Cayman GT4 & Z4Mc

[David70]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

I've had bad thoughts of selling the Z4M in the future for a GT4. About the only car currently I'd consider replacing the Z4M with. Great post.

X2, I don't have the space for more than one "fun" car so unless we move, Z4M has to go to get another.

My biggest problem with any switch is the price to go up can be extreme (many cars double/triple the price) but I haven't seen double/triple the value/experience. I wonder if/when the GT4 will only cost double what the Z4M is worth.

[Beedub]

ok... this video made me jealous!!

[Beedub]

hows the GT4 going??

any further you can delve into the cars details would be great..... super jealous of this pickup BTW... super jealous.

[ajw45]

Originally Posted by Beedub

hows the GT4 going??

any further you can delve into the cars details would be great..... super jealous of this pickup BTW... super jealous.

Loving the GT4! Still waiting out the winter to hit the track but 6pts and harness bar are on the way!

I always thought Porsches were terrible values and never even considered buying one before this (other than an old 951). Performance/$ isn’t great, depreciation is usually high, and with the highest margins in the industry, I couldn’t get rid of that nagging feeling that as a buyer I’d be getting screwed. Having had more time in and under the GT4 though, I’m starting to get it (drink the kool aid?). The thoughtfulness of design and engineering is a whole other level above the Z4M. Value might still be debatable but there are a lot of little things that are really well executed in the GT4 which on the Z4M would be nuisances or upgrades:

- Brake ducts front and rear are simple but effective molded ducts and the rears are designed to break away if snagged. No random flappy hose kits to tear, bind on the suspension, or potentially catch fire cause me and my buddy installed them over a couple of beers

- Front lip is made of matte black plastic. It scrapes on ramps all the time but I don't care because it's black all the way through, doesn't show much wear, and I think I can touch it up with a sharpie. New OEM replacements are cheap too. Fantastic. Fangs on the Z4M front bumper are just waiting to get scraped off.

- Camber, caster, corner balancing, every suspension adjustment is just a few parts away. Instead of having to order aftermarket camber plates, coilovers, etc you can pretty much get whatever ride height, cross weights, and alignment settings you want on the factory suspension plus a few (OEM) shims and bushings.

- The carbon fiber seats are awesome and surprisingly comfortable. I spent hours reading through the threads on ZPost about what aftermarket fixed back seats would fit in the Z4M, which floor mounts to use, debating buying a used driver's seat just to steal the occupancy sensor to avoid the airbag light, etc etc. These just work.

- No OEM 2nd gear notch/grind!

- The wheel and tire package is maxed out and fits perfectly in the wheel wells. In every BMW I’ve ever had I’ve gone bigger/wider but this blows my mind. I sorta want to go smaller/skinnier. 20” wheels with 295r MPSC2 is a lot of rubber.

Suspension, seats, exhaust, shifter, they're all great compared to the OEM Z4M components and I'm happy to leave them all stock. Even if I upgraded all these things on the Z4M, it would probably feel more like a tuner build with lots of excellent but disparate components vs. the GT4 where everything is wrapped into a singular cohesively tuned package with German OEM level fit, finish, and testing. There are some less tangible experiential aspects that I really appreciate too now that I've gotten used to them:

- The Cayman/GT4 interior feels bigger and more airy mostly because the dashboard leans away from the driver giving a sense of space. Without an engine in front and being able to drop the CF seats to the floor, visibility and headroom in the GT4 are excellent, even with the wing cutting the view out the rear window in half! In the Z4, the buttons and controls are closer to the driver so they fall to hand better and it feels like more of a cockpit but I don’t miss being so close to the roof and having to lean forward to see traffic lights.

- Love love love the huge center tachometer in the dash. I just drive the tach with an occasional glance down to the digital speed readout at the bottom of the tach. It sounds minor and frivolous but it's something I noticed when hopping into the Z4M and realized I'm much more aware of my speed in that car.

If I had to choose just one, the GT4 would be the one since it can do everything and do it better than the Z4M. Maybe I’m getting old but the comfort, capability, and flexibility of the GT4 over the Z4M are appealing… which is perhaps a frighteningly practical statement for a sports car. It’s excellent in a precise German kind of way but not as characterful as the Z4M which is more upfront, aggressive, compromised, and flawed.

[Vanne]

LOVE IT!!!

[inTgr8r]

Sweet machine.
If resources allowed, I'd definitely own one.

[baege]

[If I had to choose just one, the GT4 would be the one since it can do everything and do it better than the Z4M. Maybe I’m getting old but the comfort, capability, and flexibility of the GT4 over the Z4M are appealing… which is perhaps a frighteningly practical statement for a sports car. It’s excellent in a precise German kind of way but not as characterful as the Z4M which is more upfront, aggressive, compromised, and flawed.[/QUOTE]

yeah but do you look back at it the way you do with your z4mc? I certainly don't with my 981CS with x73 on 20's.

I get a lot what you are saying, in terms of the joy of driving and ownership, my 981S exceeds my old Z4C, but what I am finding is that I really miss that intangible attachment to my car. I don't look back at my 981 very much and don't get excited when I see one on the street. Both of which happened in regards to my old Z4C. I wish I could find that in a car that offers the joy of driving of my 981S. That would be da one!

[inTgr8r]

baege i think the two qualities you describe are mutually exclusive

[Beedub]

damnnnnnn.......... that was tough to read because i wholeheartedly believe you :-(


Im very envious of your GT4.... very its the car I'm trying to build from my old timer z4m... But the z4m such a gorgeous car and design and with ( ALOT) of changes i think it can still hang with the gt4.... but i hear you, the GT4 does everything a highly modded z4m can do and more, and does it with a higher quality from bone stock etc..

