Thinking about Vanos

[SaltyNC]

I've been away from the forum for a little while, and I'm starting to think about the vanos. I noticed that Beisan is in Raleigh, and my son is in college in Raleigh, and I'm outside of Charlotte. Do they do installs, themselves, or do they strictly sell parts?

Is there any kind of consensus on what is the best route to take, now? Any new options? Rebuild or replace? I don't feel qualified to do the repair myself, so that's out. There is an indy mechanic near me, but don't think he has any experience with S54 vanos swaps.

Salty

[yousefnjr]

I'm not sure if they can install for you, but here's a vote for their pump disk (and customer service). Absolutely no more 3k rattle, couldn't be happier with their solution. Their DIY guide is excellent as well.

[XMetal]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

I'm not sure if they can install for you, but here's a vote for their pump disk (and customer service). Absolutely no more 3k rattle, couldn't be happier with their solution. Their DIY guide is excellent as well.

Ditto. My engine have never been quieter after doing their upgrades

[mckenna4978]

What upgrades have you've done to the vanos system and how much $$$ does it run? Also was it preventative or necessary maintenance? What mileage? Thanks for the input...
McKenna

[XMetal]

Originally Posted by mckenna4978

What upgrades have you've done to the vanos system and how much $$$ does it run? Also was it preventative or necessary maintenance? What mileage? Thanks for the input...
McKenna

I did all the Beisan upgrades available for the S54 minus the solenoid coil pack - See this post => http://www.zpost.com/forums/showpost...&postcount=730

Did it at about 45K miles mostly for preventative work since I've seen reports of the tab(s) broken with various mileage. The price for the parts are all listed on Beisan's website. I bought all the parts and had a local enthusiast over on M3Forum did all the work for me at a very reasonable price (valve adjustments, fluid changes, hoses, etc).

[tominizer]

I've been pondering this work as well. I think I can get into it, but would rather have some sort of guru available to look over my shoulder. This would be deeper than I've dug before. Messing this up would be tragic.

[W///]

Originally Posted by tominizer

I've been pondering this work as well. I think I can get into it, but would rather have some sort of guru available to look over my shoulder. This would be deeper than I've dug before. Messing this up would be tragic.

This is one of the DIY's I'll not do myself. I'd rather pay someone to do it and watch over them. I've seen some YT videos on how to do all this, but I'm too chicken to tackle this one on my own.

[StickMon]

I put in a Dr. V rebuilt and I don't think I would recommend it.
It was a lot more beat up than I would have liked, and after a couple of years it just developed a leak in one of the piston caps.
I'm pretty sure he claims to use a new valve block and solenoid unit, but based on scratches and dings, I'm not so sure.

[86Zed]

Excuse my naivety, how well know is the Besian kit? I have seen mention of it here and on other E46 forums for the S54 and feel pretty confident that I will use it when the time comes.

Now, is there a real age or mileage on the car when I need to seriously consider this? What are the tell-tale signs - FYI I regularly complete small services myself, still have Indy doing Inspec I/II

[StickMon]

I replaced mine at about 118k miles.
Car was still running fine, I just figured it had a good run, and I wanted to replace the timing chain tensioner, so as long as it was coming off, I put a rebuilt back on.

I noticed while using compressed air to move the pistons, using my home-made switch box, that I could easily jog the pistons on the original Vanos, but when I did it installing the rebuilt, I nearly lost a finger.
Seals in the original must have been nearly shot.

Oh, and my exhaust hub broke at around 90k miles. Replaced it with the TurboToy/Dr. V C-300 hub.

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by 86Zed

Excuse my naivety, how well know is the Besian kit? I have seen mention of it here and on other E46 forums for the S54 and feel pretty confident that I will use it when the time comes.

Now, is there a real age or mileage on the car when I need to seriously consider this? What are the tell-tale signs - FYI I regularly complete small services myself, still have Indy doing Inspec I/II

If you hear an engine rattle around 2500-3000 rpm, that's the vanos hub tabs knocking around in the oil pump disk. From the factory, the holes in the oil pump disk are oversized, and there is too much play for the tabs. The beisan solution is to use a pump disk with smaller holes, while other companies use a hub with stronger (and bigger?) tabs. I'm not sure what the average age when kaboom is, but it's worth taking care of sooner rather than later IMO

A bonus to this is you'll be able to torque down any potentially loose hub bolts while you do this, which saves you from another catastrophic failure. Then you'll only have to worry about the rod bearings lol

[XMetal]

I would at least replace the upper chain guide at no more than 60K intervals. You can see from my post mentioned earlier how bad the upper chain guide got only at ~44K. So, if you're in there doing upper chain guide, mind as well take care of the VANOS stuffs.

[Vanne]

All good advise. I did my vanos at 200k kilometres mark. My seals were actually very very good, and had my pump tabs NDT with die , showed they were perfect, replaced the disc with the besian one, but notice no difference in sound, mine never really rattled.
The chain guide however was completely shot and about 3 cm of it missing from the end..
I'll show you a pic. Runs perfect now.. yeah so don't forget your chain guide if you do the vanos.

