Depreciation on Mcoupes

[tekmoe]

It's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Pretty simple.

[bluecobra]

I think that the low production numbers will outweigh the point about few people looking for them. I was looking for an E46M3 for almost a year, looking for the right color combo and condition. I didn't even know that BMW put the S54 in the Z4. I stumbled over one one day and that was when I expanded my search looking for an MCoupe as well.

I have had 2 E46 M3s and never had anyone in the back seat. No kids for me and I have 3 other vehicles to drive groups around in as well. The M Coupe was the perfect car for me.

I paid 25k for my 2006 with 80k on it. Loaded with everything except nav and ext leather. It looks and drives like it only has 20k on it. But it has about 17k in aftermarket parts on it. So I just drive it, no need to fool with modding it. I did remove the Dinan monoball RTABs as on a bumpy road sometimes my vision would blur it was so "connected" to the road. Talk about tight.......

[gtMc]

Originally Posted by The HACK

The problem with trying to buy this vehicle is, there's only 1,7xx of them around in North America. The problem with trying to sell this vehicle is, there's only so many people who wants this car and those who want it, probably already has it.

Yes this is true. & as you mentioned, there may only be a few buyers of it, but if there is still lesser supply than the already muted demand, prices will still rise or stay the same as you state below:

Originally Posted by The HACK

So the limited numbers of cars available on the market has artificially kept the value inflated. In the mean time, it's darn near impossible for any seller to attract a buyer because, well, there just isn't that many of them around either.

^But its not impossible to extract a buyer at the right price. and buyers will surface when prices are at the right level. Otherwise the seller sits (a-la housing market!). On this forum, there are some very proud sellers (rightfully so, we take care of our cars) and hence healthy asking prices. an Educated buyer will probably correctly feel he/she is getting a good car from a seller here, and you get what you pay for (or you should anyway). Anyone who has been sitting on a car they are trying to sell for more than 2 or 3 months needs to do one thing: lower the price or wait for stronger demand.

Originally Posted by The HACK

Let's face it. Practical this car is not, especially not compared to other offerings out there. The E46 M3 is significantly cheaper (an '05/06 in good shape and low mileage probably goes for $24,000 tops) and offers 2 more seats, a real trunk, and the same or near same performance AND SMG to boot. If you're looking for 2 seaters, Cayman Ses are in the same price range, easier to find, arguably sexier, and frankly...A better performer (in the right hands).

^ good example of how practicality has nothing to do with a cars worth to potential buyers. is a Bugatti that sat at the bottom of a Swiss lake for decades - practical? no but it was worth Hundreds of Thousands to the right buyer! An e46 M3 is cheaper because... Yep there is more supply than demand.

I have a friend who is torn right now between a cayman S and an M coupe. He literally cannot decide, and while those things you mention about the cayman are true, they are still a little more expensive in general, and they are alot more expensive to maintain, and thats also impacting his decision. its one's expected total cost of ownership that they probably consider. And he ultimately loves the rarity of the M vs the cayman. Caymans are a dime a dozen around here. A yellow one could be mistaken for a taxi cab - lol.

Hack, BTW you make excellent points, I am just elaborating, not disagreeing.

Originally Posted by tekmoe

It's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Pretty simple.

Bingo. Gosh I coulda saved like 20 minutes typing what I wrote... hahaha.

[David70]

I bought mine last week. $30,500 with 31k miles. Premium and heated seats, excellent condition.

I don't see how making what we paid for them known will change anything. When I see what you paid two or three years ago it doesn't change what I will have to pay today to get one.

If you want one you can go on Autotrader and see what 20-30 are listed for and go from there. I was willing to spend from $28k-$34k but wanted less than 40k miles, certain colors, condition. I also don't think you can get reliable data from this forum on where prices have been and where they are going. Maybe and educated guess.

[gtMc]

Originally Posted by David70

I don't see how making what we paid for them known will change anything. When I see what you paid two or three years ago it doesn't change what I will have to pay today to get one.

