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      11-05-2009, 01:42 PM   #1
Spaceman Spiff
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Z4 in snow

I am currently living in LA but most likely will be moving to Boston or New Haven next year. I LOVE my Z4 but I am not sure if a set of snow tires will cut it in the NE weather. Any insight from NE snow dwellers? Does everyone there garage the cars during the snow season (which seems to be 1/3 of the year from what I have read on Wikipedia)?
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      11-05-2009, 08:32 PM   #2
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While the snow and ice make winter driving especially hazardous, the real killer as far as your car is concerned is road salt that the highways depts and cities may apply to melt ice. The stuff will rust your car to bits!

If you are like me and want to keep your Z for years to come, DO NOT drive it during the winter if road salt is in use in your new town.

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      11-05-2009, 10:04 PM   #3
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How can you actually check if the trucks are putting salt on the road rather than sand or whatever?
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      11-06-2009, 12:00 AM   #4
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The problem is, I won't be able to afford a 2nd car for at least 2-3 years. I wonder if the PT system is good enough to use on snowy days.
I think most cities use salt or a chemical compound. I remember seeing something about that on NatGeo a while back.
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      11-06-2009, 12:20 AM   #5
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underbody wash after a snow storm
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      11-06-2009, 12:44 AM   #6
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I drove my '06 3.0si in the CANADIAN winter with a brand new set of Dunlop Winter Sport M3's DSST (runflats) and its the best winter car I've ever had. No scary-almosts-ever...

With the DSC/DTC system combined with the awesome Dunlops, I had zero worries...

Underbody wash + good tires = great winter car IMO.
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      11-06-2009, 06:37 AM   #7
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Well, you should definitely ask your town and state Highways' departments if they are using salt, sand, chemicals, or a combination of the three.

Salt will also severely damage alloy rims. Our regular cars are 01 and 09 Accords and I install cheap steel rims and snow tires for the winter months to avoid wheel damage. Even with that, a few winters ago I stored the wheels of the '01 without washing them and the small bit of accumulated salt had noticeably pitted a couple of them by spring.

If your town will use sand over the winter, that creates another hazard - road rash! In that case, stay well back of the car in front of you, especially at highway speeds where you will get some serious wheel spray from the car in front of you. Trust me on this - or your front and hood will need a repaint in the spring.

You should investigate a good rust protection / undercoating system and see about getting a bra or stone chip deflector for your car's engine hood if you must use it over the winter.

Cheers!

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      11-06-2009, 08:10 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceman Spiff View Post
I am currently living in LA but most likely will be moving to Boston or New Haven next year. I LOVE my Z4 but I am not sure if a set of snow tires will cut it in the NE weather. Any insight from NE snow dwellers? Does everyone there garage the cars during the snow season (which seems to be 1/3 of the year from what I have read on Wikipedia)?
i'be had a 3.0 and now an M.... had dedicated snows for both. car drove great in the white stuff, i live on a big hill.... some fish tailing going up during storms... but they did the job and got me home. on the normal streets with snow, no problems.
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      11-06-2009, 10:46 AM   #9
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Okay, the question isn't if the Z4 is capable IMO, you most definitely are not capable (unless you have lived in a northern state and driven on snow/ice a lot before). Driving a RWD car in snow is COMPLETELY different than anything you would do in Cali. I would get a different car, even a really cheap FWD beater for when there is snow on the ground.

I would most definitely not learn to drive in snow in such a nice, high powered, RWD vehicle. The traction control and tires can only do so much for you.
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      11-06-2009, 12:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
Okay, the question isn't if the Z4 is capable IMO, you most definitely are not capable (unless you have lived in a northern state and driven on snow/ice a lot before). Driving a RWD car in snow is COMPLETELY different than anything you would do in Cali. I would get a different car, even a really cheap FWD beater for when there is snow on the ground.

I would most definitely not learn to drive in snow in such a nice, high powered, RWD vehicle. The traction control and tires can only do so much for you.
and i have to admit... i did just buy an SUV as an extra car.... but really for hauling the dig around, large items, trips to the mountains skiing and driving out on the beach in the summer.
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      11-06-2009, 01:06 PM   #11
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Is snow driving really that different? I thought you just have to go slower (which takes a bit of getting used to) and try not to slip!
Other than my snow driving skills or lack thereof, it looks like the car will be fine with snow tires, underbody protection and washing. Do people who live in snowy areas and have nice cars really go through all the trouble or just buy beaters for the winter?
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      11-06-2009, 05:20 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceman Spiff View Post
Is snow driving really that different? I thought you just have to go slower (which takes a bit of getting used to) and try not to slip!
Other than my snow driving skills or lack thereof, it looks like the car will be fine with snow tires, underbody protection and washing. Do people who live in snowy areas and have nice cars really go through all the trouble or just buy beaters for the winter?