Lets no forget one fact, the z4m is nearly a decade old now.. and no matter how good the gt4 is... it just doesn't have an engine as special and bespoke as the s54, that type of engine in a mass production car for the price point just isn't happening again imo.

Thanks for the update!

[baege]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

baege i think the two qualities you describe are mutually exclusive

you may be right, it's a cruel cruel world

[ajw45]

Originally Posted by Beedub

damnnnnnn.......... that was tough to read because i wholeheartedly believe you :-(

Im very envious of your GT4.... very its the car I'm trying to build from my old timer z4m... But the z4m such a gorgeous car and design and with ( ALOT) of changes i think it can still hang with the gt4.... but i hear you, the GT4 does everything a highly modded z4m can do and more, and does it with a higher quality from bone stock etc..

Lets no forget one fact, the z4m is nearly a decade old now.. and no matter how good the gt4 is... it just doesn't have an engine as special and bespoke as the s54, that type of engine in a mass production car for the price point just isn't happening again imo.

Thanks for the update!

Totally agree! The S54 still feels more special than the flat 6 in the way the sound and feel of the engine changes through the rev range. I still have an easier time heel toeing in the Z4M than the GT4 since I can hear and feel what RPM the S54 is at. I don't think a car like the Z4M will ever happen again - no manufacturer seems to want to make a car like it and even in 2008 there wasn't much demand for it. I think that's why the Z4M is the more unique of the two and might even become collectable because of it's simplicity, focus, and fun factor.

So, the Z4M is staying.

[ajw45]

Originally Posted by baege

yeah but do you look back at it the way you do with your z4mc? I certainly don't with my 981CS with x73 on 20's.

I get a lot what you are saying, in terms of the joy of driving and ownership, my 981S exceeds my old Z4C, but what I am finding is that I really miss that intangible attachment to my car. I don't look back at my 981 very much and don't get excited when I see one on the street. Both of which happened in regards to my old Z4C. I wish I could find that in a car that offers the joy of driving of my 981S. That would be da one!

I do! But I've done that with all my cars, even my E28 M5 which I wouldn't call necessarily good looking. I hear you though. Have you tracked the 981 yet? I haven't developed that attachment to the GT4 either but I assume that's just because I haven't had a chance to really get on it at the track/auto-x and find/exceed it's limits which seem way to high to find on the street.

[baege]

Originally Posted by ajw45

So, the Z4M is staying.

colour me green with envy

[baege]

Originally Posted by ajw45

I do! But I've done that with all my cars, even my E28 M5 which I wouldn't call necessarily good looking. I hear you though. Have you tracked the 981 yet? I haven't developed that attachment to the GT4 either but I assume that's just because I haven't had a chance to really get on it at the track/auto-x and find/exceed it's limits which seem way to high to find on the street.

I am not a track kind of guy. Never tracked the Z4C either, but that didn't prevent the love for it.

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by baege

I am not a track kind of guy. Never tracked the Z4C either, but that didn't prevent the love for it.

Have you ever thought about it, just to get your feet wet?

Only reason I ask is that I was the same when I had my M Roady.
I hadn't considered tracking at all, but when I did I had a completely different appreciation for the car and attachment to the Z (My experience FWIW )

I had to get out of the M Roady for personal reasons, but knew absolutely I would be back.

[Boulder z4m]

AJW,

As a GTS Owner, I can attest to your comments. The speed is sublime and is effortless to attain both in straightaways and in corners. The problem it that the GTS is too much car for public roads. I love the style and unique aspects of the car (highest HP MT 991 with rear seats, CL wheels, wider hips) but may have to acquiesce to the M for driving enjoyment on public roads given the need to work for speed. The GTS is really an amazing car and a keeper though

Todd

[baege]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

Have you ever thought about it, just to get your feet wet?

Only reason I ask is that I was the same when I had my M Roady.
I hadn't considered tracking at all, but when I did I had a completely different appreciation for the car and attachment to the Z (My experience FWIW )

I had to get out of the M Roady for personal reasons, but knew absolutely I would be back.

hmm, you track guys always want others to join your cult huh? I don't think I am cut out for it, I get nauseous around the dvp lawrence loop

also the cost of insurance and other consumables discourage me

plus I loved my Z4c and never tracked it so that's not key for the love

[baege]

you sir with the 991GTS, Z4mcoupe and C2 have pretty much my dream collection

[Beedub]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

Have you ever thought about it, just to get your feet wet?

Only reason I ask is that I was the same when I had my M Roady.
I hadn't considered tracking at all, but when I did I had a completely different appreciation for the car and attachment to the Z (My experience FWIW )

I had to get out of the M Roady for personal reasons, but knew absolutely I would be back.

absolutely agree... and experience a track event roof off??? damn.... now that is probably one of the coolest experiences out...

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by baege

hmm............., I get nauseous around the dvp lawrence loop

[Eleanor]

Now that's the comparison i was looking for! Z vs. GT4, i wondered how that would turn out great report, thanks!

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by Boulder z4m

AJW,

As a GTS Owner, I can attest to your comments. The speed is sublime and is effortless to attain both in straightaways and in corners. The problem it that the GTS is too much car for public roads. I love the style and unique aspects of the car (highest HP MT 991 with rear seats, CL wheels, wider hips) but may have to acquiesce to the M for driving enjoyment on public roads given the need to work for speed. The GTS is really an amazing car and a keeper though.

Todd

Love the GTS. Sharkwerks center section?

But that's the thing isn't it--once you move past a certain level there's only so much you can do on a public road. I'll just say I agree and when it comes to pure driving enjoyment (without possible jail time) the M is just about right. There are better cars, faster cars, but the M is just a very fun (and demanding, in a good way) car.