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      01-02-2016, 11:06 PM   #1
AriuSen
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future z4m Track owner. Need help from experience drivers!

Hi,

So I am about to buy a z4m that is pretty much track oriented. it has cage, harness, all weight reduction as possible besides AC, solid bushings, etc.
So I came here for the first time at this forum yesterday. read about 5 pages of the track session, but unfortunately noticed that there arent many info or if there are, they are very old and i dont want to revive every single thread lol. So its not like I didnt searched...i did, but I actually would appreciate if I could get updated information for my questions since I noticed many settings were changed over the months, which means that this car is still relatively new for track. I will try as much as possible update with my trial and errors and describe what worked for me and what didnt to try to help future track guys.
I read many crazy stuff on this forum, like more camber on the rear than on the front, sway bars only on front others sway bar only on rear, zero toe, toe in etc etc etc....so I have no idea where to start from. I learned from my previous experince that I would love to make as less mistake as possible, because every mistake cost money and I dont want to try all the possibilities available. (ive done this before and im too old for this now)

so, before I start my questions, I would like to say that I am moderate to agressive driver, I like to trail brake every turn I can all the way to the apex and get on gas asap even if its 3% of gas but focus that on/after apex, I am on gas no matter what. on corner exit, I go agressive, but not to the point that I need to counter like crazy, but sometimes I do little counter-steer. I thought I had to explain a little since every driver has its style. so here you go:

you car has:
aero?
tires:r-comps/slicks/street?
Wheel size and offset + tire size + spacer/no spacer?
sway bars?
what coilover?
spring rate?
camber and toe?
tire pressure HOT?
Any setting you tried that you would advise me not to?
Care to give a brief explanation why you like your setting? Entry corner/apex/exit, fast corners, etc etc?

Thank you very much! And hope to get as many track freaks as possible to give their 2 cents and maybe this can be a sticker!

Last edited by AriuSen; 01-02-2016 at 11:20 PM..
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      01-09-2016, 06:52 PM   #2
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If you are going to install a more aggressive Front sway bar for Track use ( as many do) read THIS thread and THIS thread

If your car will be mostly Track, the Clubsport coilovers, See THIS Thread and THIS thread

If you have searched, you've probably seen all of these.

The HACK says THIS Code change is the best Track Mod you can do to your car.

Not many Z4MC's out there, fewer yet being tracked.
Good Luck! Have Fun!
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      01-10-2016, 09:45 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AriuSen View Post
Hi,

So I am about to buy a z4m that is pretty much track oriented. it has cage, harness, all weight reduction as possible besides AC, solid bushings, etc.
So I came here for the first time at this forum yesterday. read about 5 pages of the track session, but unfortunately noticed that there arent many info or if there are, they are very old and i dont want to revive every single thread lol. So its not like I didnt searched...i did, but I actually would appreciate if I could get updated information for my questions since I noticed many settings were changed over the months, which means that this car is still relatively new for track. I will try as much as possible update with my trial and errors and describe what worked for me and what didnt to try to help future track guys.
I read many crazy stuff on this forum, like more camber on the rear than on the front, sway bars only on front others sway bar only on rear, zero toe, toe in etc etc etc....so I have no idea where to start from. I learned from my previous experince that I would love to make as less mistake as possible, because every mistake cost money and I dont want to try all the possibilities available. (ive done this before and im too old for this now)

so, before I start my questions, I would like to say that I am moderate to agressive driver, I like to trail brake every turn I can all the way to the apex and get on gas asap even if its 3% of gas but focus that on/after apex, I am on gas no matter what. on corner exit, I go agressive, but not to the point that I need to counter like crazy, but sometimes I do little counter-steer. I thought I had to explain a little since every driver has its style. so here you go:

you car has:
aero?
tires:r-comps/slicks/street?
Wheel size and offset + tire size + spacer/no spacer?
sway bars?
what coilover?
spring rate?
camber and toe?
tire pressure HOT?
Any setting you tried that you would advise me not to?
Care to give a brief explanation why you like your setting? Entry corner/apex/exit, fast corners, etc etc?