If you want one you can go on Autotrader and see what 20-30 are listed for and go from there. I was willing to spend from $28k-$34k but wanted less than 40k miles, certain colors, condition. I also don't think you can get reliable data from this forum on where prices have been and where they are going. Maybe and educated guess.

I hear ya, its a very debatable issue indeed, and I went back and forth for a month on it. But I decided (and asked a few other members as well) that published prices might suppress the potential for price inflation by creating a psycological 'cap' that one is willing to pay for the car, this in turn helps buyers more than sellers. and prices at best would flatten out or decline. Now in reality they have actually risen in the last 6 months.

And as a former buyer, I had to do the same thing you mentioned above (I created a scatterplot-LOL) to analyze the price for the car I wanted. I too paid a premium for a top grade speciman.

[gtMc]

I propose this scenario in a hypothetical price inflationary environment:

Its May 2012.
Vin# ABC123 is for sale, ask is $37,000.

Scenario A)
Public info available:
Perfect condition
20,000 miles
Loaded
Other similar cars are also for sale today around $35-$38k.
You find out this car was for sale 6 months ago with 15,000 miles on it for $38k.

Scenario B)
Public info available:
Perfect condition
20,000 miles
Loaded
Other similar cars are also for sale today around $35-$38k.
You find out this car SOLD 6 months ago with 15,000 miles on it for $35.5k.

I ask: As a potential buyer of this car, under what scenario are you more likely to pay $36k ($1000 under asking and still mid market of $35k-$38k) for this car, scenario A or scenario B? Keep in mind in B, you know the car sold 6 months earlier with less miles, for $35.5k...

[Big Red]

As an example, let's take the bond market.

No transparency for the average retail buyer. The dealer can get much higher prices because he know best what they're really worth because he has more price information since he is regularly in the market and sees the real prices people pay, not just bids and asks.

As an M coupe owner on these boards you will know more about the market than most buyers. You know from your firends what they really paid and what they sold for. This creates the same information asymmetry. You will be able to use your superior knowledge about the market to extract a better price than a noob.

FYI - I'm a noob and am lurking to learn about the market so I can get a better price!

[David70]

Debatable but as someone that just bought one I would say it is more like -

You look at what is for sale, see some sitting for a long time at $33k - $38k (depending on miles and condition), see others for less but with either higher miles, less desirable colors, or issues, and some for $28k-$32k that are great cars and sell quickly. Based on cars I saw for sale, distance and condition, I decided what I was willing to pay. I don't think there is enough information on this forum for recent sales to change the overall market price. I also wonder how many come here that are looking for this car and how many buy it then come here, and how many never come here.

I would also say that some of the best examples go for above $35k, especially if they are close to the buyer.

[Caddyshk]

2006
Paid $70K (first ordered & delivered in Canada) - e46M3 was $80K
Purchased off Lease $39K - (3 years - had 18,000 miles)
Canada = Priceless

The wow factor the first few months was worth every nickle...

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by Caddyshk

.........

The wow factor the first few months was worth every nickle...

^ this

Definitely an interesting topic, but for me I could car less if the resale value is 25, 30, or 35k.
The smile I get every time I get behind the wheel is the only thing that matters

[Caddyshk]

[epbrown]

Originally Posted by gtMc

I have a friend who is torn right now between a cayman S and an M coupe. He literally cannot decide, and while those things you mention about the cayman are true, they are still a little more expensive in general, and they are alot more expensive to maintain, and thats also impacting his decision. its one's expected total cost of ownership that they probably consider. And he ultimately loves the rarity of the M vs the cayman. Caymans are a dime a dozen around here. A yellow one could be mistaken for a taxi cab - lol.

The Cayman is still running a bit more expensive than a similar mileage M Coupe, but the price/performance difference isn't as bad as it was when new. Shopping now, I'd still choose an M Coupe over a same-year Cayman because of the potential issues with the M96 engine - the M97 with DFI didn't start until mid-2008, when Z4MC production was pretty much done. I'll concede I think the risk is smaller than many internet alarmists, but I'd be less comfortable owning a 987CS for as long as I plan to own my M Coupe.