Remember... Chainguide!!! <---- cheap as chips, exy if it goes..

[XMetal]

Vanne,
So, the other end of the chain guide is no where to be found? Hope that it's probably somewhere in your oil pan and not get chewed up by the chain? Yikes!

[StickMon]

Yea, wow. Mine was only 1/2 way worn through.
On the upside, I don't know of any proven detonations due to chain guide failure.
There was one guy with an M3 that swore he skipped a tooth, but by the end of his repair thread it was looking like maybe not.
I do know from experience that as it wears the slack in the chain moves and throws off your cam timing, but probably not enough to where the Vanos can't compensate.

Judging from how mine wore, at least 3/4 of the thickness of Vanne's was converted to fine dust and thin flakes.
At some point the rest probably snapped off, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over where's it at.

Crazy thing is, they don't wear on the side the chain screams across, they wear on the backside, where the spring tensioner presses on them.
Matter of fact, I'm not even sure the spring tensioner presses directly on that guide. I think it presses on the next one down, that in turn presses on the one that wears out.
Another thing BMW designed on a Friday after lunch.

[DanFromTucson]

Originally Posted by Vanne

so don't forget your chain guide if you do the vanos.

1 word of advice for DIYers. When you put in the upper timing chain guide, it can slide either above or below the lower guide. I don't remember which is correct, but if you do it incorrectly, you won't be able to thread in your tensioner.

I had this wrong and didn't realize what the problem was. After taking the upper guide off and reinstalling several times (with a torque wrench), I actually snapped the timing chain guide bolt. This bolt is buried down in the head and not accessible with normal tools. I had to get my car towed to a mechanic who fabricated tools to get out the nub of the broken bolt.

My driveway is steep, so I couldn't get the car back in the garage disassembled. I ended up having the mechanic just finish installing the Vanos (which I had already rebuilt), the sprockets, etc. That 1 bolt set me back $1300, and gave me a few hundred grey hairs.

I say this partially to help any DIYers make sure to treat that bolt with kid gloves, and partially to let people on the fence know how wrong this procedure can go. I'm a pretty decent amateur mechanic, and I take my time. This is still a very involved process that can go badly. I *was* having fun with this whole procedure, and I found the Beisan kits to be very good until this 1 problem ruined my week. Definitely be extremely cautious if you attempt it!

Other disasters I've seen in other threads:

1. Dropping tools/parts in the crankcase when the timing chain is exposed. This could mean having to drop your oil pan, which is major surgery.
2. Breaking VANOS pistons and other delicate parts by dropping them.
3. Losing small parts of the pump disk assembly (springs and caps).

[SaltyNC]

Thanks for all the vanos tips. I definitely want this done sooner rather than later for peace of mind. Mine has gotten louder since I've owned the car the last year and a half. I've also had a strange thing happen a couple of times. Under fairly heavy acceleration, as I shift from 1st to 2nd, I get what seems like a complete loss of power for a second, then bam, power is back on. Do you think that could be related to the vanos? Thanks!

[StickMon]

Top guide goes over the top of of the lower guide.
You can see the notch in the lower guide where the tip of the top guide lives in this diagram.
Spring tensioner actually pushes on the top of the lower guide.

I had readjusted my cam timing a couple of times with the worn guide, so I still had to release the sprockets to get it back together with the new guide, and then time it all over again.

Other things that can go wrong:
My threads in the upper left side of the head for the bolt that holds the Vanos, and the accumulator line tab, are stripped. I have a 1/4-20 in there now, just snug. Needs an insert some day.
Stripped a couple of the bolts that hold the sprocket hubs to the camshafts.
I blame a previous "mechanic" for both of these issues.
They're 10.9. You can't just run up to Lowes and get a sack.
Luckily McMaster is less than an hour from me. Ran over there and got a set of 12.9.

Not sure what happens if you strip the threads those go into in the rings behind the camshaft flanges. Probably punt it to a shop to have the camshafts out.

[DanFromTucson]

Torque wrench is your friend in this process! The sprocket bolts and some of the Vanos bolts are (surprisingly) not torqued very tight.

Even with a torque wrench I managed to break the worst possible bolt, though maybe it's because I fatigued it by taking it on/off several times.

[Vanne]

Yeah. When doing the vanos and cams, the oil pan was pulled as well, and lo and behold, there was a bit of the chain guide. I already in advance ordered the whole set, not just the upper guide.. so the whole thing was a nil event for me, but just pointed it out, so as to not forget the guide chain.

[Our03z4]

Was telling my wife tonight it's about time for mine. Car acts kinda strange sometimes, tonight it was trying to stall at take off without heavy gas and idles slightly erratic, plus surges at 3k rpm.

[tominizer]

I'm finding that when I'm accelerating, around 5k RPM, there's a slight hesitation or "flattening", where it doesn't continue to pull through strongly on my M roadster. I had my buddy drive the car and he noticed it as well, although it's very slight. I sent Besian a message about it and they were unsure, given that I have only 90K km on the car. They said it would be unusual for this to be a VANOs issue, but not impossible. Anyways, so I'm still stumped on this one. Anyone else ever notice this?