Thank you very much! And hope to get as many track freaks as possible to give their 2 cents and maybe this can be a sticker!
Here's what I'm working on to improve my car for the track. -

My local track (still 200 miles away) that I run at is High Plains Raceway in CO. The track has been brutal on the brakes for me with temps above 900*F after 8 to 12 laps so everything I'm working on is to improve braking performance (including my driving style).

The other thing I'm working on is the inherent push that the car has mid corner. The turn in feels good but that is soon followed by the front end pushing. Tire temps show I need more front camber then the stock adjustments allow for. I just picked up a set of KW Clubsports to help with this.

Tires- Bridgestone Potenza S-04 Pole Position run best at 40 psi hot. Get greasy after about 6 to 8 laps. OEM wheels and stock sizes. Next set will be wider up front. Tires are consumables so I still have experimenting to do and will try another kind later this year.

Alignment - Max factory front camber was about 1.7*. Rear has 2*. Front toe is set within spec. I like more toe in for stability so I'm closer to the end of the spec.

Springs/dampening - current stock. KW's ready to install this winter so i'll know more in the spring. Stock set up seemed to soft.

Sway bars - stock

Brakes - Steel lines, HI temp brake fluid, Replaced the toasted CSL rotors with ECS performance. Currently making last decisions on custom brake ducting. New Cool Carbon pads installed have less then half the pad left after 1 track day

Nothing on the car for Aero I don't want to add anything else in the mix just yet to figure out.
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      01-10-2016, 03:10 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bossdog View Post
If you are going to install a more aggressive Front sway bar for Track use ( as many do) read THIS thread and THIS thread

If your car will be mostly Track, the Clubsport coilovers, See THIS Thread and THIS thread

If you have searched, you've probably seen all of these.

The HACK says THIS Code change is the best Track Mod you can do to your car.

Not many Z4MC's out there, fewer yet being tracked.
Good Luck! Have Fun!
thanks a lot!
I read about the subframe problem, but I dont like getting sway bars until I have my coilover dialed in.
about the coding, that is pretty impressive! However, at the track I just turn everything off.
Just a question, if I want to get coding, is the ECU same as e92?
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      01-10-2016, 03:16 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longress View Post
Here's what I'm working on to improve my car for the track. -

My local track (still 200 miles away) that I run at is High Plains Raceway in CO. The track has been brutal on the brakes for me with temps above 900*F after 8 to 12 laps so everything I'm working on is to improve braking performance (including my driving style).

The other thing I'm working on is the inherent push that the car has mid corner. The turn in feels good but that is soon followed by the front end pushing. Tire temps show I need more front camber then the stock adjustments allow for. I just picked up a set of KW Clubsports to help with this.

Tires- Bridgestone Potenza S-04 Pole Position run best at 40 psi hot. Get greasy after about 6 to 8 laps. OEM wheels and stock sizes. Next set will be wider up front. Tires are consumables so I still have experimenting to do and will try another kind later this year.

Alignment - Max factory front camber was about 1.7*. Rear has 2*. Front toe is set within spec. I like more toe in for stability so I'm closer to the end of the spec.

Springs/dampening - current stock. KW's ready to install this winter so i'll know more in the spring. Stock set up seemed to soft.

Sway bars - stock

Brakes - Steel lines, HI temp brake fluid, Replaced the toasted CSL rotors with ECS performance. Currently making last decisions on custom brake ducting. New Cool Carbon pads installed have less then half the pad left after 1 track day

Nothing on the car for Aero I don't want to add anything else in the mix just yet to figure out.
that is an awesome start! I bet if you run square set up, and install the kw with more camber, you will fix the problem!....man I wish you bought my kws lol.....good price for the mileage......your tire pressure is so high....never seen anyone running 40 hot....i usually run 35 hot with street tires and 31 hot with r-comps.