A big portion of TCO tends to be depreciation and I think the Z4MC will hold its value as well as the Z3MC. If the 987s follow the same curve as the 986s, that will be a siginificant difference in value over time. Some Cayman owners think it will do better, as they're more rare than the Boxsters (~30k or so Caymans sold so far, I've read).

[KevinM]

Interesting thread.

I bought a new M coupe in 2007, with the "trunk money" lowering the price to (if i recall correctly) 51K. I decided to lease because of an additional lease deal at the time with intent to purchase after this. Might have not been the best deal, but it was at my local dealer. Fast forward, dealer wrecks car during a service visit - never have I been so glad the car was leased. Thus back on the market for a replacement. Prices on the coupes were all over the place. It was almost palpable - some dealers/individuals knew what they had, others did not.

I was looking for a very specific car, so when my one-owner example with 9K miles popped up last fall for 37.5K, I did not hesitate (much!). Negotiated to $35K (a very fair price in my opinion) and put another $2500 in to make the car literally as new.

As we go forward, the market is likely to remain high as most of these cars are owned by enthusiasts who DO know what they have.

[jophish17]

I could see the value being fairly consistent at 30K give or take. However, remember that a Honda Accord started out at 15K ten years ago, and now it starts over 22K. So while the dollar amount may be the same, these is still some less explicit depreciation due to inflation.

Still, I'll take that over loss of value due to inflation AND general used car depreciation.

[chickdr]

Originally Posted by KevinM

Interesting thread.
I was looking for a very specific car, so when my one-owner example with 9K miles popped up last fall for 37.5K, I did not hesitate (much!). Negotiated to $35K (a very fair price in my opinion) and put another $2500 in to make the car literally as new.

Wait- you spent $35K on a 9,000 mile car and had to put $2,500 into it to get it up to par? What did it need with only 9K on the clock?

I bought almost the same as you when I got my 06 in 5/09 with 9,600 miles. The only thing is needed was a couple of small plastic trim pieces which the PO had not bothered to replace when they fell off(well I also got ///M floor mats since the car had Z4 mats).

[danblank]

I'll add my purchase info for craps and laughs, seeing that I just bought mine about a month ago.

07 M Coupe with all options except extended leather
38,5K miles
TiAg with black roof and black rims
Inspection II due in 3K miles
Tires with 25% tread remaining

Utah Dealer was asking $29,995
Car had been on lot for a few months (or more) and dealer was advertising that it had to go
Carfax was clean with original purchase in California then (I think) sold to the dealership at auction last year

I offered $28K and dealer met in the middle at $29K.
I live in Washington but registered in Alaska (have to love the military clause) my total with shipping to the Tacoma Area and temp tags from Utah and other dealer fees was $29,7K

I have been wanting to get an Mcoupe since about 2002 so I have been looking at the market since then. I was using Autotrader and Cars.com to gauge the market and was on there pretty solid since about November of 2011 when I knew getting a coupe was a reality. My max I was wanting to go was $33K. I almost pulled the trigger on 3 other cars. One in Arkansas (07 Red with 42K miles, Dealer consignment listed at $32,5K, talked down to $31K, shipping was going to be $1,200 and InspectionII was due in 5K). One in Central California listed for $29,999 (07 Black with black rims with 42K miles, private sale, I offered full price and I'd pick it up, sale fell through because he decided he was losing too much money on it) and One in Southern California (07 Black stock with extended leather and 41K miles, InspectionII complete, listed for $32K, no budge on price)

I would assume that most of the people buying these have a very similar story. This isn't a car you just happen to find on a dealer's lot and decide to buy. I'm planning on keeping my eye on offering prices but only for my own satisfaction. I hope to have this car for the rest of my life.

Having owned and driven the car for the past month, I wouldn't change a thing. It is a little tough to get used to all the thumbs up and stares I get on the freeway. I don't think the people in Caymans are getting those.

[gtMc]

Originally Posted by chickdr

Wait- you spent $35K on a 9,000 mile car and had to put $2,500 into it to get it up to par? What did it need with only 9K on the clock?

