snow driving question

[veryhuman]

Just had 40 cm of snow.. was out for a little driving, i have all season tires. the car slipped plenty, but when its going uphill the back end always tend to swing to the right while i try to climb a hill. Is this normal? Or uneven wear of tires, or some other problem?

[Mikewarlover]

its just because u get no grip from those all season tires samething happens to me u live in toronto so u should really get some snow tires.

[veryhuman]

Yea, for sure should look into winter tires. I just thought its odd to always swing one way, and never the other way, maybe I should lose some weight..

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by veryhuman

Just had 40 cm of snow.. was out for a little driving, i have all season tires. the car slipped plenty, but when its going uphill the back end always tend to swing to the right while i try to climb a hill. Is this normal? Or uneven wear of tires, or some other problem?

Most roads have a crown or camber that falls away to the edge, when the tyre looses traction, it will follow this camber.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by aerobod

Most roads have a crown or camber that falls away to the edge, when the tyre looses traction, it will follow this camber.

Yes, in both of my cars (Mustang in snow and Zed on water) when the traction breaks it is always swinging to the right unless I am taking a right hand turn

Pretty normal IMO... just make sure you don't lose so much momentum that you are not moving except from side to side... happened a couple times to me in my Mustang and having to slowly slide backwards down an icy hill is no fun!

[3002 tii]

if going up hill, turn traction OFF. just remember to turn on when you get to normal elevation or your back end will be sliding everywhere.

was going onto an on-ramp and saw this lady in a new g35 peeling out everwhere but getting nowhere. me and 2 strangers got out and offered to push her car up. it went nowhere. told her keep wheel straight and turn traction off. next thing you know, car gets up fine and i'm buried in a foot of black snow :T

[koala]

Indeed, I turn off my traction control in most winter conditions. The throttle is a much easier way to control the car, IMO.

I have been told by people far more educated on the mechanical aspects of cars than I am, that an LSD also favours the back end stepping out to a particular side (in the case of this car, the passenger side).

If you had an open differential it would be less predictable.

Anyway your biggest issue is the all season tires. They become hard as hockey pucks at the types of temperatures we're seeing right now across Canada.

Even my winter tires mounted on the OEM 18" wheels are still not completely adequate in some of our conditions here in Edmonton, but if you drive carefully it's fine. The sad part is that my M Coupe hasn't been above 3,000 RPM in over a week!

[rc'Z]

Not that anyone asked in this thread, but the Bridgestone Blizzak winter tires have always been absolutely wonderful on small cars with wide tires. It is hard to believe how well they work on hard pack and ice. HOWEVER, as performance tires on dry pavement, not to safe, you have to drive with caution with our cars.

[koala]

rc'Z - which Blizzak tires are "wonderful on small cars with wide tires?" Bridgestone makes many models and some of them are good, some of them are terrible.

I had 245/40/17 Blizzak LM22's on my '04 S2000 and they were excellent on clear roads, even at low temperatures... but on ice and snow they were pretty poor. My previous tires, which were a "budget" model (Toyo Garit HT) were significantly better.

I find these Dunlop Wintersport M3's to be a better tire in poor road conditions, and this is with an 18" tire on the M Coupe.

[rc'Z]

Thanks Koala

[Rick Hunter]

Curious, koala, you don't get any clearance issues with the amount of snowfall in Edmonton?

Either case... for driving your M during a real winter. I was there last week and boy was it bitchin' cold.

I've got Dunlop M3's on my M as well, but won't see anything close to what you see up in Oil Country. The M3's handle quite well in wet conditions too.

Previously, I had some experience with Nokian Hakkapeliita tires (up in Canada) and they held up well too.

[double0jimb0]

For no other good reason than to say I did it once, I drove to Vail and back from Denver yesterday. The drive home was seeing pretty heavy snowfall and the chain/snow tire law was in effect. The left lane was plowed pretty well, with only a really thin layer of slippery ice, and the right lane had a couple of inches of chopped up road slush. Between the two options, the left lane felt much safer, which I have found is not always the case when driving other cars, SUVs. In the right lane slush, the wide tires seemed to pontoon on top of the slush and the car was always squeeming around, quickly dropping confidence, I did not feel comfortable driving over 35-40 mph, I was constantly correcting the car from charting a course off the road. In my ol' Jetta with much narrower tires, I would avoid the unknown of black ice on cleared pavement, instead staying in the slush, as it gives something for the tires to track in. On the M Coupe with the dunlop wintersports, the sipping on the tires gave remarkably good traction on the ice, and the car provides so much feedback, you know immediately when you start to slip. A couple times I had to drop to 5th to climb a hill, and even that tall of a gear would break the end loose at 1.5k RPMs, those moments got the adrenaline going. I kept in 6th whenever possible. And to caution, in low gears, it is very easy to lock up the rears if you come off the gas too much. But all said and done, made it home in one piece, and I am sure I surprised a hell of a lot of SUVs blowing by them uphill in a little 2 seater coupe.