I had kw on my m3 e92 and with stock springs, 11kg/12kg, I used to run about 1:59 at buttonwillow, but then I decided to do something crazy to completly remove understeer and bought swifts 12kg/16kg......unbelievably I did 1:55 just by changing springs.....the car so much better at turns and no understeer at all! although I had more oversteer than I wanted, but I just soften compression on the rear and voila!
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      01-10-2016, 05:17 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AriuSen View Post
thanks a lot!
I read about the subframe problem, but I dont like getting sway bars until I have my coilover dialed in.
about the coding, that is pretty impressive! However, at the track I just turn everything off.
Just a question, if I want to get coding, is the ECU same as e92?
E46 M3
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      01-11-2016, 09:18 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bossdog View Post
E46 M3
Some of the modules are the same but the ECU is not the same as E46
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      01-11-2016, 10:24 AM   #8
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Combo weekend fun & occasional track (4-6) all road course, no auto-X

aero? YES
Car is VERY receptive to aero
-running APR splitter, VRS wing
-new aero parts under development




tires:Direzza ZII Star spec
Wheel size: 18 x 9.5 square with 265s details here
sway bars: 30mm front on poly bush, no rear bar.
- no rear helps to control snap oversteer and gives better throttle steer (only in combination with COs and spring rates)
coilover: MCS, 1WNR; HUGE improvement over KW Clubsports
spring rate: 550f 650r
camber and toe:
camb.-3.2f -2.4r (still playing with rear to max traction under track out throttle.
toe - 0.0 f ; 1/16th rear
fr caster is maxed out for as much dynamic camber as possible

tire pressure: depends on track, day and tire temps.

Setup has developed over time (into 7th year with this car) and lots of experimentation.
- tried GC coilovers. good on track perf, not so on street. bad experience with support.
- KW Clubsport good all round CO, I was just ready to move on.

basically I'm a slow in fast out driver, use trail brake and throttle to set and balance to the apex.
currently working on L.foot braking.
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      01-11-2016, 11:48 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inTgr8r View Post
Combo weekend fun & occasional track (4-6) all road course, no auto-X

aero? YES
Car is VERY receptive to aero
-running APR splitter, VRS wing
-new aero parts under development




tires:Direzza ZII Star spec
Wheel size: 18 x 9.5 square with 265s details here
sway bars: 30mm front on poly bush, no rear bar.
- no rear helps to control snap oversteer and gives better throttle steer (only in combination with COs and spring rates)
coilover: MCS, 1WNR; HUGE improvement over KW Clubsports
spring rate: 550f 650r
camber and toe:
camb.-3.2f -2.4r (still playing with rear to max traction under track out throttle.
toe - 0.0 f ; 1/16th rear
fr caster is maxed out for as much dynamic camber as possible

tire pressure: depends on track, day and tire temps.

Setup has developed over time (into 7th year with this car) and lots of experimentation.
- tried GC coilovers. good on track perf, not so on street. bad experience with support.
- KW Clubsport good all round CO, I was just ready to move on.

basically I'm a slow in fast out driver, use trail brake and throttle to set and balance to the apex.
currently working on L.foot braking.
wow that is a lot of wind lift!!
that is a lot of camber on the rear....really impressed!
I agree on the sway bar...Although I dont plan on getting the fronts too, as this car is known for understeer, but if yours is not understeering, then its a mod to consider since i hate too much body roll.
I think if i get MCS, I will try 650/850 springs rate.
About the wheels, I saw that the front is et40 -10mm spacer....do you think you could fit the rears in the front? or it would rub the fender?
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      01-11-2016, 11:54 AM   #10
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No, rears definitely will not fit.
Inside Clearance at the strut is also problematic.
With my setup I clear the strut by 5mm

You might find that the rear is hard to control with that spring setup on this short wheel base.
The general rule of thumb is about 100 differential f/r., unless you adopt a full rear CO. Then springs are pretty much an even setup.

