Interest? Section 1 w/ X-Pipe

[JCz04Bimmer]

So a good friend of mine and I have been brainstorming around the concept of creating a Section 1 replacement that serves as an X-Pipe as well. Many people choose to remove the stock Section 1, thus removing a pair of cats, and install straight pipes in its place. However, if you remove this pesky second set of cats located in Section 1, the x-pipe section is way down the line midway through Section 2. Not so ideal as the general rule of thumb is to have x-pipe sections be as close to the catalytic converters (or engine/headers) as possible to assist with scavenging and reduce drone.

Of course, you don't want to have two x-pipe sections so we were thinking this would be used in conjunction with a straight-pipe Section 2. This would give you an ideal or "correct" exhaust setup that you can tune to your exhaust volume needs with your exhaust selection.

The idea would be to install this Section 1 replacement and then run straight pipes in place of Section 2 and then run your exhaust cans of choice. Material costs are pretty high as it would be done in stainless with precise copies of the stock flanges welded in place. The price would likely be around $500 which is still quite a bit cheaper than Supersprint's Section 1.

I'm going to be testing this out with the stock exhaust cans. Would anyone be interested in this? My friend is an extremely talented fabricator with TIG welding but he has a day job so we want to gauge if people would actually want this so he can justify putting in the time!

[Z4MCJJ]

I am interested, especially if you can make the straight pipes lighter than the section1 + X pipes....

[JCz04Bimmer]

The idea would be to only provide the S1 replacement and let those who buy it go to their local shops for the S2 fabrication since all it would be is pipes bent to match the stock route. This allows you to add resonators if you'd prefer. This also would open this part up to the E46 M3 crowd. They too can pick this S1 replacement up and run straight pipes in place of their S2.

That said, you'd definitely see weight savings. S1 has the pair of cats that'd be gone and S2 has a resonator that'd be gone as well. Plus, S2 has plenty of unnecessary routing going on that probably adds a few pounds.

[eunosracr]

I'm in!

[Z4MCJJ]

okay, well I already have custom section 1 pipes...so count me out.

i am completely catless.....SS headers and custom S pipes....

[Haretakis]

I am interested...

[JCz04Bimmer]

Originally Posted by Z4MCJJ

i am completely catless.....SS headers and custom S pipes....

All the more reason to get that x-pipe in the right location!

And to everyone who is interested, we're thinking the price will be set at $550. We were hoping to be able to put it out there for $500 but the cost of materials is high between the pipe, bends, laser-cut flanges and welding/cutting labor involved. Still less than the other options out there and it actually has some engineering thought put in to it!

When it comes time to start buying materials after the prototype for my car is made, we'll assemble a formal list of people who want it. Basically we need at least 5 people to make it happen.

Keep that interest coming!

[pal]

Just want to understand your design - are you suggesting replacing the second sets of cats with an X-pipe? I don't think there is enough space (or the right shaped s pace) in the tunnel there for an X-pipe?

Here is a picture of a 1:18 scale model to help visualize. Notice the narrow and not so deep tunnel that bends into an S shape.



Unless I am totally missing the point?

Thanks.

[JCz04Bimmer]

Originally Posted by pal

Just want to understand your design - are you suggesting replacing the second sets of cats with an X-pipe? I don't think there is enough space (or the right shaped s pace) in the tunnel there for an X-pipe?

Unless I am totally missing the point?

Thanks.

I love the use of the model!

The idea would be to place the X-Pipe as close to the header-side bracket in section 1. The rest would be straight pipe all the way through to the exhaust cans of your choice (stock or otherwise). For the purposes of fabricating something people can buy, we were thinking of making only a second 1 replacement and people can simply run straight pipes in place of section 2. There is plenty of room to have the cross-over section sitting way close to the header-flanges. The cross-over wouldn't take up any more room than the pipes themselves.

[pal]

Thanks Jared.

A 1:18 model is easier to lift and makes me feel like 'The Hulk'

So a small X-pipe section in the first part of section 1 (before the bend starts that goes into the cats). Will you be using some small resonator in the center or is it just a crossover X?

[JCz04Bimmer]

Originally Posted by pal

A 1:18 model is easier to lift and makes me feel like 'The Hulk'

Haha! And ya gotta love realistic toys. :P

[QUOTE=pal;6137530So a small X-pipe section in the first part of section 1 (before the bend starts that goes into the cats). Will you be using some small resonator in the center or is it just a crossover X?[/QUOTE]

If the crossover section is moved in to section 1 then you do not want to retain the crossover in section 2. Someone who decides to go with the crossover section 1 would need to either run straight pipes in place of section 2 or, if you want to retain the stock resonator, cut out the crossover section from the stock pipes or run an aftermarket pair of resonators in an otherwise straight pipe section 2.