[veryhuman]

Seems like everyone's soldiering on. Have a happy and safe holidays guys!

[koala]

Originally Posted by Rick Hunter

Curious, koala, you don't get any clearance issues with the amount of snowfall in Edmonton?

Either case... for driving your M during a real winter. I was there last week and boy was it bitchin' cold.

I've got Dunlop M3's on my M as well, but won't see anything close to what you see up in Oil Country. The M3's handle quite well in wet conditions too.

Previously, I had some experience with Nokian Hakkapeliita tires (up in Canada) and they held up well too.

I don't find clearance to be an issue, it's just a case of being aware of your surroundings, which in turn probably makes for a safer driver anyway (and at 24 years old, insurance is expensive enough, so paying extra attention in crappy road conditions is definitely important for me!).

Always take curbs and such at an angle, but that's really no different than summer time.

The Hakkapeliita's are apparently a "hardcore" winter tire... although I don't believe they're available in the 18" sizing for the M Coupe. That being said if I buy out this car after the lease is done I may mount some 17" wheels/tires next winter, but we'll see what happens.

You can probably almost get away with summer tires year round there, no? I know Vancouver got dumped on with snow the last few days, did Seattle as well? Although having the winters on your car is always a safe choice if you do daily drive it year round, even when the temps rarely get below freezing.

It's definitely extremely cold... my gas mileage has been terrible the last 10+ days as I've resorted to letting the car warm up for 3-4 minutes before leaving work

[Rick Hunter]

Originally Posted by koala

I don't find clearance to be an issue, it's just a case of being aware of your surroundings, which in turn probably makes for a safer driver anyway (and at 24 years old, insurance is expensive enough, so paying extra attention in crappy road conditions is definitely important for me!).

Always take curbs and such at an angle, but that's really no different than summer time.

The Hakkapeliita's are apparently a "hardcore" winter tire... although I don't believe they're available in the 18" sizing for the M Coupe. That being said if I buy out this car after the lease is done I may mount some 17" wheels/tires next winter, but we'll see what happens.

You can probably almost get away with summer tires year round there, no? I know Vancouver got dumped on with snow the last few days, did Seattle as well? Although having the winters on your car is always a safe choice if you do daily drive it year round, even when the temps rarely get below freezing.

It's definitely extremely cold... my gas mileage has been terrible the last 10+ days as I've resorted to letting the car warm up for 3-4 minutes before leaving work

I'd say NO, but it seems like everyone around here's driving on bald all-season tires. I've seen way too many people on the road the last few days just a slippin' and a slidin'. Yep, Seattle got almost a foot over the weekend. Aside from the unusual weather, Seattle rarely dips below freezing (~ 2C lows, 8C highs in winter).

...but I'll try to fool you with these pics taken today

[AlanL]

We have about a foot on the ground in the Portland/Vancouver area and I have been driving my wife's X3 all week. I do have Pirelli SotoZero winter tires on my Z4 but since my wife didn't want to drive her X3 (with Dunlop M3's) I decided to play it safe. Lots of ice on our roads that is getting heavily rutted by folks driving with chains. I would bottom out on my daily commute drive in numerous places right now.

[GP20]

Wish I had gotten a set of snow tires. Been stuck at home for the last 6 days now.

Rick, Alan, how do those Dunlop M3's perform on ice? Tire-rack's having a close-out sale on them and I'm thinking about picking up a set. Thanks!

[AlanL]

The M3s are pretty good on the ice but once the ice starts getting into a rutted washboard surface like the Portland area is right now almost nothing short of studs or chains are really going to keep you on the road.

I drove back home from the coast last Friday and they were great on the snow/ice packed highway but the stuff we have in town right now is pretty nasty.

My favorite ice tire is the Nokian WR. I was able to drive on glare ice in my old Audi S4 a few years back when we got hit with freezing rain on streets I couldn't even stand up on. I don't know about sizing on those for most cars.

[Rick Hunter]

Fortunately I haven't had the chance to drive it in ice-sheet conditions yet. They do just fine in patchy ice areas and if you drive according to conditions they will get you to your destination in good time.

I managed to squeeze 225/45/18 winter tires all around with the OEM wheels. The 225 tire width is the absolute minimum that can be mounted on to the rear wheels.

I've been resisting taking the M out on days like these so I've been tossing around my AWD instead.

[AlanL]

Our streets are completely undrivable for my Z4 right now. There are ruts in the ice that are upwards of 4-6" deep right now and my Z4 would bottom out on the ice in the middle of the ruts. Happily there are no freezing temperatures in the forecast for the next week and lots of rain so maybe this will all finally melt off.

We set a record today for the most snow on the ground on Christmas day ever recorded in Vancouver since the 1800's.



(Disclaimer - this is not my artwork and I have no idea what city this shot came from)