Yeah, I used to run -2.0 rear camber & have edged it up to max grip.
I have a feeling I'll settle in about -2.2 after play time this year
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      01-18-2016, 01:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AriuSen View Post
Hi,

So I am about to buy a z4m that is pretty much track oriented. it has cage, harness, all weight reduction as possible besides AC, solid bushings, etc.
So I came here for the first time at this forum yesterday. read about 5 pages of the track session, but unfortunately noticed that there arent many info or if there are, they are very old and i dont want to revive every single thread lol. So its not like I didnt searched...i did, but I actually would appreciate if I could get updated information for my questions since I noticed many settings were changed over the months, which means that this car is still relatively new for track. I will try as much as possible update with my trial and errors and describe what worked for me and what didnt to try to help future track guys.
I read many crazy stuff on this forum, like more camber on the rear than on the front, sway bars only on front others sway bar only on rear, zero toe, toe in etc etc etc....so I have no idea where to start from. I learned from my previous experince that I would love to make as less mistake as possible, because every mistake cost money and I dont want to try all the possibilities available. (ive done this before and im too old for this now)

so, before I start my questions, I would like to say that I am moderate to agressive driver, I like to trail brake every turn I can all the way to the apex and get on gas asap even if its 3% of gas but focus that on/after apex, I am on gas no matter what. on corner exit, I go agressive, but not to the point that I need to counter like crazy, but sometimes I do little counter-steer. I thought I had to explain a little since every driver has its style. so here you go:

you car has:
aero?
tires:r-comps/slicks/street?
Wheel size and offset + tire size + spacer/no spacer?
sway bars?
what coilover?
spring rate?
camber and toe?
tire pressure HOT?
Any setting you tried that you would advise me not to?
Care to give a brief explanation why you like your setting? Entry corner/apex/exit, fast corners, etc etc?

Thank you very much! And hope to get as many track freaks as possible to give their 2 cents and maybe this can be a sticker!
1.) Suspension : I'm running MCS 2-way external reservoir coil overs with 750 front / 450 rear spring rates ( rear is converted to a coilover so that would equal a 900 pound spring on stock set up. ) To do this I welded support to the strut towers and tied my roll cage into it. Running -3.4 camber front ,o toe , -2.2 rear, .14 total toe in, with camber plates up front and turner adjustable arms in the rear. Fantastic set up and literally transforms how the car handles.

2.) Wheels: I'm running apex EC-7's 18x9 front 18x10 rear with 265/35/18's 285/30/18's Hankook TD's or Michelin sport cups . No room to run a wider wheel or tire front or rear without a spacer.And no square is not faster with my power and suspension setup lol. Tire pressure for the TD's and Sport cups are best around 35 hot.

3.) Brakes : PFC BBK Z 45 front , Z32 rear with PFC 08 endurance pads.

4.) Differential : 3.82 final drive with a Diffsonline 12 clutch racing diff 30/60 lockup

5.) Aero I have a rear diffuser and thats it for now but have several Varis bits inbound

6.)Engine : running ESS VT -525 with a custom 34 row Setrab oil cooler, and Zionsville radiator for track cooling.

7.) Lots of small details that i won't go into fits in the various category like bushings, motor /tranny mounts etc.

Here is the set up in action in a PCA advance group .


Last edited by gmd2003; 01-18-2016 at 01:27 PM..
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      01-18-2016, 01:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by AriuSen View Post
Hi,

So I am about to buy a z4m that is pretty much track oriented. it has cage, harness, all weight reduction as possible besides AC, solid bushings, etc.
So I came here for the first time at this forum yesterday. read about 5 pages of the track session, but unfortunately noticed that there arent many info or if there are, they are very old and i dont want to revive every single thread lol. So its not like I didnt searched...i did, but I actually would appreciate if I could get updated information for my questions since I noticed many settings were changed over the months, which means that this car is still relatively new for track. I will try as much as possible update with my trial and errors and describe what worked for me and what didnt to try to help future track guys.
I read many crazy stuff on this forum, like more camber on the rear than on the front, sway bars only on front others sway bar only on rear, zero toe, toe in etc etc etc....so I have no idea where to start from. I learned from my previous experince that I would love to make as less mistake as possible, because every mistake cost money and I dont want to try all the possibilities available. (ive done this before and im too old for this now)

