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      11-26-2013, 09:13 PM   #23
3002 tii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sipman View Post
My question is: is it possible to create a bulge that goes over the center console, instead of through it?
I'll try and describe what I mean. The pipes are about as close to the bulkhead as possible behind each of the seats, would you be able to build a "C" shape to attach the left and right sides to each other but have it come over the center console.
My first impression is that this could be a weak point in structure in the event of a squeeze crash, but if it was strong enough, it might be able to counteract that force. But my impression is the rollover event is more what a cage is for.
I'm really just thinking aloud, and no nothing about building cages so figured I'd put my thoughts out there to see what others think.

Really, I know bolt in cages are frowned upon, but I'd love to buy one that I can return the car to stock if I so felt the urge. It almost looks like if the bulge idea could work, then you could fab up a front section, and the two rear legs could bolt into the floor and into the half cage
There's a company that makes bolt-in cages, just not sure it would pass tech inspection for most clubs.
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      11-26-2013, 09:24 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sipman View Post
My question is: is it possible to create a bulge that goes over the center console, instead of through it?
I'll try and describe what I mean. The pipes are about as close to the bulkhead as possible behind each of the seats, would you be able to build a "C" shape to attach the left and right sides to each other but have it come over the center console.
My first impression is that this could be a weak point in structure in the event of a squeeze crash, but if it was strong enough, it might be able to counteract that force. But my impression is the rollover event is more what a cage is for.
I'm really just thinking aloud, and no nothing about building cages so figured I'd put my thoughts out there to see what others think.

Really, I know bolt in cages are frowned upon, but I'd love to buy one that I can return the car to stock if I so felt the urge. It almost looks like if the bulge idea could work, then you could fab up a front section, and the two rear legs could bolt into the floor and into the half cage
Bolt in cages are known to pierce through the floor in a roll, so if you want it to be useful, you will want to weld in either type to the floor.
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      11-27-2013, 06:48 PM   #25
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What if you welded a plate to the floor to bolt into? The carpet could hide it in the event you wanted to revert to stock and the new owner wouldn't be any wiser, unless you disclosed it.
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      11-28-2013, 12:07 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seank View Post
Bolt in cages are known to pierce through the floor in a roll, so if you want it to be useful, you will want to weld in either type to the floor.
I can not disagree with this statement.

The real question is how the car is going to be used.
o fast street car
o driver education/ fast street car
o a car built for a specific series

If I saw that car in tech for a "DE"/ club track event, I would not hesitate to pass it right through. Why? Because it is a shit ton better than nothing.

I have a 944 Turbo that has been on the radar gun at 178mph with a bolt in roll bar built by myself and a friend of mine. Passing GT 3's is fun. I have not died, yet.

It all really comes down to one thing, what is the sanctioning body, and does it meet the spec.

I would be proud to have that rollbar in my Z4M. Better than a nice job, it appears to be excellent.
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      11-28-2013, 10:56 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sipman View Post
What if you welded a plate to the floor to bolt into? The carpet could hide it in the event you wanted to revert to stock and the new owner wouldn't be any wiser, unless you disclosed it.
I think that it would work and its better than nothing. I just wanted you to know that there are one negative to only a bolt in, which is why some roll bar fabricators don't make bolt ins.
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      12-02-2013, 11:01 PM   #28
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another half cage design

In response to Sipman's question: "My question is: is it possible to create a bulge that goes over the center console, instead of through it?"

The answer is Yes! I had a custom half-cage built last year. The driver's seat is on sliders, the passenger's is not. I had to take the sliders off the passenger's seat to fit the mount for the extinguisher. I am thinking of taking the sliders off the driver's seat to I can lower it by abt 3/4" (I am 6'2")

Here are a couple of pics I snapped. The interior is a bit dusty i know. The c-clamp on the center column is for the forward facing camera and mic, (there is a mic cover I wedged between the hoop and the roof for the sake of the pic) whereas the blue tape/c-clamp on the passenger's side is for the driver's view camera.

The main hoop is welded to the floor and tied in to the rear shock tower.
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      12-03-2013, 01:26 PM   #29
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Wow really nice! Who did your cage?
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      12-03-2013, 04:00 PM   #30
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Cage Install

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Wow really nice! Who did your cage?
The work was done by a guy in Eastern Mass by the name of Chris Howard. He did the custom bends and welds. He did another Z4M with a similar design, and designs/builds cages for spec Miatas, so he was used to working in tight spaces. He was the only guy up in this area willing to do the cage while keeping the interior.

I have nothing but praise for this guy. He only works on one car at a time, so the turn around time was a couple weeks after droppping it off. He offered to trailer it up to HMS for the seat and harness install, and his price was VERY reasonable, esp given all the work he had to do.

