headers they warm up to operating temps more quickly. However, the hotter exhaust gases also have a higher velocity, and header design is arguably the most critical aspect to a good exhaust; placing cats in the headers is much more restrictive because of the higher flow. Power loss due to cats in the headers far outweigh the losses due to cats in section 1. There's a reason people pay thousands of dollars more for "quality" headers, yet they will bolt on any muffler- the headers are where a well-designed system nets the most gain.

Finally, Euro cars produce 10 more hp on paper than U.S. spec cars, yet with Euro headers a U.S. car gains 20 hp on the dyno. Why? The U.S. section 1 cats are less restrictive.

[Beedub]

Originally Posted by pokeybritches

It does make sense if you look at it logically. First, the Euro section one cats are physically larger than the U.S. spec cats.

Second, it's true that you don't have to meet the same emissions laws... which is why we have cats in our headers. The closer you get to the engine, the hotter the exhaust gases are, and the more quickly the cats heat up. We have to worry about cold start emissions, and by placing the cats in the headers they warm up to operating temps more quickly. However, the hotter exhaust gases also have a higher velocity, and header design is arguably the most critical aspect to a good exhaust; placing cats in the headers is much more restrictive because of the higher flow. Power loss due to cats in the headers far outweigh the losses due to cats in section 1. There's a reason people pay thousands of dollars more for "quality" headers, yet they will bolt on any muffler- the headers are where a well-designed system nets the most gain.

Finally, Euro cars produce 10 more hp on paper than U.S. spec cars, yet with Euro headers a U.S. car gains 20 hp on the dyno. Why? The U.S. section 1 cats are less restrictive.

again ill ask you..... wheres the solid proof?? so you say the cats are longer??? so what??? they may be the same cell count, just longer??? what i dont want in this thread is peoples idea of how things are, what i do want is actual factual evidence on the cell count for the cats, both euro and us setups..... then from their we can talk about the benefits of replacing the cats for high flow items like most are talking about now..... from what i can see the cats are already "high flow items",

Btw the CSL 200 cell cats are the same shape/length as the euro z4m s pipe section, so lets no concentrate on the length of the items, its mean absolutely nothing.... pokey i appreciate your input here... maybe you can call a local supplier, dealer??

Genuine CSL s pipe section

genuine Euro z4m spipe section

[Beedub]

inside EURO z4m cat pipe section.....

these dont looks Dense enough to be 400 cell..... they look like 300 cell, anyone confirm??

[Beedub]

ok im now convinced these are metal core 200 cell cats, take a look at this thread.... scroll down alittle, you can also see the difference between the the ceramic and metal cores.... Seems the stock cats are a very nice piece/ design....

http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45482

it gives pictures of different cell counts, Defo no 400, WAY less dense, even the 300 cell looks denser than the stock euro cat , look at the 200 cell cats...... they look identical in spacing and size to whats posted above.... im pretty certain the euro cats are 200 cell as my dealer told me.... look at the pics and make your own thoughts and come back to me :-)

this would explain why the z4m emissions are SO BAD!!, bare in mind the pollution the s54 makes is what eventually killed it really, they couldnt make it compliant without killing power.

[davesz4mc]

I would assume the Z4M Euro cat pipe is the same as ours as far as cat cell count? I think ours is 400? Or could we be in for a treat like the Euro M3's and these would be fitted with 200 cell count cats?

From this post. by StatScream...
http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=473167


The reduced cell count from the O.E. 400 C.P.S.I. to a high flow 200 C.P.S.I. makes the Supersprint racing converters the most free flowing on the market today. From thier discription though I bet it is only US spec...


More speculation! Compare to the M3 section for a better referance if available...

[Beedub]

Originally Posted by davesz4mc

I would assume the Z4M Euro cat pipe is the same as ours as far as cat cell count? I think ours is 400? Or could we be in for a treat like the Euro M3's and these would be fitted with 200 cell count cats?

From this post. by StatScream...
http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=473167


More speculation! Compare to the M3 section for a better referance if available...

dave see my above post..... ive posted some pics of the inner section of the euro z4m and also a link to some examples of different cell count cats......

im guessing the euro AND USA cats are 200 cell metallic cats..... the pics speak for themselves really....