YES - it is THAT different!!

A poster above from New England is of the view that snowfall in that region is not sufficient enough to warrant storing your car or buying a winter vehicle. As I don't live there, I can't argue. But where I live, we were supposed to have 4 inches of snow TODAY. And its not even December yet!

Here is a "crash" course on winter driving! Some tips!

1. If a road looks slippery, it probably is.

2. If you are in doubt, very lightly tap the brakes to see if it is slippery. The first time your car slides is scary!

3. If you ever get into a situation where the car is sliding on you, take your foot completely OFF the gas and ON the clutch all the way. Steer gently to regain control. Do not slam your foot on the brake!

4. If the back end swings out, it usually does so rather quickly. So, do all of #3 and steer the car in the direction of the slide. Eg, if the back swings to the right, steer right until the car straigtens up. If the back swings left, steer left.

5. If you are going up a slippery hill - do not stop until you get to a level stretch of road.

6. have a collapsable shovel in the trunk in case you need to shovel out.

7. Clear all the snow off the car - headlights and tail lights - before you go. And from the roof. Or, it may slide down over the windshield blocking your vision just when you need to see.

And read this:

http://www.canadiandriver.com/2005/0...iving-tips.htm

and:

http://www.caa.ca/documents/factsheet-Winter-Driving-eng.pdf#search="winter"

CANADIAN AUTOMOBILE ASSOCIATION
FACT SHEET
Winter Driving - Be Prepared

Think Safety when driving this winter. Cold temperatures, slippery roads, and decreased visibility make driving in winter conditions challenging. Canadian drivers can be prepared for winter driving conditions by following a few simple tips.

Slow down - Black ice, slush or snow covered roads can make stopping dangerous. Drive slowly and leave plenty of distance between vehicles.

Proper tires – Traction is the key to good movement, turning and stopping on wet, slushy or icy surfaces. Check tires and tire pressure at least once a month when tires are cold and remember that tire air pressure decreases in colder weather. Winter tires provide additional traction in colder weather.

Windshield wipers and fluid - Fill up on winter washer fluid and replace wiper blades that streak. Make sure there is enough windshield washer fluid in the reservoir and that it is rated in the -40C temperature range. Carry an extra jug in the vehicle.

Keep the gas tank topped up - When driving in bad weather, think caution, plan ahead and make sure you have enough fuel. Keep the fuel tank at least half full.

See and be seen - clear all snow from the hood, roof, windows and lights. Clear all windows of fog. If visibility becomes poor, find a place to safely pull off the road as soon as possible.

Carry emergency equipment – Have the appropriate safety and emergency winter equipment always stored in your car. This should include: shovel, extra warm clothes, blanket, booster cables, ice scraper & brush, first aid kit, flashlight & flares, food, candle & matches. For a complete list or to order you winter survival kit visit your local CAA store.

For more information, please visit: www.caa.ca

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      11-06-2009, 05:28 PM   #13
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I second Hawkeye. No, snow driving is not any different than dry pavement driving when your tires have traction. But how slow do you have to drive to be in that same zone? If you've never driven in snow before - you don't know. And what situations do you avoid because of other drivers on the road, i.e. stopping 3ft behind someone on a uphill, only to have them slide into your bumper, you probably don't know.

But you will find out eventually, and when you do, you realize your f*cked, its too late and all you can do is hold on for the ride. It's happened to me, it's happened to everyone who has driven long enough in the snow, and its not fun. Its a slow motion punch to the gut, and with a Z4, that's a pretty damn expensive way to find out where that limit is. I drove my Z4MC in Denver for 2 years with Dunlop M3 Wintersports without issue, but I have 8+ years experience driving in Minnesota and Michigan winters.
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      11-06-2009, 06:32 PM   #14
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I'm 47 and have been driving since I was 17. Here in my part of Canada, we have some of the most severe winters in the country and thus, the entire continent.