The nice thing is this not only moves the crossover section to where it should be to maximize scavenging but it allows someone to obtain the desired volume from their exhaust; they can stay with the stock cans (this is what I plan to do) or run an aftermarket exhaust (Rogue Diablo, Supersprint, Eisenmann, etc)

[ga41]

I could be interested in such a section if it was reasonably priced but seeing as i'm all the way out here this might be one for the US guys only.

[JCz04Bimmer]

Pricing would be $550. We were hoping to get it at or under $500 but materials costs are high. We may still be able to get it down to $500 if we can get enough people to commit because if pipe is bought in long enough sections the price goes down...

So let me start the list...

1. JCz04Bimmer
2.
3.
4.
5.

[Z4MCJJ]

Will the x-pipe be in a similar position to Russramz new x-pipe??

[JCz04Bimmer]

Originally Posted by Z4MCJJ

Will the x-pipe be in a similar position to Russramz new x-pipe??

No. From what I can see, the crossover in his Section 2 where the stock crossover is. No real change in position. This would place the crossover in Section 1 as close as physically possible to the header-side flanges thus necessitating the removal of the stock Section 2 and replacing it with a non-crossover-equipped Section 2 (i.e. straight pipes or resonated straight pipes). The necessary replacement of Section 2 would be inexpensive. I would imagine a good shop wouldn't charge much more than $250 to bend some pipes, cut the stock flanges off of your exhaust and weld them on to the pipes for perfect like-factory fitment.

[Z4MCJJ]

It looks to me that his crossover is about 12-18 inches forward from stock position....I could be wrong. I may be interested in what you are offering then.

[JCz04Bimmer]

Originally Posted by Z4MCJJ

It looks to me that his crossover is about 12-18 inches forward from stock position....I could be wrong. I may be interested in what you are offering then.

Here's what we're thinking.

[JCz04Bimmer]

Would people be more interested in this if both sections 1 and 2 were included? Basically, for $750 you'd get a replacement section 1 with a cross-over section and a replacement section 2 with no cross-over and no resonator...

I need to more formally gauge interest on this. I'm going to install this setup on my car with stock exhaust cans...

1. JCz04Bimmer
2. Z4MCJJ (Maybe)
3. Paphos (Maybe; Int'l Shipping)
4. Haretakis
5. eunosracr
6.
7.
8.
.
.
.

[eunosracr]

Originally Posted by JCz04Bimmer

Would people be more interested in this if both sections 1 and 2 were included? Basically, for $750 you'd get a replacement section 1 with a cross-over section and a replacement section 2 with no cross-over and no resonator...

I need to more formally gauge interest on this. I'm going to install this setup on my car with stock exhaust cans...

1. JCz04Bimmer
2. Z4MCJJ (Maybe)
3. Paphos (Maybe; Int'l Shipping)
4. Haretakis
5. eunosracr
6.
7.
8.
.
.
.

Put me down as maybe as well.

[O-cha]

The s54 is not a v8. Putting an Xpipe right after the headers is a general rule of thumb for certain V8 exhaust design due to the fact that there cylinders fire together in one bank followed by a pause.

The s54 is not one of these and is an even firing engine, as such the X pipe has a very specific distance to have a positive effect on horsepower (too close is much more detrimental then too far) and is mainly there for acoustics.



I'm sure it will still gain HP as your proposing removing the cats, but you can definitely count me out (especially since I can make my own). I've offered to make section 1s for people in the past. Maybe I should renew that.

[JCz04Bimmer]

Originally Posted by O-cha

The s54 is not a v8. Putting an Xpipe right after the headers is a general rule of thumb for certain V8 exhaust design due to the fact that there cylinders fire together in one bank followed by a pause.

The s54 is not one of these and is an even firing engine, as such the X pipe has a very specific distance to have a positive effect on horsepower (too close is much more detrimental then too far) and is mainly there for acoustics.

Interesting. I'll speak with my friend who was going to be putting these together. I know he does have most of his custom fabrication experience with his insanely agile 80-something Impala. Yes, I said agile and Impala in the same sentence. That said, he is pretty much a master BMW tech without the formal certification so I trust his input. But I will pose the question.

Either way, I would do dyno runs before and after the installation.

[rcodea]

idea...

build your prodotype and dyno sheets to show an improvment. there curve will have a different shape to it and the resonent peaks will change thus showing you that the movment of the x-pipe did/didnt make more power in a given location.

~Ryan