I bought almost the same as you when I got my 06 in 5/09 with 9,600 miles. The only thing is needed was a couple of small plastic trim pieces which the PO had not bothered to replaced when they fell off(well I also got ///M floor mats since the car had Z4 mats).

i did the same thing that KevinM did. in my case it was a trip to the body shop to take out the most minor imperfections ( a few modest dings that most people wouldnt notice and a front bumper respray). didnt spend $2,500 yet but probably will get there if a clear bra goes on it soon. just wanted it as close to new as possible. Funny chickdr, mine was also missing a few of those plastic trim circle tabs in the interior - replaced under warranty of course.

[txz4]

okay, ill blow everyone's minds.

I bought my M in summer 2011 i believe. Its an 06 and had 12,000 miles. I went back and forth with the guy and ended up walking away with my pockets only 28,500 lighter. It looked as it did off the line with the exception of a small gash on the front bumper and three scratches on the windscreen, i repaired the gash on the bumper but there wasnt much i could do with the rear windscreen.

I sold my z4 coupe for only a little bit less then i bought the M coupe for.


Its only worth what someone will pay for it, when people dont let these cars go the buyer has to be fine paying more than he would have previously. Due to this i could easily sell my car for more now, with twice the miles, than what i paid back then... If only i was planning to ever part with it

[KevinM]

Originally Posted by chickdr

Wait- you spent $35K on a 9,000 mile car and had to put $2,500 into it to get it up to par? What did it need with only 9K on the clock?

I bought almost the same as you when I got my 06 in 5/09 with 9,600 miles. The only thing is needed was a couple of small plastic trim pieces which the PO had not bothered to replaced when they fell off(well I also got ///M floor mats since the car had Z4 mats).

I bought from the original owner, so it had not been "conditioned" by a dealership (I wanted to do things to my standards!). I went through everything on the car. The car had front plates which we don't need in AZ so the holes had to go and there was some minor curb rash on the fangs that needed repair before the skid plates were put on. There was some wear on the steering wheel trim pieces by the buttons so those were replaced. Minor curb rash on two wheels was repaired. ZHP shifter was put on and the CDV was removed. Z4 mats replaced by M mats. 2 small dents (and I do mean small!) were pulled. Battery was replaced (which I wanted done as obviously the car had not been driven much). BMW factory alarm system was installed. Finally, the car had a full seats-out, wheels off detail by the best detailers in Arizona: clay, Zanio Z-PC, three coats of Zaino Z2, full engine/interior/underside detail.

All if it was pretty minor stuff and not readily apparent to casual examination of the car, but I really wanted the car to be as new. I have to say, the end result was spectacular.

[chickdr]

Now I see. Mine did not have any curb rash, dents, fang damage, or a front plate. Guess I was lucky. I just had to clean it to my standards(I do my own detailing). I probably spent 1K on all the goodies I wanted(all weather mats, trunk mat, M strut covers, stubby antenna, RPI skid plates, CDV delete, ceramic pads, UUC transmission bushings and LED look lights).

[850tgul]

Bought mine in mid 2010 with 13k miles on it. Just sold it with 22k miles for 2k more than I paid in 2010. Nuff said. The future market is bright for the Z4M Coupe.

[philippelyp]

Originally Posted by gtMc

I propose this scenario in a hypothetical price inflationary environment:

Its May 2012.
Vin# ABC123 is for sale, ask is $37,000.

Scenario A)
Public info available:
Perfect condition
20,000 miles
Loaded
Other similar cars are also for sale today around $35-$38k.
You find out this car was for sale 6 months ago with 15,000 miles on it for $38k.

Scenario B)
Public info available:
Perfect condition
20,000 miles
Loaded
Other similar cars are also for sale today around $35-$38k.
You find out this car SOLD 6 months ago with 15,000 miles on it for $35.5k.

I ask: As a potential buyer of this car, under what scenario are you more likely to pay $36k ($1000 under asking and still mid market of $35k-$38k) for this car, scenario A or scenario B? Keep in mind in B, you know the car sold 6 months earlier with less miles, for $35.5k...

Neither. At $35k you are in Maserati territory in term of price (Coupe or GranSport, 410hp Ferrari engine, half of them are garage queens). An M Coupe has to be below $30k to make sense.