so, before I start my questions, I would like to say that I am moderate to agressive driver, I like to trail brake every turn I can all the way to the apex and get on gas asap even if its 3% of gas but focus that on/after apex, I am on gas no matter what. on corner exit, I go agressive, but not to the point that I need to counter like crazy, but sometimes I do little counter-steer. I thought I had to explain a little since every driver has its style. so here you go:

you car has:
aero?
tires:r-comps/slicks/street?
Wheel size and offset + tire size + spacer/no spacer?
sway bars?
what coilover?
spring rate?
camber and toe?
tire pressure HOT?
Any setting you tried that you would advise me not to?
Care to give a brief explanation why you like your setting? Entry corner/apex/exit, fast corners, etc etc?

Thank you very much! And hope to get as many track freaks as possible to give their 2 cents and maybe this can be a sticker!
1.) Suspension : I'm running MCS 2-way external reservoir coil overs with 750 front / 450 rear spring rates ( rear is converted to a coilover so that would equal a 900 pound spring on stock set up. ) To do this I welded support to the strut towers and tied my roll cage into it. Running -3.4 camber front ,o toe , -2.2 rear, .14 total toe in, with camber plates up front and turner adjustable arms in the rear. Fantastic set up and literally transforms how the car handles.

2.) Wheels: I'm running apex EC-7's 18x9 front 18x10 rear with 265/35/18's 285/30/18's Hankook TD's or Michelin sport cups . No room to run a wider wheel or tire front or rear without a spacer.And no square is not faster with my power and suspension setup lol. Tire pressure for the TD's and Sport cups are best around 35 hot.

3.) Brakes : PFC BBK Z 45 front , Z32 rear with PFC 08 endurance pads.

4.) Differential : 3.82 final drive with a Diffsonline 12 clutch racing diff 30/60 lockup

5.) Aero I have a rear diffuser and thats it for now but have several Varis bits inbound

6.)Engine : running ESS VT -525 with a custom 34 row Setrab oil cooler, and Zionsville radiator for track cooling.

7.) Lots of small details that i won't go into fits in the various category like bushings, motor /tranny mounts etc.

Here is the set up in action in a PCA advance group .

Awesome set up!
I am thinking of going with mcs too... Still undecided if I go with jrz or mcs..... Spring rates looks nice... I am going for same rates too
Thank you for sharing
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      01-20-2016, 07:09 PM   #13
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gmd2003 -

I love what you've done with your car man!

I'm actually going to tie in the rear struts with a bar as well. Could you post some photos of your cage?
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      01-20-2016, 07:17 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longress
gmd2003 -

I love what you've done with your car man!

I'm actually going to tie in the rear struts with a bar as well. Could you post some photos of your cage?
Sure here you go.
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      01-21-2016, 08:06 AM   #15
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Well done sir

It makes sense that you went this route with the coil overs in the rear and that is some serious beef that you built on that tower!

My plan is to tie into the tower at the shock mount similar to what you see in the front then bring something behind and to the side of the rear partition. Ideally I would like to be as close to the seat as you are but at 6'3" this can't happen. It started out as an idea for a harness bar but once I stripped the trunk I found that the right rear shock tower had damage it had been pushed inside slightly and somewhat concave right at the top of the mount a left over issue from the previous owner that had been in an accident and had the car half assed repaired. I never pulled a carfax so this lesson hurts.
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      01-25-2016, 11:01 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longress View Post
Well done sir

It makes sense that you went this route with the coil overs in the rear and that is some serious beef that you built on that tower!

My plan is to tie into the tower at the shock mount similar to what you see in the front then bring something behind and to the side of the rear partition. Ideally I would like to be as close to the seat as you are but at 6'3" this can't happen. It started out as an idea for a harness bar but once I stripped the trunk I found that the right rear shock tower had damage it had been pushed inside slightly and somewhat concave right at the top of the mount a left over issue from the previous owner that had been in an accident and had the car half assed repaired. I never pulled a carfax so this lesson hurts.
Well you can get close I'm 6'1 . Sorry about the unknown damage , that sucks.
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