So, having driven for 30 hard, snowy and slippery Canadian winters, trust me when I tell you that winter driving is a whole new ball game.

I know what I'm talking about.

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      11-06-2009, 07:24 PM   #15
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OK - But What About Deep Snow?

The issue of slipping, sliding, and losing control is one thing (and a big one). But... what about the ground clearance issue? I have driven in snowy climates all of my 40+ years of driving, so I am no novice. I drove a Miata through one winter a while back (4 Nokian Hakkapollita's - great tires!). Anyway - I was able to drive the car through a lot of snowy and icy driving, BUT when we had a heavy storm (about 3 times/season), the car acted like a sled due to the relatively low ground clearance. It was not a pleasant experience.

So - - - I would imagine the Z4 is the same way in that regard. No? Anyone drive theirs in really deep snow and not get stuck?

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      11-06-2009, 10:40 PM   #16
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I've lived in New Hampshire all my life. Here is my humble opinion, fwiw.
First, ALL road sand here in New England has salt mixed in. A pile of sand WITHOUT salt mixed in will gather water and freeze solid. Not good - ESPECIALLY if it is sitting in the back of a dump truck. It WILL eat your car alive.
Second - If you know how to drive in snow AND you have some common sense you can drive just about anything here. I owned a 1980 Mazda RX-7 that was my DD back in the late 80's. I did 40-50 thousand miles all over NH every year and managed quite fine. It was a similar car in stature, tho no where near the HP of the Zed M. I then owned a Subura XT with performance tires. Again, same profile but not the same power.
If you MUST drive your Zed in the winter up here, invest in a winter set of wheels & tires. The salt will eat your wheels, and eventually your car.
Finally, the "common sense" arguement. While you may have plenty, keep in mind that 75% of the other drivers DO NOT! I drive a 4WD SUV in the winter. It gives me GREAT traction in the snow. I get passed quite frequently in slippery snow showers by sedans just because they seem to do well when they are driving in a straght line. BUT.... keep in mind.... a front wheel drive car or a 4wd vehicle helps you get started in the snow, and it helps you keep traction at a higher speed in the snow. That means that the idiot who loses traction in a front wheel drive or a 4wd car/truck/suv is doing so at a higher speed than the rest of the cars around them! These are the people who are out driving on the highway beside you ALL WINTER LONG. Your driving may be fine, but these idiots can take you out in a heartbeat.
Good luck and welcome to New England. PM me in the spring & I'll be happy to point you to a bunch of our great driving roads.
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      11-07-2009, 06:29 AM   #17
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Spaceman Spiff:

That is some great advice from JRich4411!!

I could not have said it better myself!

It sounds like in addition to steel wheels and snow tires, you should consider getting a good rust protection system applied to the car. When I bought my '01 Accord, the dealer offered a system that only needed to be applied once and was guaranteed for ten years. JRich - do you know of anything like that in your neck of the lovely New England woods?

Cheers!

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      11-07-2009, 11:38 PM   #18
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It's do-able, but not pleasant. I drove my Z4M the first winter I had it, but bought the Smart for the crappy stuff the next. The Z4M with snows never got stuck and I got the underbody washed once/week, but the low ground clearance and crater-sized potholes mean the car still endured all sorts of abuse that I simply wasn't comfortable with seeing as I plan to keep it long-term.
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      11-08-2009, 12:50 PM   #19
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I've been driving my Z4//M here in Germany year round. I buy a new set of snow tires every year no matter what. I know it might be a little expensive but the security of knowing you have something good on the car gives me great ease of mind. Next drive with caution the car has a lot of power and the butt likes to come out even with traction control on. I love my Z year round.
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      11-09-2009, 12:12 PM   #20
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Forget your fancy GPS and just follow the "two foot" theory of navigation. If you are in the Northern hemisphere, look at your two feet. If you are wearing socks, turn South.
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      11-12-2009, 11:26 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceman Spiff View Post
I am currently living in LA but most likely will be moving to Boston or New Haven next year.
If you want suggestions or have any questions in terms of actually living in or around boston, shoot me a PM.

Snow here is rough some times. 3'+

Its fun when you are a kid but when you actually have a car it sucks no matter what you drive.
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      11-13-2009, 12:01 PM   #22
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the car does fine in up to 4" of snow with snow tires
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