[davesz4mc]

I edited mine to include a blurb from supersprint on thier cats...

http://www.eurosportdesign.com/p-133...allic-cat.aspx

"The reduced cell count from the O.E. 400 C.P.S.I. to a high flow 200 C.P.S.I. makes the Supersprint racing converters the most free flowing on the market today."

Are the pics from each type csl and z4m? or just the z4m and no pics of the other "internal"

[Beedub]

dave the upper pics are only the inside of the euro z4m cat section, the link shows generic cats but was only linked to show the density of each cell count if you get me......

so to be clear, take alook at the inner Cat pics that show in post 7, these are of the euro z4m cat section, now take yourself to my link in post 8, now scroll down and look closely at the different cats from 400-300-200 they are all labelled and pictured clearly, which one does the my pics in post 7 look like most...... to me it pretty clear they resemble the 200 cell cat by quite some margin, the 300 cell cats look 2 dense.....

now pokey said they euro cats are longer, maybe they are a lower cell count and longer, and the us cats are a higher cell count and shorter??? hence me saying length means nothing.....

[davesz4mc]

Ok that looks closer to 200 than 300 then, The link I posted earlier said the euro m3 had 200 on it so z4m must be the same.

The US spec is diffrent wish I had a pic of it to post, I realy need to get headers bad to get the cats out of them.

[Beedub]

Originally Posted by davesz4mc

Ok that looks closer to 200 than 300 then, The link I posted earlier said the euro m3 had 200 on it so z4m must be the same.

The US spec is diffrent wish I had a pic of it to post, I realy need to get headers bad to get the cats out of them.

Dave can you explain the difference you saw in the us cat section??

Again its pretty clear the euro cat section is 200 cell, the links pretty much prove that, so it looks like the us has a shorter bodied cat thats more restrictive, the euro has a longer cat thats less restrictive....

Anyone got any pics of a us z4m inner cat???? Thay will solve this mistery once and for all.....

[Starscream]

I have obviously both Cats,
In both the headers and S Pipes,

I can tell you the US S pipe has SMALLER cat's in them,
They finish an inch or two before the outlet, the Euro pipe I have you can see the pics above,

BUT

Inside them is the exact same design, Same look as the Euro just not as long,
The headers I can't remember exactly what the cats look like, forgot to check,
But next time I can I'll take some pictures of what the inside of the stock US pipes look like and the stock US headers,

From I have read the Z4M US and Euro uses 200 cel cats in the S-Pipe,
Can't confirm, but I'm almost positive on that

[ZStig]

its my understanding there is overall less catalyctic material in the USA non-header cats than in the Euro version. From the pics I've seen. Anyway, we should be replacing those with free flowing resonators anyway

[Beedub]

Originally Posted by Roffle Waffle

its my understanding there is overall less catalyctic material in the USA non-header cats than in the Euro version. From the pics I've seen. Anyway, we should be replacing those with free flowing resonators anyway

Yes... Their may be less material but the material maybe 400 cell.... ;-) hence why im asking for pics, the z4m euro pipe is 200 cell for sure, the pics and info prove that, now i want to see if the usa cat section is still 200 cell but with less material....

According to dave the inners differ..... I NEED one of the usa guys to post a pic of the inner cat section of their pipework.....

[22022]

Just changed mine over here you go.
1st & 2nd pic is USA s-pipe cats.
The 3rd pic down is inside our US headers.
Last pic measurement from the flange to cat inside the Euro s-pipe cats.

[ZStig]

BAM! facts

[Blind32]

Now that is what I call evidence!

[Beedub]

Booom dun.... Thread closed.

Both use 200 cell cats, the usa models have less 200 cell material there fore will flow better....

I have to say.... Looking at the internals of those cats.... With headers the stock exhaust is amazingly free flow........

Really impressed with the z4m exhaust system.... Drop in csl headers and its imo pretty god damn good...

i can only see 100 cell cats being a big improvement, but with that im guessing noise will drastically increase....