I can PM his email if anyone is interested.
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      12-04-2013, 12:52 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fullerra View Post
The work was done by a guy in Eastern Mass by the name of Chris Howard. He did the custom bends and welds. He did another Z4M with a similar design, and designs/builds cages for spec Miatas, so he was used to working in tight spaces. He was the only guy up in this area willing to do the cage while keeping the interior.

I have nothing but praise for this guy. He only works on one car at a time, so the turn around time was a couple weeks after droppping it off. He offered to trailer it up to HMS for the seat and harness install, and his price was VERY reasonable, esp given all the work he had to do.

I can PM his email if anyone is interested.
I'd like his info please
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      12-04-2013, 01:14 PM   #32
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As we can see, everything can be done. It is totally possible to have a good bolt in bar/cage if done correctly. Were I see a problem in most cases is that people who want bolt ins want to do the least poissible modification to the car and so some of those bars are only bolted to existing OEM holes and bolts, sometimes on top of the carpet. This is a poor design that can fail. A proper bolt in must be as strong as a welded design, I rarely do bolt ins but if I do I refer to my bible: http://www.fia.com/sites/default/fil...%282013%29.pdf

When I built Tonybest bar I did not want any compromise, so it is built so that one day a front section can be added and it will pass tech anywhere (used the FIA standards for the back part), I also considered the space, that why the bar is a bit behind the b pillard. So no funky bended tubes.

Fullerra bar is nice for a compromise setup and will most likely do what's it's supposed to, but I personally would not build a bar that is not made and based on racing rule books, welded or bolt in. I recognize that something is better than nothing.

I know I'm hardcore but I don't f?*k around when it comes to safety. (that is a totally personal comment and I don't take anything away from any cage builder/fabricators)
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      12-05-2013, 05:10 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fullerra View Post
The work was done by a guy in Eastern Mass by the name of Chris Howard. He did the custom bends and welds. He did another Z4M with a similar design, and designs/builds cages for spec Miatas, so he was used to working in tight spaces. He was the only guy up in this area willing to do the cage while keeping the interior.

I have nothing but praise for this guy. He only works on one car at a time, so the turn around time was a couple weeks after droppping it off. He offered to trailer it up to HMS for the seat and harness install, and his price was VERY reasonable, esp given all the work he had to do.

I can PM his email if anyone is interested.
i have the same cage in my car. the welds are great, everything seems to be symmetrical (i.e. meeting at the same position on each side), very sturdy, no rattles, and looks beautiful.

do you mind giving some more info on the fire extinguisher you have? did you just bolt it to the floor or is there a universal mount you're using?
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      12-05-2013, 11:13 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by zubydafa View Post
i have the same cage in my car. the welds are great, everything seems to be symmetrical (i.e. meeting at the same position on each side), very sturdy, no rattles, and looks beautiful.

do you mind giving some more info on the fire extinguisher you have? did you just bolt it to the floor or is there a universal mount you're using?
Did you ship the car to him or drive up and fly back?
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      12-05-2013, 11:41 AM   #35
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Quote:
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Did you ship the car to him or drive up and fly back?
i wrecked my last mcoupe 4 months back. in september i found this car and the previous owner had the cage done by chris. the quality shows, it's nearly identical to the pics posted by fullerra.
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      12-05-2013, 12:22 PM   #36
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Thanks, I'm going to reach out to OP's cage builder and see if it's practical for me to send my car north.
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      12-05-2013, 07:46 PM   #37
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The extinguisher was installed as it is required to participate in hill climbs up here in NH. The extinguisher is from hms motorsport and has a universal bracket. Its bolted to a boomerang shaped extinguisher mounting plate i bought at vac motorsport in philly. The mounting plate has holes and fits on the bolts for the seat.
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      12-06-2013, 06:39 AM   #38
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The extinguisher was installed as it is required to participate in hill climbs up here in NH. The extinguisher is from hms motorsport and has a universal bracket. Its bolted to a boomerang shaped extinguisher mounting plate i bought at vac motorsport in philly. The mounting plate has holes and fits on the bolts for the seat.
Sounds like the one VAC sells...
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      04-29-2014, 03:37 PM   #39
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I finally tried the car at a track event last weekend. (Mosport (CTMP) with Trillium BMWCC).

Car is even stiffer around corners. Seat and harness are a great mod. Did not check laptimes but know that I was quicker based on other "opponents" I usually track "agains't"

I did not have to re-set myself in my seat after the very fast corners that are at this track. So it did exactly what it was supposed to do.

Hans, seat and harness adds easily an extra 4 minutes to strap myself in the car before a session.
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      05-01-2014, 03:54 AM   #40
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this has given me a very good indication that something very similar could work in the roadster but mimicking the height of the stock roll hoops, this would allow harness fitment and could extend through for the rear strut tops, cutting through the rear bulkhead, it would need to take a different route obviously but could definitely work, just need someone talented like the OPs guy..

very cool.
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